Do we pull S18 from college?

Parent Cafe
61

@Trixy34 I think the important point is that the neuropsych. used a “survey” (questionnaire) with info from home, rather than an objective test, as the main part of the diagnosis. (I have seen a neuropsych play the radio while asking a kid to do a task, to test for ADHD, and then tell me that it isn’t valid since it is not a good mimicry of real life!)

I mainly wanted to suggest- regardless of diagnosis or no diagnosis- that some of the behaviors of the son suggest a problem that might be addressed with support of some kind. Doesn’t have to be meds. With or without a diagnosis, extra advising on time management and finishing tasks might help, or if the parents can afford it, hiring a coach (Landmark School can suggest one, and they often work online or by phone).

My own kid was diagnosed with ADHD at age 18. I knew something was wrong in high schooo, and I did have her evaluated. But no one told me how to get ADHD assessed and I found out later it was by questionnaire and not in the evaluation- that’s why I raised that point. The evaluation showed very slow processing and a learning disability based on a gap between “verbal and performance” but no mention of attention. Ugh.

Regarding meds…my kid generally cannot take ADHD stimulant meds because she also has bipolar 1 and stimulants can trigger mania. (The few times she has taken them the results in terms of papers have been stunning.)

The thing is, having the diagnosis just helped how we, and she, looked at her challenges. It helped her accept that she needed support (and accommodations, which she, like many, tended tor resist, but helped in a pinch) It confirmed my parental intuition that certain things were NOT her fault.

And our kid has made some changes to the way she approaches things based on the info provided by a diagnosis. It is really helpful, in general, to name a problem.

ps look up questionnaires- there are a gazillion online, for example:

for adult who might have ADHD https://add.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/adhd-questionnaire-ASRS111.pdf

for parent of child https://www.unitedpsychological.com/pdf/ADHA_inattentive_child.pdf

62

Slightly off topic, but how do you best handle a kid who has ADHD and exec functioning issues? My son had a full neuropsych workup sophomore year that showed while he’s incredibly bright, he does have ADHD and EF issues. He did not want to medicate. We fully supported that. He recently started EF coaching, which is helping, but progress is slow and costly, and at this point I don’t know what the outcome will be. I’m at a loss as to what else to do to help him. Dh and I are strongly considering medication at this point because he’s barely at a 3.0 gpa and the only thing he wants to do is become a civil engineer. We (husband, myself and son) are aware of how difficult that will be and have had conversations with him about alternate plans. I very much struggle with being supportive or realistic about his future. Dh and I considered putting him on meds for the rest of this school year (about 3 weeks) to see if that makes a difference, but how quickly do they even take effect? Any advice is more than welcome!

63

Half the fraternity boys at my kid’s college would happily head off to the beach without turning in papers if they didn’t fear the consequences. It may or may not be a diagnosis, or it may be immaturity. Regardless, he needs to fix it.

64

I suggest you lay out the situation, the stipulations, and ask him what he wants to do next.

If he wants to return to school, ask him what he is willing to do differently to achieve his goal of 3.0
GPA.

Don’t accept generic, vague answers. Keep asking questions until you get to specific details. Tutoring sessions, academic or executive function coaching, online calendar/planner. Etc.

Them comes the hardest part. You have to sit back and let him make his own choices. Succeed or fail on his own. If he fails, you are still his loving parents, so you remain compassionate as you ask him shat he is going to do next. He can choose student loans or drop out of school.

Best of luck to you.

65

@taverngirl For what it’s worth, with one of ours, there were clear executive function issues and possible ADHD visible to us and his teachers. In high school, kid refused to consider a formal diagnosis and meds, though we knew, as adults, his college prospects would be affected by his unwillingness to get a diagnosis. We concluded that maintaining a strong relationship with him through those tumultuous years was more important than a better looking transcript, so we did not force the issue of testing, meds etc. as frustrating as that was to watch. At the end of high school, a bit daunted by the future, he asked to be tested and yes, full work up showed kid was off the charts on some categories. He got meds, and learned how important they are to his ability to realize his potential. For us – and I’m not saying this is the right decision for every situation – maintaining trust and open communication between us took a front seat while stats and a “shiny” set of high school achievements, took a back seat.

66

Good that you know he doesn’t have ADHD.

He’s not the first bright kid to do poorly first year in college b/c of bad decision making. So natural consequences, yes. He’s obviously a bright kid and he can recover from this. I’d be sure to set that expectation of success with him – “We know you can do better, you know you can do better, make better choices or you will have consequence of leaving this college you like b/c you lost your scholarship. But we don’t expect that to happen b/c you can do this. Also, if you’d like, we’re hear to listen and help you think through your strategies for next semester.”

I’m sure you wouldn’t do this but don’t make it so dramatic ("You’re ruining your life!) that he starts to get even more in his own way by losing belief he can turn this around. That’s what can turn a bad situation into a dire one where he doesn’t get back on track b/c he loses confidence.

I would also look at see if there’s a student success center or resources and tell him to make appointment first week of school – maybe they can give him some concrete time management strategies that will click?

Final thought – do you think substances are involved? I know a guy from back in the day (don’t we all?) who lost a whole year of college b/c he stayed in his room and smoked pot. He’s now a highly successful IT exec, for the record.

67

@twinsmama - no, they don’t. I don’t know if stimulants are risky for people without ADHD - probably. But they just make you feel smarter, they don’t actually boost performance. I just saw a new study about this the other day - adding to the evidence that stimulants do absolutely nothing for people who don’t need them.

68

Trixy- are you aware that most kids at college who have prescriptions for ADHD meds need to lock them up in their dorm rooms because theft (and subsequent sale, and abuse) of those drugs are so prevalent on college campuses?
Stimulants do “absolutely nothing for people who don’t need them?” These drugs are abused every single day by people who don’t need them. Some occasional users, some habitual users, and some addicted users.

Do your homework before prescribing meds on the internet, please.

69

In my view, one of the best treatments for an underperforming individual is to get on a schedule. Involvement in a sport combined with an on campus job facilitates regimenting one’s daily life.

Self discipline is hard to do for a very social individual during one’s freshman year.

70

@taverngirl - stimulants work immediately for ADHD, and are gone once metablized. They don’t accumulate in the body like other medications. The are very helpful, but not a silver bullet. They can help you focus, endure boring tasks, and control impulses. They don’t necessarily give you the impetus to start such tasks, and they don’t really help as much with the complete inability to keep track of time or keep yourself organized (they might help a little there). Sometimes they just help you focus on the distractions. Lol. But I’ll tell you I have ADHD and medication is so important. It gets a really bad rap, but it’s safe in people who have ADHD and don’t haveexisting substance abuse problems. I’ve been sent to the cardiologist a number of times just for checks to make sure I can take stimulants. It’s always the same story - the study that showed heart problems in people with ADHD was flawed, medication actually increases life expectancy because people with ADHD who medicate are able to take better care of themselves - they exercise, eat better, and don’t do impulsive, dangerous things or self-medicate with street drugs.

I recommend this excellent podcast by Dr. William Dodson about ADHD medications. http://additudemag.libsyn.com/149-adhd-medication-management-how-to-use-and-adjust-stimulants-safely

71

According to prior posts in other threads, OP is an attorney & OP’s spouse is an MD.

Although totally unqualified in the medical arts, my diagnosis is that OP’s son is suffering from a case of excessive happiness. Such students really need to consider Flagler College & Rollins College–both in Florida–if interested in studying business. Both schools are well equipped to handle these type of students.

P.S. Many large Southern publics are also experienced at handling students with this affliction.

P.P.S. As an added caveat, the schools noted in this post will not cure the son’s condition but they will accommodate it in a productive fashion.

72

you have a lot of input here. I agree with those who say there is a lot of good here, that he is involved in school, has friends, secured a job. He obviously likes school. He seems to be like a kid in a candy store, class isn’t as interesting as all the other stuff. He is doing just enough to get by. I agree with those that say let him return but give him very clear criteria on what you will provide and what will happen in he loses the scholarship. Sounds like if you say keep the scholarship or he will have to cover the extra funds, he might do enough to keep it. I think I would want to ask him if he wants to do better or if he thinks he is doing fine. When he took off for the beach and didn’t hand in the paper is he regretful, could he just not resist and wish he had made a different choice? Or does he think it is fine and you are making too big a deal about it. If he is upset with himself with his decision and wants to do better, I would talk to him about using any resources on his campus. Suggest he have a talk with his team that he has to make grades a priority or he won’t be able to continue, his friends and his frat about what he wants to accomplish and if he says he can’t join them to not insist. Just like some one who wants to drink less peer pressure is huge and it helps to have friends who know what you want. Parental supervision is over and he needs to take responsibility himself with the support of his friends, like all adults. Work can be a good thing but he also should let any supervisor know what he can and can’t do so they don’t abuse his difficulty saying no if they need an extra shift covered. If it is a campus job, the staff supervisors can be good advisors and take part of the role you use to serve. Good luck!

73

I am serious about considering a school such as Flagler College in St. Augustine, Florida. Total COA is about $30,000 per year & has a nice mix of 65% female students / 35% male. Great beach. (Rollins College is more expensive at about $65,000 per year, but does offer merit money–at least to incoming freshman. Rollins enrolls a lot of students from wealthy families. 61% female / 39% male. Country club atmosphere. Gorgeous campus.)

I think that OP’s recommendation that her son take a gap year was in recognition of his desire to enjoy life. Unfortunately, if no concrete plan was offered for the gap year, it wasn’t really much of an option.

P.S. I recommended the two Florida schools which offer strong business programs because OP’s son is at an LAC which is best known for its business program. So even if OP’s son loses his scholarship, Flagler College at a total COA of $30,000 per year is a better option financially in a spectacular location with lots of interesting & attractive classmates.

74

OP, Is your son planning on taking a few summer classes at a home college? I also find that wandering people do better with a schedule and having to go to class and /or a job would keep him from relaxing the summer away.

75

If parents are a doctor and a lawyer, they succeeded by having very high GPAs. I did the same. I’m just chiming in to say there is more than one path to success. One of my kids is also very social, also started out with not great grades, his future was not at all clear during freshman and sophomore years of college. He’s graduated now and is working at a very top investment bank, on the fast track there. Those social skills have made all the difference for him.

I’m not writing to brag, just to say the initial 2.7 might not be the disaster his parents think it is. (Of course, the problem is that it might be-- and no one knows from this vantage point). Oh, and if it makes you feel better my son also lost his merit scholarship for a semester due to dropping a class he was getting an F in!

76

Perhaps 2.7 may be seen as unacceptable by parents for whom 3.7 was the minimum acceptable GPA for their goals.

Seems analogous to those (exaggerated stereotype) immigrant tiger parents from countries where they needed top 0.1% scores on the national university entrance exam to go to a high rank university in a country where university rank is highly important, so they tell their kids that they are failures if they score less than 1600 on the SAT, earn an A- grade, or do not get into HYPSM.

77

The parents are concerned because the son is not focusing on school, is blowing off assignments, and not handing things in. He has a merit scholarship that he needs a 3.0 for. That is not an unrealistic bar. The parents are not requiring anything more than the 3.0 to keep the merit and to demonstrate that he is taking college seriously. A 2.7 first semester may not be terrible, but a 2.7 at graduation from a kid that has the ability to do better would not make too many parents happy. I agree it is not a reason to pull him out at this point, but I would also not be happy. I can’t imagine your kid at a top financial firm graduated with under a 3.0.

78

One of my kid’s colleges publishes the average gpa, by fraternity, at that school, and the average for those not in fraternities (same info for sororities too). It can help to provide perspective on any individual gpa. Found itbygoogling name of college and Greek report card

79

@Midwestmomofboys I agree with you. And in our experience, offering help for a problem worked better than talking about “consequences,” which makes things kind of adversarial. In other words, talk together as if you are on the same team. Offering that kind of respect toward the kid tends to reap rewards because they want to deserve it.

I do NOT think the OP knows the kid doesn’t have ADHD, as I explained already.

80

For what it’s worth, I would generally not consider bringing in a young candidate to interview for an open position who had a GPA as low as 3.0.