I know many parents who have gone through the same thing - and their kids don’t have ADHD. What they have is freedom and a lack of self control. I’d let him have the next semester, but make sure he really understands that this is it - if he loses the scholarship he is done at that school. He has to be responsible for his end of the bargain.
Yes, people with low GPAs can go on and do great things - what this one can’t do is keep his scholarship.
I suspect that the low GPA is just temporary.
Law school will always be an option as will the option to pursue an honest living.
The low GPA will be permanent if the student keeps doing what he is doing now. So the question is, has he shown the motivation and willingness to change that, or not? He might get the motivation from maturity, or fear of having to leave school, or any number of other ways, but unless he is motivated to change, the situation and grades will likely remain the same. Op then has to decide if she is willing to pay $ 50k or whatever the annual cost is, with that outcome. Some are, some are not.
@Publisher I couldn’t help but chuckle at the intimation that a legal career isn’t an honest living.
The two most surprising things I have learned after reading CC for many years : upper middle class parents insistence that a disability and/or diagnosis is always the cause for low grades and the number of posters with family members or friends who did poorly in college/dropped out/thrown out but then pulled it all together and became highly successful people in high power jobs. I never see this in real life. Every family member I know who did poorly at college held minimum wage jobs into middle age and counting.
So true, @lilstitious!
OP here: We looked at Colorado College, he was accepted (wouldn’t be now), but decided he’d be too tempted by the pot culture. (He hasn’t used drugs at his school - we actually had him go to a lab and be tested before the beach (long story)).
More background: He is very bright, scored 34 ACT (took 1x), was a great student at rigorous HS until 10th grade (late puberty). It’s a 6-12 school, due to his activities and advanced math, being tiny (5th%) and wearing classes, he felt he was labeled a nerd and tried to become popular. First this was video gaming, and not putting effort into academics, then just hanging out with different crowd, dropping grades, last year of HS, didn’t turn in assignments. etc., and a sheet full of teacher comments on how bright he is and how he’d be a top academic student if he’d just turn in X.
We took him to psych who supposedly specializes in full neuropsych evals because we thought maybe he had ADHD and bc of poor decision making. Got IQ, personality, you name it, he did it. S supposedly has magical thinking (I can wait, get it done, everything will be ok!), along with other personality traits, but not ADHD.
We aren’t helicopter parents; at least we never looked on the school’s planner/grades, looked at his papers, etc. I always said “I’ve been to school and am not going back.” I once got lambasted on another CC forum for saying I taught my kids how to study for 1 test when they got a social studies book in 3rd grade, and never helped again. We have 3 kids, and that’s true. Obviously, S 18 would be doing much better if I were reviewing his papers, like some parents do for their college kids!
S did get away with turning some things in late in HS bc teachers loved him. He always participates in class and has an engaging personality, is always upbeat (bad things happen to him, within minutes he’s whistling).
So, he’s really just continuing his ways in college, but teachers aren’t giving him better grades because they like him. We don’t expect him to become x, y, or z. We just want him to have whatever he considers an interesting, fulfilling, happy life. We don’t think he’s on that path - not only didn’t he turn in the final paper when he went to the beach, there was another paper that he sent directly to the prof, not the assistant, that was considered not submitted that he knew about. And, in the 1 “hard” class he had - a notoriously hard prof - he had Cs (perhaps even D+, hard to know with him, on all the tests, studied hard for the final, got an A, and that grade ended up as. C+. The prof wrote him an email saying how surprised he was that S could actually do the material, given how he performed all year.
S said he tried adderal and it made him slightly less distracted while studying, but didn’t give him the motivation to study. He says that’s his problem.
I don’t think letting him continue without the scholarship is right. These conditions were set out in the beginning. He’d learn there are no consequences for something he can control. I don’t want to do lots of things, but I do them. That’s life. It’s not all fun.
As for this sem, we still don’t know his final gpa bc the prof in the class where he was missing 2 papers is going to grade them even though turned in late.
And, we weren’t going to force him to go to Cornell. His behavior has nothing to do with that. It wasn’t a school we even helped him pick, but one to which he decided last minute to apply. I did wonder whether he’d have better opportunities coming from there vs where he is, but that’s a non-issue. He knew all along that he could stay. We thought he’d do great at this school bc he was above the 75%. And, he begged to go to college, saying he was ready, and “needed intellectual stimulation!” (we’d had him look at Anericorps, and other gap year programs). Now I see Standardized test scores do not predict college performance.
Best of luck, OP. Some kids take a while to grow up, and they are done no favors by high school teachers who let them slide by. College is not always full of second chances. I hope things improve for you both, and maybe some time off from school will provide good perspective for him.
All I want to say is, OP, you’ve got this! Based on what you wrote, you are a great parent and I am pretty sure however you handle this will be the right way. You are doing your part – and the rest is on your son. It is his path to figure out.
Whoever said in 5 years you’ll look back and see it all worked out is right. That said, the next few month/years might not be very fun!
I agree. If you set the expectation from the beginning he’d leave his college if he loses his scholarship, then yes, follow through with that. Maybe it’ll be the kick in his pants to get him to make better decisions. But his fate is his actions and his path will be based on that. A lesson that takes longer for some kids than others.
Could be college is not right for him now and he’ll find his path back down the line. Or, he’ll get in gear this Fall and get the grades to stay and finish.
And yes, you’re a good parent!
Thank you @havenoidea for your detailed post. I agree with the above posts - you have this and seem to really understand your kid. He has to come up with the motivation to study and succeed. If he doesn’t do so next semester, than a semester off may be the best thing for him.
Personality plays a huge role in success and it is hard to accept that high IQ kids may not be the best students. Sometimes it is ADD or some other LD, sometimes it is something like oppositional behavior or mental health issues (anxiety) but sometimes it is just simply that grades/doing well are not motivating. The kid may love to learn things that interest him, but not have the motivation to undertake the mundane tasks that lead to top grades or even to do reasonably well in boring classes. One of mine had the ability to be a straight A student and attend an elite college, but not the personality for it (anxiety is one piece of this but is not bad enough to explain it all). He ended up at a good college, did OK, floundered a bit and is now doing really well in grad school (in a not so demanding program however).
At competitive schools, college is hard, even for the student that is near the top of the class by stats.
Good luck and keep us posted. I really hope he turns it around. The tough decision may be if he does really well in the fall, but not quite well enough to bring his GPA up to a 3.0. If you end up with that dilemma, one thought could be to have him take a federal loan and perhaps put the rest “on his tab” to be paid back if he doesn’t keep doing well going forward. The overall goal is have him graduate, with grades as good as possible so letting him finish there may be your best option. My youngest just graduated college and one of his roommates got pulled after 3 years, because he just never got it together. I think the parents tried, but he clearly wasn’t going to graduate on time and had already blown his scholarship. Very frustrating for them all!
If he really doesn’t have ADD or executive functioning issues it sounds as if maturity and being cornered by life’s barriers a few times (to crack through the magical thinking a bit) is the only thing that’s going to get him to change. It’s your call whether to pay for college at all if he loses the scholarship, or to continue to pay for college at a less-expensive school if he loses it. Unless he wants to take a break to work, however, I think I’d let him continue, for now, until/ or to see if he loses it… If he scrapes by with the scholarship intact, then fine. If you pull him out now he can always blame you for not giving him the chance to pull it up in time. In his mind it may be all your fault.
But if he loses the scholarship, I don’t see natural consequences as punitive if it is life’s realities setting those consequences. You are simply refusing to bail him out of situations he could have prevented. it would be different if he has ADD or serious anxiety, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. You can still be emotionally supportive without giving in (I know, hard to do). If he loses the scholarship and has to leave the school, level with him how hard it is, for you as a parent to see him suffer, struggle, experience setbacks as a result of his own mistakes but that you can’t change those mistakes. Tell him you love him and believe he can change. Ask him if there’s anything you can do to could help him to change (if he wants to). Offer hope…that you will support his efforts when he shows he’s trying, and that you believe he can be successful in whatever he chooses to do.
He seems to have a lot going for him: intelligence, people skills, boundless optimism, and when you think about it, a strong goal orientation. It’s just that, since he was a young teenager, it seems his goal was social success. He attained that through difficult circumstances for a teen (the small stature, etc.) He showed he could make the “A” grade on the class final when he decided to. I have a feeling that, like my brother, he will be a resounding success in the world when his goals shift to career success. If he sees he needs academic skills or credentials for that, he will find a way to get them, even if that’s a few years from now. Or, he might be like my brother, and find that he can bypass academic success altogether and use his social skills, boundless optimism, energy and resilience effectively in the business world. He sounds capable of getting any kind of success when HE wants it.
OP - I checked out a while back. But please don’t completely shut out the possibility that there is an attention (ADHD) or anxiety component to this. Honestly, if the person doing the evaluation pointed to his ability to hyper-focus as an indication that he does not have ADHD, well, that person doesn’t know squat about ADHD.
Your son is figuring things out. He doesn’t have to have top grades to succeed in life. But he does need his parents to be in his corner. Best of luck to you in working through this.
This was the big mistake. I also have a high-scoring (NM level) son who floundered in college - very similar issues to the ones you describe. And I have a daughter who was the BOTTOM 25% at a rigorous college, based on test scores, and she hunkered down from the start and graduated in the top 5%.
The problem is that you, your son (and mine) were thinking that the test scores meant that things would be easy – and the reality is that college requires discipline, planning, work.
And that means nothing. My daughter got the grades because she kept on top of her reading, attended class, and turned in work on time. If she had questions or problems in college, she always went to the TA or prof during office hours to get help when needed, and she organized study groups for classes where she felt the need for ongoing support.
My son dropped out of his first college, worked for 3 years, then transferred into a nonselective public state college – and excelled. He later got a master’s degree and now has a good job working for a public agency where he is also doing extremely well.
If your son does well in his sport (something my son didn’t have) – then that shows he has the capacity to apply himself and follow through in an area where he has the motivation and feedback & support from coach & teammates.
Parenting can be hard. You might just have to take a step back and let the chips fall where they may. Your son will survive and will land where he is meant to land. As I posted before, his social skills can carry him far in terms of employment.
“The problem is that you, your son (and mine) were thinking that the test scores meant that things would be easy – and the reality is that college requires discipline, planning, work.”
Often the smart, undisciplined student finds it easy to skate through academics based on their intelligence and the ability to wing it and often some charm - until they can’t.
I have one overachiever and one underachiever as well so I can relate.
And, yes, those social skills, charm, and intelligence can certainly lead to career success despite lackluster college transcripts. I know many real life examples.
There can be two reasons you don’t see it.
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We (high school teachers) can informally determine about 85 - 90% of college outcomes based upon high school work ethic and ability (the two combined). The other 10 - 15% surprise us. Those can be good as some of the stories here or bad. Bad is often caused by drug or alcohol overuse TBH. You might know the 85 - 90% and not know anyone in the 10-15%.
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Many who had a major slip up in high school or college don’t post it on FB or proclaim it to everyone living. It’s rarely a badge of honor. You usually have to know them before/after or be really, really close to them to finally have the topic surface. I doubt anyone H works with knows his college GPA. I doubt 99% of our friends (post college) know. They just assume he did really well because of how successful he is now and his work ethic now.
It’s easy to know those who didn’t do well when they kept that trajectory. Most folks are very surprised when the occasional list comes around showing various famous/successful people and how they actually did in college.
It’s a fallacy to assume a great ACT/SAT score will predict college success. Those two tests show some academic knowledge and thinking ability, but they say nothing about work ethic.
It’s a combo of the two - and the ability to stay away from drugs alcohol (in excess) plus a few other life issues (like health) that teachers use to predict who will do well and won’t.
People skills help too, but that’s a little more when it comes to getting and keeping jobs than it is academics.
ETA: It’s not actually a combo of scores and work ethic, but intelligence/thinking ability overall and work ethic. There are some who aren’t great testers (short periods of time), but do well with more time and at some schools (like mine) it’s not always possible to get a terrific foundation for a great score. Kids who do extra on their own get great scores if they are capable. Intelligent kids who assume our school will prepare them get decent scores, but not great territory.
Noone is suggesting a disability as the definite reason for problems. The suggestion to at least look into ADHD always gets twisted by someone.
I will say this one more time. A neuropsych. evaluation cannot diagnose or refute a diagnosis of ADHD unless the questionnaire was used. And a diagnosis of ADHD is inherently subjective.
Meds can help if that IS a kid’s problem but there are so many other ways to help. And it can change the parental approach.
Everything the OP writes sounds to me like investigating that further might be warranted. For instance, sending the paper to the prof rather than the assistant is very typical. Or maybe he was chatting with a girlfriend while instructions were given.
There is no act that is simply the result of an immature or unmotivated student in the CC world.
Well he certainly seems to have a pretty interesting, fulfilling, and happy life right now. And he has a B- average, which isn’t that bad, at a school you can afford even if he loses the scholarship. So what you really mean is “We just want him to have an interesting, fulfilling, happy life… according to our definition of that, and we will punish him by taking away the interesting, fulfilling, happy life he has now unless he does what we want.”
I hope that works out for you, but you might want to consider the possibility that if it backfires, you could end up with a damaged relationship and a kid who just drifts and never goes back to school.