Do we pull S18 from college?

Parent Cafe
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But when they go off to college they are on the way to becoming adults, and many, many young people that age are in positions that require the exercise of adult responsibilities. Think about all the young people for whom college is not an option – who join the military or get jobs straight out of high school because they don’t have parents capable or willing to support them financially through college. Or very young people who become parents themselves in their teen years. Their brains aren’t magically more mature simply because they aren’t given the luxury of 4 more years before they are expected to support themselves by work ---- though it is quite possible that the life experiences they gain through taking on those responsibilities do foster greater maturity.

So yes, parents need to be understanding and realize that their college-age students are going to make mistakes, and not expect perfection from them. But that doesn’t mean shielding those young adults from the consequences of their actions, or rescuing or bailing them out.

I’d add that in hindsight, it was not a bad thing that my son “failed” at his first try at college. (He didn’t actually flunk out, but he did badly enough that the decision was made to quit after year #2). If he had been a moderately better student and stuck things out, he would have probably graduated at age 22 with an absolutely useless liberal arts degree and been aimless and uncertain about his next steps. Instead, he found his passions and strengths in the work world, and was able to make the most of his final two years of college when he transferred later on, in part because of the greater maturity he had gained during his 3-year hiatus. It didn’t hurt him at all to be a 24-year-old undergrad at school #2.

His first two years at a private LAC are essentially insignificant in his personal timeline. It was a place he didn’t belong and where he didn’t benefit. But it’s easy to draw a line from that first real job after he quit school, at age 20, to his current career – it is a fairly consistent progression of doing the same type of work with increasing levels of responsibility and the interruptions along the way to burnish his educational credentials for that field.

I realize things could have been different. My son could have messed up the holding-down-a-job part of life as well. I certainly see other parents who end up with their 30-something kids still floundering and living at home. But the point is that it’s not inappropriate for parents for parents to have higher expectations of a 19-year-old than they would of a 13-year-old, or for them to pull the plug at some point. Nor is it inappropriate for parents to make their own expectations clear and to allow their kids to suffer the natural consequences if they fail to meet those expectations.

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Well, maybe part of the problem with him not acting like an adult is that he doesnt consider himself one. He is, and tens of thousands of men his age have held responsible jobs, led others in battle, even married and had children, all well before reaching that magical age of brain developmental of 25. They were no smarter than he is.

If we want our children to make mature decisions, it would help to start acknowledging that they are adults and stop infantalizing them. No, 19 is not the new 13, and men of 19 will likely rise to the standards set for them. We do not really have to lower the bar or make excuses for them. By the way, both husband and my roommate were enrolled in a top law school by 19, so yes, many that age can understand the role of an attorney quite well.

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Wow. Pull him out?? This is an adult earning passing grades while balancing a sport and extracurriculars. There is no problem here. If natural consequences occur via the school, or in terms of graduate school applications later, he’ll have to deal with them. Simply make sure he’s aware of the potential ramifications of his choices. Otherwise, unless you laid down rules regarding grades and your financial support BEFORE he started college, leave it be. He’ll rise, he’ll fall, he’ll continue to bump along… whatever happens, let him own it as an adult.

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All the scenarios describing those C kids who are more interested in exploring interests themselves, engaging in topics that really interest them, etc., don’t describe our S. He’s not grappling with interesting physics questions in lieu of school. He’s not gazing out the window considering how a shadow falls from a tree. He’s not reading the classics (or anything) in lieu of class work. He’s playing frisbee and hanging with frat bros. While avoiding schoolwork, but wanting to do it (according to him), but something more appealing always comes along.

As to the “why” for his behavior. We are taking him back to a therapist, but the psychiatrist (who did do an ADHD questionnaire) explained it based on a confluence of personality traits - 100% outgoing, magical thinking, some other things - and it having worked to the extent it did for years, mainly due to an extremely high working memory. The Dr. predicted what actually happened, but was in favor of him going to this college, having given S the info he did, and telling him what to do so as not to fall into this trap.

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@lookingforward - there is no difference between ADD and ADHD. ADD is no longer a diagnosis, and it has not been since 1987. It is all ADHD, and there are 3 subtypes of ADHD - primarily hyperactive, primarily inattentive, and combined type.

PS - to OP - stimulant medication does exactly what your son said it did to him. It doesn’t help you motivate. That you have to do yourself, and that’s where the coaching comes in. But it does make it easier to get moving once you make a decision to motivate, and it helps you concentrate and stay focused once you’re involved in the task. You say in your post that your son wants to have motivation, but just can’t motivate. That tells me he does have a desire to do well. But you keep framing it like he just doesn’t care. You need to get to the bottom of that with him.

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@havenoidea —

That pretty much describes the problems my son had, except my son was less social/athletic. So instead of engaging with other students, he was likely playing videogames rather than studying – but same difference. He wasn’t motivated to complete classwork in about half of his classes.

I didn’t pull my kid out of school, he made the decision to “pull” himself out. He had concealed some of the details from me-- I didn’t find out the whole story until later. When I did find out, he was technically on leave of absence from school, but at that point I told him he couldn’t go back to that school. It was a money thing – there was no way of repairing things at that particular school without paying a lot more money than I could ever afford. He would have to finish at a less costly, more flexible school because school #1 wouldn’t have been possible without an added semester.

So basically my son needed to finish at an instate public (for financial reasons) - and I gave him a deadline as to the time frame where I would provide financial support for college. He ended up missing that deadline – he actually had quit his job and was on his way to enroll in public U. classes for the coming semester – then turned around, went back to his employer, and asked for his job back. For him there was that moment of reckoning when he realized he liked working and was better at it than school.

Every single kid is on a different path, and part of the growth process is learning about oneself and one’s preferences. Right now, at this age, your son isn’t ready for the academic part of college. It’s not that he can’t do the work, it’s that his heart isn’t in it. He can’t and isn’t going to be able to motivate himself to do something that he really, truly doesn’t want to do.

College isn’t compulsory.

And it is possible that your son can muddle through and pull out a degree, because he is not appear to be in danger of failing, just losing the merit money.

And it is also possible that he’ll find his motivation down the line, through more advanced or narrow course work.

But my point is that what your son is going through is o.k. and part of his own growth process – but that doesn’t mean that you as a parent are supposed to encourage or finance it.

I’m glad my son quit school when he did. I’m glad he spent time as a gainfully employed college dropout – gaining the experience and emotional growth he needed to do to get more focused and purposeful in his life. I’m not glad about the $$$$ I flushed down the toilet for the first 2 years of college — but that was part of the learning experience, albeit a rather expensive one. But dollar for dollar, it is no difference to my bank account than the money I spent later on for my daughter to be successful during her undergrad years. Yes, it made me feel better as a parent to see all those A’s on my daughter’s transcript – but either way, dollars left my bank account and never came back. It was just harder to see the value in the life lessons my son was getting from spending a year enrolled in a course and ending up with an incomplete.

So your son has his own life path to follow – we can’t predict outcome. If your son loses that scholarship and has to quit college – it won’t be the end of the world. He will be able to bounce back. It’s important for you to be clear with your son now about what he can and can’t expect from you in the future. But it is not your responsibility to fix his problems for him. Nor is it productive to nag now, or to castigate down the line.

I think the answer is pretty clear – don’t “pull” your son out of college now – but don’t fill the gap down the line if he loses the scholarship, either. Maybe he’ll figure out a way on his own to solve that problem, maybe he won’t. He’ll have other options and opportunities; just no way right now to anticipate what those might be.

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Ok, Trixy, thanks. I do see ADD is sometimes used, in the absence of the hyperactivity.

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@lookingforward - yes, it’s a common misconception that keeps perpetuating itself. I think because people just assume that the ADHD diagnosis would require hyperactivity, so it would make sense to call it ADD. But the proper dx is ADHD inattentive type.

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I think it’s still confusing, however, when a kid can concentrate, but on the pleasures, not the expectations. Granted, we don’t know more than what OP has told. I don’t necessarily think the school issues are voluntary and correctable just via resolve.

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I’d be more concerned about the choices than the 2.7 – specifically

  1. promising to do better and to quit his sport till his grades improve, then using the money his dad gave him to pay for the sport anyway
  2. following friends to the beach before paper was completed despite claiming he “wants” to complete the paper and do better than first semester
  3. realizing he’d get an extra semester and resuming previous “year round summer camp” behavior.
    At this point you shouldn’t pull him out of college, but you (and his dad!) surely should not provide him with a cent in pocket money. Not for entertainment, not for books. Does he have a job? If not, Walmart and fast food restaurants everywhere are hiring - he should be able to earn enough for books and personal expenses.
    Saying he “wants to” do better - well, duh. Who doesn’t want to be rich and successful, to boot? Which kids would say “I want bad grades”?
    It’s not about wanting - it’s all about doing.

It sounds like he feels he can “get away” with anything, that it’ll all turn out alright if he uses his social skills (smile, dress well, be polite, be charming, etc.). Rent the books for him, off his earned wages (I’ve seen kids use book money for more ‘pleasant’ surprises). Whatever’s left is his money for the semester.
Having to earn his own money will make him appreciate his scholarship a bit more.

Apparently he’s never had any consequences to his fun-loving, careless behavior - even his professor will grade the papers he turned in late. So, he might expect you will not expect him to find a lousy job, or will give him money in the end.

Basically it means that Fall semester he should get lost ALL As and no grade lower than a B+. It’s a tall order.

If you don’t have them, get his school system (Blackboard, etc) login and password (non negotiable). This way you’ll know his grades in real time and you’ll be able to calculate his GPA. (Does he know how to do that?)

The big consequence is that if his GPA isn’t 3.0 by December, he loses his scholarship.
How about he’ll have to take a leave of absence from his college to work and earn x% the money (what’s the amount? 1/3 tuition or 2/3 tuition??), his entire salary going to a fund meant to offset the cost of one semester without scholarship. Once he’s earned the set amount (at least equivalent to January-August, full time, minimum wage*) he can return to college and you’ll reassess at the end of that semester with a grade review.

  • My guess is that 7-8 months of full time work with a minimum wage will make him appreciate college more as well as help him take his studies more seriously.
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@MYOS1634 I think you missed this in the original post and won’t be needing to work at Walmart or fast food establishments in the fall.

“Now that we know he gets another semester, we’re torn, mainly bc he has a great on campus job lined up for next semester in an area of interest to him in which he’d be working with adult staff”

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Sorry, I should have been more specific: I meant a summer job, right now, if he doesn’t have one (to pay for books and personal expenses instead of expecting his dad to give him money). The oncampus job won’t have a salary for a while and he shouldn’t use that as a excuse not to have the books which would be an excuse for a poor grade/inability to study.
I think the on-campus job is great news and it may help him a lot actually (with other friends, better time management, direct consequences.)

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@MYOS1634 You are right, and we are more concerned with the behavior that is leading to the GPA. I stated it that way mainly because the merit is tied to the gpa. He gets 1/3 off tuition.

He was supposed to get an on campus job this year, to use for personal expenses (to help with learning responsibility and time management), but didn’t. So, he barely had $, except when his dad gave him some (and he used it for sports dues).

He lined up an unpaid internship for the summer (after being reminded) because he was going to apply for the school’s guaranteed summer funding, but he submitted the application late and didn’t follow directions for the recommendation, so didn’t get the funding.

We’ve told him he needs to get a paying job for evenings and weekends since he wants the internship but couldn’t manage to get the “guaranteed” funding. That $ will be his spending $ this summer and into fall.

He has a job lined up at school for next year. That job is the main reason we were thinking to allow him to return rather than take time off and work, as you’ve suggested. He’s excited about it, and we’re hoping it may help him with his priorities and motivation. He would be expected to pay we’re personal expenses and books.

But, depending on this year’s cumulative GPA, it’s true, he may not be able to get the 3.0.

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There seem to be two very different approaches being advocated:

The parental (possibly punitive) approach: Parents set new rules and make new demands, with the possibility of punishment (such as being pulled from school) if the demands aren’t met.

The natural consequences / won’t rescue approach: Parents offer guidance and suggestions, but don’t force decisions-- but also make it clear that they won’t rescue or fill in the gap. If kid loses the scholarship – parents aren’t paying extra for tuition. So kid probably leaves school at that point because of lack of funding – but young people are resourceful, maybe the kid solves that problem in another way.

Fortunately, no one seems to be advocating the helicopter/lawnmower - parents fix everything approach – although some of the discussion about ADHD might be tilting a little in that direction. (In the sense of looking for an external medical excuse rather than focusing on the student’s level of personal responsibility).

I’m a natural-consequences type parent --so that’s why I advocate that type of an approach. I think the problem is that it’s hard for some people to stick to that – if you tell your kid they need a campus job for spending money, and then when they don’t follow through, turn around and send them money when they ask – that’s a problem of the parent saying one thing and doing another. Sometimes there’s a good reason for parents to reevaluate their expectations-- but it should be a thoughtful process, not a matter of parental comfort level with seeing their kids experience the negative consequences.

I’d just add that when you stand back and give your kid the chance to fail, you are also providing the chance to succeed. That is, the kid may pull up his GPA, he may preserve his scholarship, he may develop better study habits his sophomore year. If he does, he won’t be the first kid in history to achieve that – it’s actually quite common for kids to have rocky first-year college experiences and do much better down the line. But it can be hard to recognize that sort of success when it happens if it looks like the product of parental pressure – so one more reason in favor of the hands-off approach. If the kid messes up, he lives with the consequences. If he succeeds, then he can own his success.

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Actually, I have not seen a single post advocating a punitive approach. Most seeem To agree to let life teach some lessons, if that occurs, with some advocating that there must be a biological basis to this behavior despite repeated medical assurances to the contrary

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Option C. Let the kid stay in school if he wishes and give him another chance even if he loses his scholarship (since the family was prepared to pay full freight for college anyway). Tell him starting in the fall if he gets any grade below a B, he’s paying for that class.

That’s what I would do. I wouldn’t pull the plug on college for my child. I don’t think a 2.7 is that horrendous and the guy seems happy and healthy. There are worse problems one can have.

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And what do you do when he can not pay for the courses with a C? He has reneged on his promises to get funding for this summer and to cut back on his sport. Is there any reason to expect he won’t renege on this? Courses are expensive.

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Deduct it from all future Christmas and birthday gifts. :slight_smile: Or they could choose to drop out if they can’t pony up the difference. That would be their call - and a consequence - at that stage. It’s about giving a second chance. Yes, I would do that for my kids along with a sit down talk about expectations, and perhaps the counseling the OP plans to do already.

Personally, I wouldn’t force my kid drop out of college unless they were at risk of failing out or needed to for health reasons as long as I could afford it.

There are risks to staying the course but definitely there are risks to pulling him out of college. I’d roll the dice on the first option and bet in favor of my kid and another chance. My parents did that for me way back when and things worked out great.

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I don’t know this family or their finances – or what college the son is currently attending – but there is an objective difference between schools and a family that is willing to pay full freight for a prestige education at an Ivy (Cornell) – is well within their rights if they aren’t willing to pay the same for a school they perceive as being of lesser value.

So I think it is very inappropriate and unfair to be admonishing this poster that if the parents were willing to fund Cornell they should be willing to pay the same for college X. That’s simply a false equivalency. The colleges aren’t the same, nor are the circumstances now the same as they were when the parents were initially willing to fund Cornell, and had the mistaken though not unreasonable expectation that their son would prioritize his studies while at college.

And I hope no one will respond by extolling the virtues of that college – that’s not the point, I’m sure there is are plenty of people willing to sing the virtues of that particular school. The point is that this is an area that it is appropriate for the parents to decide on their own.

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I’m not admonishing. I’m expressing an opinion.

“The point is that this is an area that it is appropriate for the parents to decide on their own.”
No need for lecturing. This is a message board. OP asked for opinions. That’s my opinion. She already stated that she could pay for it but preferred not to. Of course it is her decision. But we are all entitled to express our opinions even if they differ from your own. Expressing my opinion, especially what you chose to quote, is not admonishing, @calmom.

Definition of admonish: warn or reprimand someone firmly.

I think your post might fit that definition though. :smiley: