Do You Worry About Your Very Different Younger Child?

<p>2 kids here who could not be more different - lol
DS older - very self directed, very bright, highly motivated, driven by his passions. Easy child - haha.
DD much younger - self directed in her own areas of interest, bright, motivated in her own areas of interest, still haven't figured out what drives her, blond. Challange child - haha.</p>

<p>We have definitely had to take each of these kids on their own merits and accomplishments - their college experiences couldn't be more diferent also. DS was a 1 school kinda guy - DD was the right school kinda gal. DS went to small/private/elite LAC - DD at large state Univ - can't even begin to compare them. We encouraged both tho to pursue their own lives and education to suit their own needs/personalities. There was no other way to manage it differently - and I think we lucked out as they both found exactly what they were looking for and needed.</p>

<p>My H is always telling our S "you can do it", and "you are much brighter than I was at your age", and somehow I don't see that as encouragement. It's just saying, I expect more from you, but in a different way. </p>

<p>It is certainly not easy being in the shadow of one to whom everything comes easily. What does the other one have to do, work twice as hard as #1, and yet never make it? Or don't even try. </p>

<p>I do know that S is not even remotely interested in being where his sister is at at, not even trying, but then I also know deep down, that he could not do it even if he tried.</p>

<p>Just brought in the mid-term reports from the mailbox. His poker-playing days are numbered.</p>

<p>Well, 17-year-old S has always been the challenge in our family, while 14-year-old D has been the easy one, especially in terms of fitting into the traditional school system. It doesn't have a thing to do with being a girl and a boy but rather with specific strengths and weaknesses, interests and personalities. S seems to now be turning out so well, that I'm finally able to breathe a bit after years of angst (mostly hidden). D has a hard act to follow at their high school and probably will insist on not following it, but will strike out in some way on her own. She is lucky though, in that she has an ability to be happy in most circumstances, makes friends easily and is not a very competitive person. She would be challenged and satisfied in a number of colleges and in a number of careers, so I don't have the same deep concerns that I did with my S. When I think back to those years of raising him, I feel that H and I have earned our stripes in parenting. Had we been given two kids cut from D's mold, we would been fairly naive about just how hard it can be. I try to use that hard-earned humility in my teaching job when I think about the parents of some of my most difficult students. People really shouldn't judge parents until they know the whole story. Some kids are really hard to raise.</p>

<p>chocoholic: well, all I can say is ditto. We have the same sophomore son. (he's downstairs playing poker with his buddies as I type).</p>

<p>We have gone around and around about the grades and not reaching potential - or even trying just a little bit. He finally brokered a deal with us: get off his back completely i.e. just leave him alone and don't even check grades (we can do that with an on-line grade reporting system which is updated daily) and he would get a 3.5 for his 6 week report (and he came up with the 3.5 figure). He said if he didn't meet that 3.5 mark, we could get back on his case. We agreed and, although it's killing me not to check his grades, I have maintained the hands off position. We'll see how it goes.</p>

<p>mackinaw: Facinating story about your son. Is your son a member of SABR - Society of American Baseball Researchers? My H joined many years ago. It is H's fav hobby, including attending the annual conventions. Your S is living my H's baseball dream life.</p>

<p>Mackinaw, has your S tried blackjack? My dad learned everything he knows from "Beat the Dealer" by Edmund O. Thorp. Back in the 1970s he was banned from a well-known casino and just a few years ago, in his 80s, he got the toss from another one. He's almost 85 now, sharp as ever, but "not as greedy," as he puts it. He's content to play nickel video poker and occasional blackjack at the casinos or locals. (My folks moved to Las Vegas about 15 years ago-- not for the gambling, but for the weather and to be closer to family)</p>

<p>I worry much less about my younger one than my older one. The older one is extremely academically talented, in all kinds of ways that would prevent earning a living! (actually, I'm not really too worried about that, but she is so far outside the mainstream in so many ways that we often have to take a deep breath.) The younger one has nowhere near the academic talents of the older one, though she is a perfectionist. Never reads a book by choice. But she is extremely sociable, very talented in other ways (a prodigious pianist -- why would you want to read a book when you can sightread Rachmaninoff? -- and a fine gymnast), very caring and charitable, as straight-arrow as they come, just a person that, upon meeting, you'd want on your team! She also knows how to work!</p>

<p>For us as parents, it has been a matter of putting on a different headset</p>

<p>kinshasa, blackjack's not his game and the way they run it at casinos now its almost impossible to win over the long run. With poker, however, players can win both at the casinos and on-line. I'd like to interest him in a non-money game such as bridge.</p>

<p>I'm the younger one of my family. My brother is a year older and graduated last year. Didn't do anything about college, he took a year off and is going to some mechanic two-year program despite receiving a Technical Diploma in Electronics and State Diploma.<br>
He's good with electronics and learning from doing.</p>

<p>Me, on the other hand, I can learn from reading a book, learn from doing it once, and hands-on. </p>

<p>However, he's more of the sneaky practical joker and being social and whatnot. I'm the kind that will do something right in front of the teacher. I tend to make better grades than he does, yet get in a whole lot more trouble. I got a D in my junior year of English because I simply didn't get along with teacher. She tended to grade my work based on conduct, not content. And then I started cutting that class.</p>

<p>But my brother was the kind that needed social attention and I was the one who detested it. He's more electronically inclined, I'm more artsy and musical and don't want anything to do with electronics unless it relates to music or broadcasting, of which I can tell you everything I know about it. </p>

<p>We're very different, but alike too. We work hard as what we like. We get along for the most part. He even took a year off to wait for me to graduate before going to college :)</p>

<p>Parents -</p>

<p>I'd like to offer a first-person account of what the parental obsession with the intellectual merits or demerits of their children can wreak upon a child. I think it's fair to say that, during my high school years, I became one of those "dream kids" about whom you all fantasize. I was one of the two academic stars in my small class, and developed into an unapologetic ivory-tower type intellectual (which I still am to a large extent). My parents never saw anything below an A- on a report card, and mostly saw strings of untainted A's. My teachers and administrators loved me, and put their faith in my future. I started reading philosophy during sophomore year, accumulated a large body of knowledge, and am now studying the subject at Berkeley. Now, what could possibly be wrong with this all-too-perfect picture?</p>

<p>Before college, I had lived with my mother since my parents split in '88. She had always seen the budding intellectual spirit in me, and was delighted to see it come to the fore during high school. Come junior year, and the beginning of the college process, it was clear to her, and to me, that I would apply to selective schools where I could explore my academic interests in an intellectual environment. </p>

<p>Enter into the picture my girlfriend, whose list of schools matched mine only in that some of mine were near (geographically) to some of hers. When my mother realized that I <em>might</em> be taking geography into account in making college decisions when the first letters began to arrive, the pressure was on from her end. She constantly reminded me that I needed <em>only</em> to consider the academic merits of schools in making my decision (of course not in so many words), and warned me vaguely about "passing up opportunities." Of course, <em>none</em> of the schools on my list were "bad" schools, even the safeties. She developed a completely erroneous conception of my girlfriend as someone who was pressuring me to go to school near her (untrue) and, de facto, as someone who was trying to hinder my "intellectual development." My mother's tremendously incorrect assumptions led to a gigantic rift in my relationship with my girlfriend, and to great confusion on my part.</p>

<p>But the story only <em>begins</em> here. I have Crohn's disease, which, for the uninitiated, is an autoimmune condition that causes the immune system to attack the intestines, leading to inflammation, internal bleeding, pain that you can't even begin to imagine, and other symptoms that decency prevents me from describing. Stress has a nasty tendency to aggravate the condition, and even to cause it to come out of remission. The rest of the story should be predictable at this point, but I'll tell it anyway. As pressure from my mother mounted, I sank into a confused misery. She was so intent that I go to the "right" school that I began to wonder what her motives were. My mother flunked out of Stanford, so that entered my mind - could she be (<em>gasp</em>) LIVING HER UNFULFILLED DREAMS THROUGH ME? No, impossible, parents <em>never</em> do that. Now, to be fair, it also entered my mind that some desire to promote my best interest was probably a factor in her behavior. But this is exactly my point - your kids' best interest isn't always what you perceive it to be. So, anyway, the time came to visit two schools in April '04, one in the midwest and one on the east coast. By now, she and I had clashed many a time on the subject of where I would attend. I was miserable, and so was she, and I was doing everything I could to avoid her company. And, I was beginning to feel a sickeningly familiar pain in my gut. Each day, it got worse, but I didn't tell her, for fear that she would accuse me of trying to circumvent the trip out east on trumped up medical grounds. I had no symptoms yet to prove that I was getting sick. As the stress mounted, the pain intensified, and when we left, it was obvious that I was down for the count. By the time we got to Chicago, I had plunged into the depths of what would become my worst bout with my disease, a bout whose magnitude I could never have predicted. For the rest of 2004, I struggled almost daily, and, of course, I ended up going to Berkeley because I needed to be near home and near my doctor, in case I needed to leave school. The disease, having come out of remission and refusing to be controlled, completely ruined my first semester, and contributed to a profoundly lonely, isolated, and miserable existence. During week eight, I had to go home and become a commuter while trying to control the disease. Now, finally, I've achieved a great measure of control, but control has only come with a transition to the most powerful drug that a Crohn's patient can receive.</p>

<p>Are parents evil? No, of course not; most have their children's best interest in mind. But I caution all of you, because even the smallest amount of stress put on a kid can have tremendous effects that you may not immediately perceive. It takes time for the effects to build up. Parents need to take a step back and evaluate the whole child, not only the mental child. If I didn't love philosophy the way I do, I would almost say that I'd prefer to have been a more run-of-the-mill teenager, and have gone to parties, drank a little, experienced life a little more than I did. I missed out on a lot in high school - though I wouldn't go back and change it - because of my intense desire to find answers to the questions that have always plagued people. I have a perspective that most kids don't have, and I can provide you with a perspective that your kids probably won't give you, and my point is that a kid might be perfectly happy with his 2.8, and might turn out to be an adult remembered for his good heart and creativity; I've known much better people than myself who had just such happiness.</p>

<p>ilikeplato, you have my sincere sympathy concerning your Crohn's. CD runs in my extended family (sister, two nephews, and some others), as does UC. It's a horrible disease, though varying a lot in symptomology. I really hope you get this thing under control.</p>

<p>I think many parents -- most on this board -- have a strong interest in their children's getting an excellent education but very few are thoroughly controlling or manipulative about specific choices. </p>

<p>Still yours is a helpful and cautionary tale. Thanks for posting it in such detail.</p>

<p>Oh Chocoholic; do not worry or fret about you 'normal' child! I intensionally raised my younger boys to be 'normal'. If your kids are biright there are all kinds of things parents can do to enhance their child's abilities and talents.We did so with our first two kids. Then with the second two, did things a little differently. First of all we just ran out of money and ability to run with these two. But I intensionally raised these boys a little differently too. I have such SECURE and FINE boys. I am SO grateful!</p>

<p>ilikeplato-
Your words should help parents and kids look at their priorities. Hope you are feeling better. Chrohn's is no fun.</p>

<p>We have four...and they are ALL different. The oldest (18) has excelled in acadamia since she was a toddler and is now a NMSF (hope to see finalist papers soon). Number 2 and number 4 are bright and should do fine as long as they apply themselves. Thirteen year old daughter #3 is different (yes, 3 teenage daughters). </p>

<p>She is the worst speller you have ever seen, had a hard time learning to read, struggles with math and most other subjects. However, she is very creative, somewhat artistic and is pretty and popular. She knows she has these issues but also has more goals and dreams than all of our other kids. Her goals are more down to earth (wants to own her own business). I honestly feel that if we can help channel her goals she will be at least as successful as her siblings.</p>

<p>Ilikeplato, I am very sorry for the rough time that you have had, with Crohn's, and that you did not feel that you had your mother's support and understanding through a difficult time in your life. I do hope that you are able to rebuild those bridges, and come to forgive her, as she loves you very much for sure; It takes a very wise person to forgive, and it is not easy to truly forgive and let go; but it will be good for you and her.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have a perspective that most kids don't have, and I can provide you with a perspective that your kids probably won't give you, and my point is that a kid might be perfectly happy with his 2.8, and might turn out to be an adult remembered for his good heart and creativity; I've known much better people than myself who had just such happiness.

[/quote]

Thank you for those wise words.</p>

<p>Ilikeplato:</p>

<p>Thanks for posting. It's good for parents to realize that sometimes they unconsciously put pressure on their kids. I remember friends who told me their son brought back a report card and saying apologetically: "I'm sorry I made a B+ this semester." That's when they realized that their constant pride in his straight As had sent signals that B+s would be unwelcome.
I hope that you are feeling better. Are you back in school now?</p>

<p>For those of you who are not familiar with Crohn's, its varying manifestions, and its ups and downs, here are a couple of links. </p>

<p>Crohn's isn't curable at this time, and its cause isn't clear either (could be a variety of causes). You hope to prevent certain consequences and to get it into remission, usually with the help of medications and diet. My sister has somehow managed with a special diet only. Her son was just diagnosed with Crohn's, too. Another of my nephews has had surgery twice for Crohn's. I have ulcerative colitis (UC), which sometimes behaves ike Crohn's and often uses similar treatments, but generally isn't as severe or as debilitating.</p>

<p><a href="http://ccfa.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ccfa.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://p207.ezboard.com/bcrohnscolitismessageboard%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://p207.ezboard.com/bcrohnscolitismessageboard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>A friend of mine has Crohns although she has had relatively good luck managing it.
One of my favorite musicians has it as well and has become very visible in increasing community awareness about the disease.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ccfa.org/about/news/mccreadypsa%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ccfa.org/about/news/mccreadypsa&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I used to worry about my younger child, who was very much in the shadow of his older brother, who was well known in our city because of his accomplishments. Years passed, times changed. Younger son is flourishing and I am worried about older son.</p>