<p>My kids went to Kumon. </p>
<p>When I see something that works, I’m big on adopting it. Around here, though, a lot of the white kids go to Kumon. Why wouldn’t they?</p>
<p>^I agree! The Kumon in our area had representation of all races (although heavily immigrant, Asian, East Indian and eastern European). It’s only at college that they discovered an inordinate amount of their Asian friends did Kumon and at their centers there were very few if any white kids.</p>
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<p>Absolutely. I always enjoy the opportunity to brag. Thank you, OP :)</p>
<p>I was the opposite of Tiger Mom and my children have turned out great by any standard. Like JHS and others this seems to me more luck than anything else. The luck starts even before conception and continues always. Every day I feel lucky my kids are okay today.</p>
<p>I was committed to trying to raise internally motivated adults who don’t work solely for gold stars. We homeschooled, until highschool, without grades or testing until they were 11 or 12 and were allowed to take the SAT to qualify for various “gifted” programs. My in-laws were very relieved when we shared the SAT scores, since they assumed I was ruining the children. My own family weren’t worried. There is always a place for the next generation to try once again to make a living off the family farm. I never allowed them to be IQ tested (thinking about that other thread) When the kids went to school, my husand and I told them we were available to help in any way, but we had already been to high school and weren’t interested in monitoring any home work. It was up to them. </p>
<p>The only time my husband and I ever punished a teenager was when one child wasn’t allowed to attend an academic competition. He helped to start a new academic team sophomore year and when it was time for the big event, we learned some students hadn’t really been welcome to participate because there was a sense on the part of the founding members they wouldn’t be strong team mates. The next year the team included everyone interested and took first place, at least at the first stage… I can’t remember after that. There were a lot of teams and it was a long time ago at this point. He was really upset with us for a very long time. We were very torn.</p>
<p>One reason my parenting worked for our kids (and I was the one who decided how we were parenting though my husband never really doubted my plan, except about forbidding standardized testing for so long) is because they are intensely competitive. I have laughed with recognition while reading some excerpts from the Emanuel brother’s biography. This parenting style would have been disastrous with the children of one of my brothers. They needed much more academic structure than mine did. </p>
<p>I liked Oldfort’s article. For several years, Turecki’s The Difficult Child was my lifeline. My kids stayed in a stroller long past the normal age because the only safe way to take them anywhere was if they were restrained. (once when they accompanied me to a doctor’s appointment, in the stroller, they almost had part of the examination bed dismantled before the doctor or I noticed) If they left the stroller, we immediately went home. They saw a whole lot of wonderful sites from the stroller though not the Parthenon. I was always the mean aunt. When one sister was pregnant with her third, she gave me her temper tantruming two year old daughter for a week to “deal with while she rested” That niece is still wary of me. I made her stay in her car seat. And the stroller.</p>
<p>Sending a youngster to a Kumon academy is not a problem, and it is not different from schlepping kids in the backseat of a Suburban to an endless series of athletic or art events. Or to a tutor or specialist when needed. </p>
<p>The focus on academic excellence is not different from a focus on art or athletic excellence. The stereotype that Asians may tend to prefer academics or art over sports, especially group sports has only a small part of truth to it, as most stereotypes are. Everyone should be entitled to make the choices for what appears best for the families.</p>
<p>However, anyone who look at the lists of “what is bad” about the various cultures (in line with some posts here) should notice that the “popular” lists that cause either derision or plenty of smiles are based on extreme behavior. The reality is that most people who could be poster children for such lists are not engaging in every “poor behavior” and tend to present a much better balance. And, like all of us, show how human fail to be … perfect. </p>
<p>But in the sea of balanced and imperfect humans, there are some who believe that perfection can be attained by extreme pressure. If applied to oneself, it is a matter of personal choice. When it becomes part of parental or grandparental guidance, it become a different issue altogether because children might not make the same choices.</p>
<p>The college admissions “game” is not one with many “victors” and it is one that disappoints and angers many. Is it really a form of good parenting to place such pressure on the shoulder of teenagers that only an acceptance at a handful of “acceptable” schools will satisfy the family? How hard is it for children who, for all we know, excelled in school, worked more than their peers, and collected all possible awards to feel like … failures?</p>
<p>PS I think I would have enjoyed a weekend at Mrs. Oldfort’s house. I am sure she is a delightful host, and she might have been surprised by how well-behaved. charming and soft-spoken the real life me is. And I could have taken the ballet dancers for a wild spin in the world of samba and salsa! :)</p>
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<p>Regarding jobs, it may not be an entitlement, but governments and elites have found to their great peril that when there are few/no jobs to be had or the conditions for obtaining/keeping them became too harsh, protests and even violent revolutions resulted. </p>
<p>French and Russian Revolutions are two cases in point. </p>
<p>As for the latter, I am of the opinion that ideally, college should be free as many American public universities used to be in California and NYC…provided the students are highly academically qualified or are prepared to undergo a rigorous evaluation/weedout process to ensure that in an open-admission environment.* </p>
<p>On the flipside, to ensure higher-ed taxpayer subsidies are being used most effectively and maintain the positive reputation of those educational institutions, it needs to be paired either with exceedingly high selective admissions or a rigorous weed out process to ensure only the most highly motivated and academically able students graduate if open-admissions for in-staters or in general are used. </p>
<p>CUNY’s policy of going from highly selective admissions to open admission without a systematic weed out process was one major reason why along with the '70s era NYC economic crisis why the city was forced to do away with free tuition and why CUNY’s academic reputation took a nose dive from the '70s till the late '90s. </p>
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<p>This is a somewhat less than cute anecdote. A temper tantruming two year old is not acting out of malice, and doesn’t need to be bullied.</p>
<p>What exactly is tigering? Making the kid do something he wouldn’t do by himself in order to please the parent? I look at it this way - the majority of kids get into activities because they’re influenced by someone - peers, teachers, businesses (through promotions/ads), family, church, athletes/actors/famous people. There may be a few outliers who have discovered something and are very passionate from within, but by and large, it’s started due to some external influence and sustained by the rewards and friendships of the activity.</p>
<p>If a child ends up doing something, I’d rather it be because of the influence of someone who cares about the child than someone for whom their own goals are more important than the interestsof the child. What I mean is I don’t particular care about the violin or piano, and neither do I care about TV, and if a child ends up spending several hours a day doing one of these, I’d rather it be what the parent wants than the TV guy. </p>
<p>When I see tiger versus non-tiger parents, I see a correlation between how much a parent is involved/absent and tiger/non-tiger behavior. Of course there are many highly involved parents who don’t tiger, but many non-tigers are minimally-involved with their kids. Agassi and the Chua girls (and probably many athletes of all races) were on one extreme on what the parent wanted, and there are many kids on the other side where the parent couldn’t care less what the kids did, and spent their day doing dope, and much worse. </p>
<p>I see the extent of a parent’s involvement/intrusion in the child’s life is not so much of how correct/bad it is, but rather it is just a reflection of the diversity in parenting, with their inherent benefits and disadvantages. If a parent fully supports a kid to do whatever he wants and not do anything he doesn’t want, there will be some kids who’ll turn out great because they used the freedom to pick up skills and independence while his/her peers were learning multiplication tables. And some of these kids may end up without any real skills and be bitter.</p>
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<p>Sorry, but you lost me at the end of that first line. There is a world of difference between parents introducing kids to activities and asking them to give it their best shot, and making them do something to … please the parents, and especially when the kid does not find it enjoyable. And, even worse, when the activity is meant to yield kudos and accolades for the parents --something most would notice easily if paying attention or … caring in the least. </p>
<p>My parents did believe in commitments, and made my sister and I finish activities we started, and we started a LOT. If we joined a team, we finished the season, but we were never forced to stay because the activity pleased our parents. The same for arts classes or book clubs. </p>
<p>It is not hard to recognize tigering. All you need to do is see the reactions of the kids and their parents. Guidance and control are two very different things. Kids are rarely focused on trophies and awards, but on what is fun. Kids are not “doing” something because it might look good on that resume later or help swaying an adcom. They tend to learn because it is fun and enjoyable. </p>
<p>Parents on the other hand … that is a different story, especially the ones obsessed with what higher learning could mean in terms of social climbing or simply crass bragging rights. And, those obsessed have earned a qualifier that says it all: is starts with a T and ends with an R.</p>
<p>Xiggi - my girls may be able to give you run for your money when it comes to salsa and samba. Two years living abroad taught them a lot of new skills. </p>
<p>We sent D2 to Kumon in 5th grade because she was struggling with doing simple calculations. Instead of learning math in class, she was worrying about if her teacher would call on her to do 14+12. She started with 1+1,1+2 until she was comfortable with multiplication and division. In 6 months she was a different student in math. She stopped going after a year. She graduated from high school with straight As in math.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately, the kids are the ones affected by parenting techniques, and they don’t have any say in the matter.</p>
<p>Kids with “tiger parents” may end up with fabulous GPA’s and SAT’s, but what does that parenting technique do to their creativity and intellectual curiosity?</p>
<p>Oldfort, I do not doubt that for a second, especially since they possess the right genes for agility and grace, and the discipline of a ballet dancer. It probably would look like a college version of Dancing with the Stars. You could be the judge and give me an A for effort. :)</p>
<p>What is Kumon?</p>
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<p>Why do you infer that they are mutually exclusive ? Look at all the new products coming out of Silicon Valley where there are a lot of employees whose backgrounds have some “tiger parenting” influence.</p>
<p>My children did not do any Kumon, however, I will find out more about “abacus Math” when my future grandchildren are ready.Only if their parents are interested.</p>
<p>Kumon is an after school learning center where children can get tutored in subjects in which they need help.</p>
<p>^Thanks Niquii77. I had never heard of it.</p>
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<p>Are the kids of the tiger parents the ones who are coming up with the new ideas?</p>
<p>Yes, and a great number of them hold patents.</p>
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<p>One would hope it increases their creativity and intellectual curiosity. DS and I would do a fair amount of math and electrical circuitry while he was in elementary school. I also removed TV from our household. So we spent a lot of time doing things like dabbling in circuits, preparing for math contests, and analyzing the physics of amusement park rides. OK, so he never knew what American Idol was and if he’s scarred for life because of that, then too bad, but spent a lot more time musing about things that many would never consider. </p>
<p>The main thing with us wasn’t that the kids had to do these x specific things - it was more of - here are a dozen different areas to consider. If you hate five of them, we’ll drop them; try the rest and you better pick one or two and go for it. </p>
<p>In the early years, all of them played chess, one reaching a state champ level (which isn’t spectacular at low grade levels), and I encouraged them to play in adult tournaments in addition to K-12. This really gets very young kids to realize that just because someone is much older, it doesn’t mean they’re necessarily better, which was a good lesson in life. But when they felt that they had outgrown whatever use they had for it, we just moved forward - they became teachers at the chess club they started at our library and turned to other things.</p>
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[An</a> 18-year-old wunderkind named top graduating senior](<a href=“Berkeley News | Berkeley”>Berkeley News | Berkeley)</p>
<p>I wonder if Ritankar Das parents used “tiger-style” parenting? He seems to be a down-to-earth genius who speaks kindly of his parents.
[UC</a> Berkeley junior wins prestigious Goldwater scholarship - The Daily Californian](<a href=“http://www.dailycal.org/2013/04/18/uc-berkeley-junior-wins-prestigious-goldwater-scholarship/]UC”>http://www.dailycal.org/2013/04/18/uc-berkeley-junior-wins-prestigious-goldwater-scholarship/)</p>
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<p>But nothing was gained from the extra day or two of practice when the family could have been at the Parthenon enjoying the sights. It made no difference whatsoever. If it was a “sacrifice,” it was a pointless one. You’re right, everything in moderation. There’s nothing “in moderation” about making kids sit in a hotel room practicing the same unimportant piano piece that they practiced the other 364 days out of the year.</p>