Don't send you daughters too far away to college.

Parents Social Lounge
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<p>Backhandgrip - I know that you are just using this board to vent, and you feel frustrated and lonely -- but I can see two indications from your post of things you are doing that are guaranteed to drive a wedge between your daughter and yourself.</p>

<p>The first:
[quote]
And daughter DOES NOT CALL ME. Whenever I get upset because daughter NEVER CALLS.......it's all MY fault.

[/quote]
My sense from this comment is that you call up your daughter to complain that she "never calls" ... or else when she does call, you gripe that she doesn't call more often. What a turn off! Your daughter will want to talk to you if you are positive and cheerful, ready to listen and to share good news -- but if you are always complaining that she doesn't call, or talking about how lonely you are because she lives far away or how sad you are that you can't spend more time with your grandchild....then she will want to avoid talking to you because all you are doing is making her feel upset and guilty with every contact. With a new baby she probably has her hands full -- I remember that I could hardly find time to take a shower when my children were infants. </p>

<p>So here are some suggestions:
1) Take up some new activities of your own, so you won't feel so depressed and when you talk to your daughter you will have something new & interesting to share.</p>

<p>2) Don't wait for her to call. Call her. I hardly ever call my Dad, but he's always called me regularly - just about every Sunday I will get a call. In all these years he's never asked me why I don't call -- and I'm always glad to hear from him. It's best if you start a routine of a regular time you will call and always call at around the same day & time - then your daughter will know to expect the call & be less likely to be tied up doing something else (like taking that shower that new moms can't find the time to take).</p>

<p>3) DON'T COMPLAIN! No matter what - not about the distance, not about how lonely you are, not about how sorry you are about missing the baby. Just be positive. </p>

<p>I'd like to note something: my own mother died when I was about your daughter's age. My mother never lived to see me get married or to see her grandchildren. I've often fantasized about what it would have been like to have had her around - but it was not to be. So, please, count your blessings. </p>

<p>And it's fine to post here to gripe - just no more getting down on your daughter for not calling.</p>

22

<p>OK - I do not mean to get down on you - I'm only trying to offer suggestions that will help build a better relationship with your daughter and her family. I separated my post into 2 parts because there is a 2nd thing about your posts that I see as being a big problem -- and something that may also be part of the reason your daughter avoids talking to you.</p>

<p>From your posts here, it seems clear that you are feeling envious and resentful of your daughter's in-laws because they live closer and are more involved with the new baby. This is a very dangerous feeling to harbor -- while it may be natural, it is destructive to the family and is not at all helpful. You need to accept that this is the current situation (it may not last forever) -- and be supportive -- which includes trying to be friends with your daughter's in-laws and speaking positively about them. I don't know whether any of your resentment creeps into conversations with your daughter - but if it does, that may be one more reason why your daughter avoids you. </p>

<p>Again - please don't take this post wrong. I know it sounds critical, but I don't mean to attack or hurt you. I just have been a daughter-in-law too, and I did not appreciate the petty rivalry between my MIL and my stepmom; I honestly did not want to hear them cutting each other down or commenting adversely on whatever they didn't like about each other, and I certainly didn't want that going on around my kids. </p>

<p>I really think that the best thing for you to do is to plan to visit your daughter a couple of times a year. If she doesn't have room in her house for you to stay, then book a room in a local motel. </p>

<p>I grew up living in the same town with my maternal grandparents; my paternal grandparents lived far away in another state (NY). But my maternal grandparents had a huge house and were alway very gracious - and when my NY grandma came to visit, she stayed in my other grandparents' home. I personally was much closer to my NY grandma, even though it was years between visits -- and even though she feuded with my mom. It had nothing to do with frequency of visits or degree of involvement -- we were just more kindred spirits -- and the best time was after I graduated from law school and went to visit my grandma - she was in her 80's - and I stayed several days in her apartment, while she reminisced and we giggled & gossiped like teenagers. So in the long run, it really doesn't have anything to do with distance; in fact, as a child I couldn't stand being around the grandmother who lived nearby because she was always nagging & criticizing. The distant grandma was always glad to see me and always had special things planned for our visits. </p>

<p>So you really have the ability to choose to be the "nice" grandma or the "fun" grandma if you want. Generosity of spirit will pay off in the long run.</p>

23

<p>Backhandgrip,</p>

<p>A big cyber hug to you. No matter what you are feeling right now take comfort in the fact that as a mom you have done your job well. You have raised your daughter to be independent, fearless and embrace life on so many levels - she got out of her comfort zone and went away to school and is carving her own life for her self.</p>

<p>Regarding your statement that she never calls you, she hasn't had time. You daughter is still growing and finding her sense of self as far as growing into her own womanhood is concerned and has really going through some of the most major life stressors at break neck speed with barely time to breathe.</p>

<p>She has finished college, got a job, got married, had a baby now making a big move with her husband. She probably hasn't even had time to process it all. One thing that she does know now; by having her own child she is beginning to understand the depth of the love you have for her.</p>

<p>Your role is now changing. I think that now she needs you more than ever. Your role is now continue to have the unconditional love that we have for our kids and to foster a level of interdependence; you are letting go to allow her to live her life but you also need to let her know that you are there if she needs you. I agree with Calmom that if your conversations start out with you never call me or blah, blah, blah it is not helping. Think back to when you were a new mom, things are still just as hairy and crazy same soup, different day. She probably has had days where if she got a shower in, it was a major accomplishment.</p>

<p>I think now you have to choose your role in her life. You can be the person that she comes to to get her vent off and be a safe place for her to do so. You have been there, done that so she is probably looking for your sage advice as se sets up her own home and goes through another period of readjustment. But if you come off as an additional stressor, she is not going to come to you and you'll push her away.</p>

<p>Take a step back, a deep breath, stop tuning up for your solo (going me, me, me) and reach out to her. Make the effort to set up "your time" together. Start out just listening, in a non judmental manner. Give advice if she asks for it and be happy for her life choices.<br>
Getting her a digital camera to take pictures of the baby is a good idea.</p>

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<p>Calmom's advice is terrific. i think that if you follow it, you will be happier and your relationship with your daughter will be better. I'll just add that after they reach a certain age, making kids feel guilty for a parent's unhappiness is just about always counter-productive. It makes them more defensive rather than more kind and friendly.</p>

25

<p>This is why I have limited our daughter's choice of schools to one that is within 8 hour drive or so from our home in Maryland. If she were to go to school in California, she would probably settle in the west coast.</p>

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<p>BHG- hugs to you. This is a tough stage you're in.</p>

<p>I'm not great at letting go so I can't give you practical advice, but I can tell you that I grew up with a set of grandparents a few miles away, and a set of grandparents overseas.... and this in the age of expensive long distance phone calls and plane tickets.</p>

<p>I was definitely closer (emotionally) to the long distance grandparents than to the physically closer ones. Part of it was personality, age, etc. but much of it was due to the investment that the overseas grandparents made in being grandparents. They wrote constantly, even when we didn't write back. They sent stupid and funny gifts-- nothing expensive, but things they saw and then wrote, "this reminded us of you". By the time I was in high school, and fortunately, they were alive and in good health, I felt a bond with them as if they'd lived around the corner. They visited every other year; we visited less frequently but each grandchild got a trip by themselves once we were old enough to fly independently.</p>

<p>The relationship with your daughter is what it is.... and it will get better, I am sure, once she settles in to her new life. The relationship with the baby is yours to form-- the baby can't talk back!</p>

<p>When I attended my grandfather's funeral, friends of his came over to ask which grandchild I was (big family, lots of grandkids, cousins, etc.). When I said my name, they all said, "oh you're the one who____" and it astonished me that his cronies knew everything about me. He had taken on the job of being a grandfather so thoroughly that his friends could rattle off the family history just as well as we could.</p>

<p>You get to invest in that child right now....so by the time he's old enough to know who you are, you'll already be part of his life. Go find some stacking tupperware containers or plastic spoons to send with a note, "can't wait to play with you".</p>

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<p>Hugs to you, backhandgrip! You're in a difficult spot just now, but in time you'll feel better. Somehow people usually can adjust to separation from those they love most - thank the gods we humans are so adaptable.</p>

<p>I agree with much of the advice above, but wanted to ask what your own situation was like when you were your d's age? Did you go to school out of town and move away from home as a young adult, or are you still living in close proximity to where you were raised? If your family tends to stay settled, it might be particularly hard for you to adjust to having a child so far from the nest - it just can't feel "right." But there are far-flung families that still maintain emotional closeness. Once your d has worked through the challenging point she's at just now, she'll have more energy for her relationship with you.</p>

<p>I especially agree with those posters who mention that complaining about the lack of phone contact is counter-productive. I like the suggestion of setting up a time to phone your d regularly (my mom calls me every Sunday night at 8 PM - we're actually supposed to take turns, but she always remembers if I don't). If you propose the idea at a time your d seems receptive, maybe by saying "I love talking to you but I know how busy you are - how about if I call you every (1-2 weeks) at (fill in the time)?"</p>

<p>Something that has worked in our own far-flung family (my mom, sibs, and I all live in different states) is for Grandma and Grandpa to make the time and financial sacrifice to visit regularly when the grandchildren are young. Yes, Florida is far away - and I don't mean every month or two - but it's an investment in your own enjoyment and emotional well-being to watch your grandchild grow. If you're planning how to make that happen (looking for cheap flights, booking vacation time at work), the geographical distance might not seem as daunting.</p>

<p>Thanks for raising a topic that will eventually affect so many of us.</p>

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<p>Back in the dark ages I went to college instate. BUT I got my first job quite a distance from home. I know it's hard on parents when their kids are far away and these "milestones" take place. My own mom and dad often commented on how much they wished I'd move back to our home state. I know that visiting was not the same, but they did and we loved having them. We also loved taking the grandkids to see them. Our DD will likely be going to college on the opposite coast or as far south as she can...both far away. We will miss her a lot...but we're looking on the bright side...she will be going where we would love to vacation!! And our state universities are not places I would want her to attend college.</p>

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<p>CalMom....you gave very good advice that means well. I wish you could talk to MY MOM....she could use that advice!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>BHG, </p>

<p>I can actually feel you tense up, as I tense up with you at the thought of having our own daughter on a phone plan waiting for the phone to ring, rather than, on common occasion, in our happy lives—instead of us watching her raise her own family (husband and children—our son-in-law and grandchildren—and her and her’s watching us ‘gracefully’ get older [?], we will simply accumulate news about each other’s lives from diverse phone calls and the occasional holiday dinner.
Yours is a true cautionary tale of our times.</p>

<p>Like Taxguy, we told our daughter she could go anywhere she wants as long as it was within a days drive, and she took our advice.</p>

<p>To all those who say, this is part of the process, I say, what process? </p>

<p>Unless you mean this utterly new (economic) paradigm whereby friends and family have become insignificant when compared to the careers and academics of the upwardly mobile classes; where we measure our affections by the size of our phone plans and vacation budgets. What a lovely world we will create. </p>

<p>Many, of a socially conscious frame of mind, complain of the disintegration of our neighborhoods, towns, city-squares and local commerce (in favor of the, Mega-malls, Walmarts, Costcos and interstates of this plain-new-world) but fail to see that this is simply a macrocosmic outcome of a microcosmic failure: the devaluing of our families. </p>

<p>It seems: </p>

<p>1) Children don’t need parents who exceed their phone plan.
2) Grandchildren should know their grandparents in the same way that they know Santa Clause—around the holidays bearing gifts and as something of a happy and peculiar fairytale.
3) Economic interests not only trump familial interest, they outright crush them.
4) We are not at all happy about wilting neighborhoods and towns and cultural communities, but are cool with wilting families.
5) Apparently “It Takes a Village” but not a family. </p>

<p>Thoreau said he found the train to be the worst invention of all time, because people would begin to know and seek out friends and economic interests from hundreds of miles away without ever knowing their own neighbors…I don’t know, but I would at least like to know my grandchildren</p>

<p>Somewhere, down some winding driveway, there is a well landscaped non-descript institutional brick building with a small room and a bed with your name on it.
Life’s journey: from the nursery to the nursing home?</p>

<p>[BGH, on the other hand, considering your situation is now what it is, some of the advice above seems pretty sound to me.]</p>

<p>.</p>

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<p>I could have been your daughter...Just a few suggestions...Love your daughter (and her family) and LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN (and talk very little). At this time in her life, your daughter doesn't want to hear how you want her close to you. She is starting a new life with a baby and husband, and is probably exhausted. She wants to be able to vent without being told how you would solve every little problem that comes up...she needs to make her own decisions, and make her own mistakes (with her husband)...Be thankful that she has a safe place to live and that her husband has a job (not always easy in this economy!!).</p>

<p>My mom would complain weekly that I lived 30 minutes closer to my MIL! I didn't really enjoy those phone calls!!! I still call my parents weekly, but I get teary-eyed when I see grown daughters shopping (or lunching) with their mothers. I missed out on that life...If your daughter doesn't feel that way right now, she may in a few years...</p>

<p>Try to shed the mom-uniform and wear the friend-uniform from now on....Keep all conversations light and newsy--write down notes during the week so you have something to talk about...if she can't take the time out for weekly phone calls, write friendly letters (and don't complain if she doesn't write back!)</p>

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<p>Since few daughter's have responded, I will. I go to boarding school several states away from home and will certainly go to college out of state. Most of my friends do not have great relationships with their mothers and are bugged by their constant calls. I, on the other hand, call my mother most every day. I always will. She is truly my greatest sounding board. A big reason for that is that she's not clingy. She loves that I am out in the world doing what I love. She encourages me to get out there are live! Also, I can always count on her to be open about anything. Friends are shocked at what I'm able to tell my mom. </p>

<p>If you are loving, accepting and happy about your daughter's new life she will want you in it. If you are jealous and clingy, she won't.</p>

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<p>Thank you VERY much for the posts. Many really understand, even the kids here. I really appreciate it.Also, thank you for any advice.
Calmom; Her not calling reallly got to a head at the time of the last major hurricane.She just was calling once every two weeks and when we talked it was obvious she had other things on her mind.I was getting angrier and angrier about it but, of course, bit my tongue.Oh yes, I would call, always leave an unanswered message. Then , the hurricane was on it's way, usual routine, I call and leave messages, no response from her. The hurricane comes and goes, still no call. We continue to leave messages, no response.No emails. Then husband and I are taking a walk, she calls and tells Son her cell phone battery is low and she just wanted to let us all know they were all safe. So, that's when I said, now, this treatment towards us is RUDE.
nd because I say something, I get mad, I'm the bad guy.</p>

<p>Nothing substitutes for personal contact. Is anyone else having email problems with their kids?What I mean is, this is NOT satisfying for me.I write long emails. Most times Daughter blows them off completely.Or when she emails it's a few sentences. No substance at all to them. One time I commented, "And you 're supposed to be an English teacher?" So of course I took heat for that but really, when you have some acummulated age, and something noticiably strikes you............do you just keep quiet? And she never answers my directed conversation, like if I ask a question. I'll have to look into the web cam idea. Thank you.</p>

<p>Thank you all again.I'll try to give her more time and space. Many people must have this kind of problem with their grown kids.I appreciate your comments and really enjoy hearing from folks all over the country.</p>

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<p>BHG:</p>

<p>It's hard to know that your daughter and you are no longer as close as you used to be and that you are missing on your grandchild's growing up years. You might consider asking your daughter to take photos on a regular basis and send them to you via email, or post them on a website that you can visit.</p>

<p>Is your son-in-law's hometown the same as the town where he and your D met in college, or is it yet another one? I understand Woodwork's arguments about mobility undermining family closeness, but sometimes we cannot pick and choose where the job opportunities are. We moved to the Midwest and later to Europe before returning to the East Coast. We urged my MIL to move to our city after she retired so that we could be close. But that was 18 years after we got married. She missed the early years of our first child, but has been around since the birth or our second one.</p>

<p>Hang in there.</p>

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<p>Parents really can't dictate where the kids will end up, even if they attend college near home. We didn't restrict either kid's college search, perhaps because although we're living solidly in the upper midwest (Michigan), we have lots of family on each coast (CA, WA, NY, NH, ME, etc.). And both kids want to live in vital big cities -- and Detroit doesn't qualify in important respects. So now they're living in Chicago (only 200 mi away) and NY (700 mi.). But we're happy that they're progressing in their early careers. No marriages on the horizon yet.</p>

<p>We do miss the frequent contact, even by telephone and email, with the kids. They have their own lives to live and shortly after they graduated from college they definitely moved away from home psychologically. This means that they don't want and really can't maintain a running conversation with a parent. We're not part of their everyday lives or thinking. It has not been easy for us, but again we view this as inevitable. And we've gradually adjusted our expectations and appreciate the times we can spend together and make opportunities to do so.</p>

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<p>Also, consider using Instant Messaging. I have found that it is easy to carefully word questions when Instant Messaging, so that they don't sound negative...You could even set up a time that both of you would be online so that you know that she has time to chat. I personally like GAIM, because it can keep a log of all of your conversations. When I'm lonely I read through old conversations....Try to keep conversations short and sweet...don't get negative...If I don't like something that my kids say, I often will just type "hmmmm"....they get the message without having to hear a lecture... Be sure to offer to sign off of the conversation when things are slowing down...then it doesn't get drawn out too long...</p>

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<p>Marite: How did you handle the situation with yur own parents as I believe you once said you moved away to college and stayed away? Has it gone well or has there been painful times too? Just wondering.</p>

<p>Photos. Yes, she sends occasional photos. It's nice to see her face.</p>

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<p>Dear backhand, my son is heading to the opposite coast in just a few weeks. I know full well that he may never return East. But I would NEVER do what my sister did. She and her husband packed up and moved to their only daughters college town. As soon as she graduated she moved 2 hours away and NEVER visits. In fact she will sometimes sneak into town to visit her aunt and avoid her parents all together. Please, please, keep your distance and don't whine to your daugher, or you may lose her. When you speak to her, be happy and supportive. You have had a baby, so that is a great thing you will have in common: Send her baby books and remind her of "when you were born stories". Send her a digital camera and instruct her how to upload pictures for free to kodaks site or elsewhere. Send instant messages. Shop for cheap airfare and stay in a hotel. Good luck.</p>

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<p>BHG, I totally understand, even though I don't have a daughter and my son is not married and he is nearby. This summer, he has finally, broken away from home, so I understand. I know I need to get a life away from him. </p>

<p>I know whining does not help, either. My husband and I do and it really does not help. Not that I'm saying you are!</p>

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<p>Most of my siblings moved away for college. Only one did not. My parents expected it of us. I was frequently homesick, especially the first year, but we had a nice family reunion the summer of my freshman year. Unfortunately, my parents died before my children were born. So did my father-in-law. We are very fortunate to be close to my MIL. She dotes on my kids and they on her.</p>