Don't send you daughters too far away to college.

Parents Social Lounge
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<p>Backhand,</p>

<p>I feel for you. Boy, I really do. Considering how the overwhelming majority of children don't stay local as they start their adult lives my "only" will likely spend her adult years long distance as well. My parents had four kids so even though we didn't include them in our lives any more than your daughter, there were enough of us that one of the adult children or one of the grandchildren was always around. I won't be so lucky.

[quote]
but the thought of Mother-In-Law having constant access to my daughter's family hurts me."

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I have one piece of advice (and I hope that I can follow it whenever my daughter marries and starts spending holidays, vacations and whatever with her new in-laws). Try to fight off resenting the local grandparents. </p>

<p>My husband and I didn't even have the long distance issue and my MIL was resentful of any time not spent with her. My parents and in-laws lived two miles apart and my husband and I would hustle between houses during the holidays. We made EVERY effort to see that our daughter spent time with both sets of grandparents and my mother-in-law made it clear that she felt we favored my parents. In actuality we spent much more time with her because my husband's family is so small that my D was the only grandchild for some time and my mom has grandchildren in abundance. Over the years and after many not so subtle comments, I was the one who started feeling resentful.</p>

<p>I can tell from reading your past posts that you are a strong personality. I am as well. It would be really difficult for me to go through feeling so hurt without saying something. I think Calmom and the other posters have given great advice. I hope that I can adhere to some of it when my time comes.</p>

<p>One other thought:
Your daughter might be married with a baby but she is only 23. I was still working out tons of mother-daughter relationship issues at that age. Her lack of communication might be her way of letting you know that she is now an "adult". I bet that she will still need her mom after her first night of dealing with a colicky baby. A mother-in-law just ain't the same as a mom.</p>

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<p>kosha; Thanks for the idea. That IS a problem, negativism. .It's very hard for a parent to not give advice in an email. It seems like there is so little personal contact in emailing it's easy to do. And it's easy if you do write longer emails to offend a 23 year old with just one word. Like when you are talking to yur child face to face, one word has little impact as the emotional context is quite important, and the eye contact too. But in an email, one word, that the writer may have mischosen or is read in another's mindset can just, throw the entire email out the window! Like, I'm trying to MAKE CONTACT, have a relationship, and the other party is offended by one word.(one of 1000) So then you end up having to explain yourself when the whole point of the email in the first place was just establishing some contact so they will tell me more about themselves.
Emailing is not working.</p>

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<p>Thanks Elleneast for understanding the situation.
I also think my daughter is aware I was a 'supermom'.I spent so much time with my kids and did so much with them. By the time #4 came along I knew just how I wanted to raise him. So, maybe as you say, D is working out her own issues and needs more time and space.
But I 'll tell you one thing, I'm happy not babysitting. I did my fair share of childcare and am pleased to leave that behind!</p>

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<p>Elleneast; Where are your kids going to college? Nearby?</p>

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<p>Elleneast, I had to laugh because my H and I in our earlier years of marriage would spend the Thanksgiving meal with on set of parents and rush away for dessert with the other set, just to keep family peace -feasible because they lived 20 minutes apart, but a pain. Then my moved a little further away. It later got to the point where my MIL would call 6 months in advance to announce such and such holiday is at her house. It reminded me of the "I called it first" game. My mother was so annoyed that she just picked one holiday per year that she would have annually and she expected us to be there. The rest of them we could have in our home, or just go wherever-ie:sister-in-law, inlaws, other relatives.</p>

<p>My sister-in-law offered me the same advice as you did, Backhandgrip. I have 2 sons and no daughters. My sister-in-law did what your daughter did and lives in H's hometown, but only about 250 miles away. She makes it back 3-4 times a year, and not always with her 3 children. Her parents are no longer able to travel to her home, so it is difficult. Fotunately, there are 4 other grandchildren nearby for the grandparents to see.</p>

46

<p>Backhand,</p>

<p>My daughter is currently in NYC at school. We see quite a lot of her now but she plans on going to med school and inevitably will go to the best school that she can get into. She will apply all over the place. East coast, west coast - who knows where she will end up? </p>

<p>
[quote]
It later got to the point where my MIL would call 6 months in advance to announce such and such holiday is at her house. It reminded me of the "I called it first" game.

[/quote]

northeastmom,
My MIL usually calls around Labor Dad to try and lock in both Thanksgiving and Christmas. She is a pip.</p>

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<p>Just a warning for those parents who want to control their children's lives...I was brought up by very controlling parents. I was sent away to an isolated college 10 hours away from home because my parents felt I would be "safe" there. They chose my major for me and refused to let me change my major. I got married a week after my college graduation because my parents said that "good girls" could not live alone, so otherwise I would have had to move back home...After my wedding, my husband and I moved 10 hours away from my home (and 15 hours away from his). We lived there for almost 5 years...enjoying the independence. When I got pregnant with my daughter, (my son was about 2), we decided that we were tired of the long distance relationship with the grandparents (and the days that it took to get the kids to warm up to these strangers), and moved closer to both sets of parents (now we are within 2 1/2 hours of my parents, and 2 hours from his parents). We have enjoyed the kids getting to know their grandparents, but we needed to break away in the beginning and exert our independence...</p>

<p>Although I got the "controlling genes" from my parents, I do hope that I have a better relationship with my kids. I encouraged them to discover what they wanted to major in, and I expected them to find a college that fit their personalities...I helped of course, but I did not exert my opinions upon them...My son graduated from college in the spring, and chose to accept a job close to home because he felt it fit his personality better...(he also had a job offer about 8 hours away). I told him that I would not interfere with his personal life if he chose the closer job... We encouraged him to find a place to rent instead of living at home, because I knew that I would have control issues. :) My mom's attitude about him living close by? "For some reason kids that are pushed away by their parents just want to live closer, while the parents who want their kids close by, end up having their kids move far away."</p>

<p>My daughter is still in college (about 5 hours away) but I know that when she needs to make a decision about her future, that she will have to decide what fits her dreams, and not what will please me...I just want to have a great relationship with my grown kids, and by allowing them their independence as young adults, I hope to enjoy the relationship as it matures...</p>

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<p>I also wanted to point out to BHG that even if you are all living in the same city- isn't any guarentee of relationships
My inlaws see the grandkids barely once a year ( in the same city) by their choice.
My mother who will be moving next week to live with my brother & his wife as a babysitter for their 7 year old across the country, would love to see my girls more often, but she doesn't want to visit me here and what she has in mind for a visit is for them to perch on the couch in her condo and be interrogated. Not big on their priority list.
I can't say i blame them.</p>

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<p>BHG - I am totally sympathetic to the way you are feeling. But the causes you ascribe to it may be more complicated than simply your daughter's physical location. Others have wisely pointed out that your daughter may need some space to feel confidant in her identity as the adult head of her own family. There is also the fact that levels of communication vary widely from family to family, and even from child to child within a family, even before the children leave home. I'm sure that my own mother wishes that I called and visited more often and included her in my life to a larger degree than I do. But frankly, what I do already feels like it is motivated primarily from guilt and obligation. More relevant to you, our patterns of sharing and expectations are the same now as they were when I was still in high school and living with her 30+ years ago. She always wanted to be chummier with me than I was interested in once I hit high school age. And you know what? She played my role with her own family. She left home at 17, moved far away, and never looked back until she was 50+ and sought out a closer relationship with her sister.</p>

<p>I agree with the suggestions that this is the time for you to work on your own independance, just as your daughter is working on hers. Even if your daughter called more frequently or lived closer to you, she has her own life to lead. Do things for yourself that you couldn't do when you were concentrating on raising kids. Cultivate your relationships with your spouse, your siblings, or your own parents if you have them. Develop new hobbies and interests. Become involved in other childrens' lives through volunteer work. Or travel. Or get a new job. Seek fulfillment in your own life. A closer relationship with your daughter may follow on its own. But even if it doesn't, you'll be happier.</p>

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<p>Your right.
Enjoy all these posts and thanks for the input. It's helpful to hear all viewpoints.</p>

<p>If anyone is still listening here's my dilemma. Since D has married her relationship with me (us) has changed 100%. Should I tell her this or forget it, or would it change anything or matter if I did? I think it probably would not be right to tell her, it may put more stress on the relationship.
All contact with my D before her marriage was happy. She was happy and it was always 'Hey, what's up?!" And lots and lots of cheerful conversation. Since she got married contact is sporatic, and when we speak she just says, "yeah, yeah , yeah......" and her tone of speech is measured and it's like she is not there. I feel like shaking her and saying, "are you okay?" I know she is happy.She just wants us OUT. (?)</p>

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<p>I want to offer another perspective to BHG.</p>

<p>It is true that your D has transitioned from being a daughter to being a wife and mother. That relationship has to take priority, and it is not always an easy one to make. The most important thing you can do is to help her become her own person, neither just your daughter or mother of your first grandchild, but her own self.
I also think that living with her in-laws is not always smooth sailing. In Asian cultures, for example, the relationship between MIL and DIL is the most conflict-ridden. Even if the MIL is well meaning, she is in a position of authority. It is her house, her town, she knows everything, the DIL is the one who has to adapt to new ways of doing things. Even the folding of laundry can lead to tensions. And, of course, MIL knows everything about raising baby and DIL is a neophyte.
Perhaps this is the scenario that your D is living through, perhaps it is not. If it is, even to a small extent, I imagine your D does not want to whine to you. Most of the time, the disagreements will be trivial anyway. And, after all, she is grateful that her in-laws are helping her H and her financially by letting them stay with them.
Perhaps you could change the tone of your communications. Instead of asking how things are with her, share what is happening to you and her siblings; send pictures. Maybe you can send money for her, her husband and child to visit you once in while, instead of you visiting them.</p>

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<p>I agree with emerald...proximity is not guarantee of a good relationship. My DH's family mostly lives withing 1 hour of us and his mother lives about 1 mile from us. We very rarely see or talk to any of them. They just are not a close group of people. My family, otoh, is very close. We know what's up with everyone else, we share holidays and happy events and support each other in times of need. I really have a great family. </p>

<p>BUT, when I was in my early twenties, I felt a bit stifled by all that family togetherness. I also distinctly remember have trouble "relabelling" our roles in my mind: daughter to mother and wife, parents to grandparents, etc. And when my mom criticized my housekeeping or childcare or marital issues, I really resented it and avoided talking to her. Gradually, as I matured and had kids, I saw the tremendous value in extended family relationships. Hopefully, when your DD gets settled, she will too. Until then, I would try to be loving and supportive and uncomplaining. Send little "care packages" to baby and mom...toys or clothes for baby, a pampering item for mom. Maybe make a date to spend the day together shopping, eating, or whatever. I remember not wanting to be overwhelmed by my family's "help" but I was always glad they were waiting lovingly in the wings.</p>

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<p>No! Do not point out to your daughter that your relationship has changed. For one thing, she already knows that. For another, it will most certainly sound like a complaint. Nor would I ask her if everything is okay though I would say that if there's anything that, now or anytime, is not okay, she can always come to you. I would tell her that no matter what, if she ever needs you for anything, or needs to tell you something, you are there for her. You need to keep the channels of communication open. You need to sent short breezy emails or leave short breezy telephone messages, "Hi! Just wanted to say hello before heading off to my new pottery making class." "Hi! I'm mailing you a copy of a video/book/cd I really loved and thought you'd enjoy." Let her know that you are always eager and open to hearing from her and that you will not be judgemental about what she might want to share. It's a fine line between not overwhelming her with attention, and making sure she knows you are always open to hearing from her, but I think it has to be drawn.</p>

<p>I'd be interested in knowing whether she is having as little contact with pre-marriage friends as she is with you but I realize there's no good way to find that out without spying on her.</p>

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<p>How long has she been married and how old is the baby? Those issues might be entering into this question...</p>

<p>Is it possible that your daughter does not have the privacy to talk on the phone? If her in-laws are right there, it might be difficult for her to talk to you...It is possible that she might not be getting all of the phone messages...I would also wonder about whether she could be in an abusive relationship...Does her husband control the communications between you? Obviously don't ask her that question...but a sudden change of personality could signal problems at home...It is probably her just trying to exert her independence, but watch for other warning signs.... </p>

<p>She might also be afraid that if she does say something negative, you might try to offer your solution, instead of just listening...Be sure to offer your love to her always, and let her know that you are always there....</p>

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<p>Backhandgrip,</p>

<p>Your heartfelt post has clearly resonated with many.</p>

<p>While I have encouraged my kids to become "world citizens," as Mini says, I think it is presumptuous of those of us whose kids are still in college, and (thank goodness ;)) have not yet made us grandparents, to claim we have it all figured out.</p>

<p>While I did encourage my D to spend six months in China, she had neither a husband nor a child there. I knew her primary family was us.</p>

<p>Were she to have a child at that distance, or any distance more than a few hours away, I would miss the opportunity for the frequent skip-a-generation interaction I was privileged to have with my own grandparents growing up. They lived in a neighboring apartment building in New York City and were a frequent "home away from home" for me. I grew up with cousins and we gathered at my grandparents' to see slide shows of old family pictures weekly.</p>

<p>It is so true that while our globe has become smaller, some of our neighborhoods have suffered. Growing up as part of an extended family is becoming a rare experience. There is nothing like sharing daily experiences with people. Newly minted adults are heading where the jobs or lifestyles are, rather than staying "down on the farm" or even back in the old city. I myself relocated for my husband's job, but fortuntely am close enough to NYC to make it back for an occasional day. </p>

<p>Much of the advice you have been given is excellent, and I hope to remember it for when I am in your position. Make yourself an attractive respite for your D. Listen to her, and try to limit any complaints or whines. Keep your IM sessions short and entertaining. Send her, by mail, funny cartoons or articles of interest. Let her know you are delighted to hear from her; use positive reinforcement. Share her joy in her child; it is the rare parent who doesn't bask in that.</p>

<p>I hope you will be rewarded with responsiveness from her. Please keep us posted. </p>

<p>P.S. At least Florida is a very attractive place to visit!</p>

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<p>Thanks, Kosha. I was wondering about--and hinting at--the same thing.</p>

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<p>BHG,</p>

<p>I was a prodigal daughter. Give her a little time. </p>

<p>I agree with Marite's point that it may not be a bed of roses to live with in-laws. You have great advice here.</p>

<p>Try to look at the withdrawal the same way you looked at other developmentally appropriate but unpleasant behaviors, like tantrums. If a three year old is pushing you away, you don't take it personally. If a nine year old doesn't want a good night kiss, that's normal too... you see where I am going.</p>

<p>I would keep the contact one sided. Here's my idea: </p>

<p>Write letters to the baby, that are to be saved & read to him when he is older. Write letters (NOT emails) to the baby about your D as a child, or what you did today, or your own childhood, or whatever crosses your mind... Pour out all your love towards the baby (at whom you are not mad.) I guarantee she will save the letters and love them and it will take the dynamic of disappointment and irritation and MELT it.</p>

<p>Just like when your toddler is screaming in rage at the grocery store, rise above this and be as loving and calm as possible until the winds change.</p>

<p>My kids are closest to the GM who lives the farthest. (In fact, she was the prickliest parent of the four.) But we adore her, because she is just HIGH on our kids. She is fun, the communicates, she sends little gifts... </p>

<p>Even if you do not have the money to be physically there a great deal, all you have to communicate is how very important this child is. It will come through. </p>

<p>If you really want to change you mood, and you are up for a challenge ;) practice sending beams of appreciation to your inlaws for being loving parents to their son, your D & your grandchild. Maybe even write THEM a nice card or two! </p>

<p>I really think that just marinating in the good feelings (that you can feel genuine about) can change the whole dynamic. There is not a D alive who does not prefer a great relationship with her Mom. It'll swing back eventually if you just remain neutral and available.</p>

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<p>I know this is pop psychology and I apologize for it but I'm really beginning to subscribe to the theory that there's three ways to deal with conflict: attack, avoid or confide. The vast majority of our relationship problems are because most of us use the attack (you never call, you don't respond to e-mails, I don't know what's going on in your life) or avoid (I just won't make any contact, I'll make small talk, I won't make a big issue of it and maybe it will go away) method. Pretty unproductive. With confide, it's more about "I feel sad that we're not closer" and how can we together address this issue. That may be the track to take on the closeness issue. It gives her an opportunity to tell you how she feels without her feeling like she's being judged or found wanting.</p>

<p>On the in-law front, there really isn't anything you can do about that. And many posters have rightly pointed out that it isn't about the proximity - quality over quantity. I would suggest that YOU buy the video camera and make tapes of yourselves and send them. Take the high road and establish that you're loving, caring grandparents. My MIL calls my college daughter every Sunday afternoon at 2:00. She does all the talking (and advice giving - she's a superstar at that!). My D's roommate and she joke that if their dorm room phone rings,it's only one person - my MIL. But my daughter has really developed a relationship with her and when my MIL had to cancel out on their planned trip to Paris this summer, my D was really disappointed.</p>

<p>FWIW, what I hear is that you and your daughter used to have a great close relationship. The marriage and baby have changed that. You say that you know she is happy but that she wants you out. I don't know that I would jump to that conclusion. She sounds overwhelmed and in dealing with the stress the last thing she wants is her own mother putting demands on her - she has enough as it is. And so maybe she's taking it out on the one person she knows she CAN take it out on - you. They say we are most cruel to the ones we love the most and who can take it the most because we know they won't stop loving us, no matter what. </p>

<p>I know you're frustrated and hurt (my D never replies to my e-mails either but I've learned that she will IM pretty openly with me and I just use that instead). But I think that she will come back to you, especially if you're sympathetic and patient. You can establish your own relationship with your grandchild. And keep venting here instead of to her - we can handle it probably better than she can now.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>BHG,
Your problem is one I can relate to. My parents and my in-laws married and moved away. My husband and I did the same thing. When our parents retired, they moved back to their hometowns. Neither my husband or I have ever had relatives within an hours drive of us now, or when growing up. Once I had kids, I realized what we were missing and have tried to talk to my kids about how I would really like them to settle within a few hours of us. Since our oldest is still in college, it's all up in the air.</p>

<p>I absolutely agree that a cyber relationship is not a satisfying one. My in-laws have found a reasonable solution to getting to know their grandkids - vacations. We take annual vacations with them and my husbands brother and sisters and all their kids in different parts of the United States. The kids get along well, and suprisingly, so do we adults. Those of us on the east coast get together for Thanksgiving and the last two years my in-laws have joined us. BTW, that's my parents, my in-laws, and my sister and brother in law and nieces and nephews. I do envy people that have family nearby and enjoy them but as Marite said, living nearby is not a gurantee of happiness. I would like to give it a shot though!</p>

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<p>Perhaps a light-hearted "I'm sorry, I've been an idiot!" style card might help...If you let her know that you really miss her and that you realized you may have come on too strong, she might be willing to open up the lines of communication again...DO NOT say anything that she might have done wrong, just take ALL of the responsibilty....</p>

<p>Understand that her husband might be "protecting" her from you also...my husband often will become upset with my parents if I mention something that they said...I found that it was usually better if I don't fill in all of the blanks about our conversations...He doesn't like to see me hurt, and wants to protect his whole family from harm...even if it is just an unkind word...</p>