<p>He didn’t fail any first semester courses but he did get some low grades. The school report gets a little hazy, and I’ll have to talk to the couseling office to be sure. The university sends the grades to the high school, but you have to follow up to make sure that this happens. In other words, it’s supposed to happen automatically, but the wise applicant checks to be sure. It’s possible that either the school didn’t send the midyear report because my S didn’t ask them to, or that they did, but it didn’t contain the new information from the university. My S doesn’t remember. When your whole life is a lie and you’re making everything up, things get a little fuzzy, I guess. It is entirely possible for the school to send out a midyear transcript without the midyear grades–believe it or not. His high school is huge and the counseling office seems greatly understaffed. The first time they sent out his transcripts, the transcripts contained the courses he was registered for at the high school (a safety requirement for the school) rather than the university courses he was attending. When I noticed this error, we had to arrange for the corrected transcript to be resent. I suspect that neither Oberlin nor the other schools received the first semester grades, or I think some questions would have been asked. On the other hand, I wonder if his teacher, lobbying for him, might have convinced them that he should still be admitted. I get the feeling that Oberlin has a reverse opinion about the dual degree–want to have as many students pursue it as possible. I got this vibe during our visits. Some music schools really seemed to discriminate against students who want to do anything in addition to music. They seem to default to a “you must not really be a serious musician” or “you must be looking for a safety net if you fail” rather than seeing such students as a positive. Oberlin seems to be the opposite–the string chair spoke glowingly of the many students who make the dual degree work and seemed particularly interested in my S because he had the multiple interests and abilities. If Oberlin has this culture and the teacher has strong pull with the college, I think he might be able to bring the admissions committee along. Just speculation on my part, and it doesn’t really help my son at this point, to figure out what to do now.</p>
<p>I would be of the school of thought of trying a gap year, a lot of music students do this if they don’t get into their dream school, and in his case, it would give him a chance to work on whatever the issues are (more on that in a bit). One suggestion, talk to Oberlin and see if they would be willing to do a deferred admission for him (I don’t know if they would go along with it, have no experience with it), but might be worth a phone call. Oberlin from what I have heard of it is pretty flexible with things, so might very well be understanding enough to defer it, maybe pending him finishing his senior year (again, before someone slams me, I offer that as a suggestion, I am not claiming I know whether they will do that).</p>
<p>I strongly suggest working with a professional, especially someone who has worked with gifted/genius level kids with school issues, what you write about is not uncommon. It could be a learning disorder or something like ADD, it could also be what is known IME as ‘gifted kid burnout’, where for a lot of reasons they can flame out. One of the more common reasons, which know only too well (myself), is that if it comes easy to him (which the high grades and SAT scores and such tend to indicate), he may have gotten by with relatively little work for many years, then hit the hard stuff at the tail end of high school and collapsed because it didn’t come so easy (OP, you would know that better than I, just putting it out there), or he could have problems with handling load. A professional can help with strategies to allow him to handle it…the worst part with a really bright kid is they have an infinite ability to rationalize what they are doing, believe me I did that, to rationalize it away and so forth, it made when I finally used a therapist (over other issues) very ‘interesting’, because I would be talking about less than stellar stuff from my past, and I would be explaining things away I shouldn’t have been…so it comes very, very easy (and I probably am nowhere near as bright as your son is:). </p>
<p>The reason I suggest deferring or gap year is that as much as he loves music, in a conservatory he would likely run into the same problems. Despite popular myth of how ‘easy’ conservatory class load is, there is a lot of responsibility there. If he ducked orchestra this year, for example, he would be in deep trouble if he did the same thing there, or if in ensembles, their rehearsals and coaching. Students in conservatory also have to fit their practicing in, on violin that is going to be quite a few hours, for example, and it is up to the student to figure out when to do it and do it, no one schedules practice time for him, and then comes the fun of finding where to practice, too, you go to practice at 8 at night and all the rooms are filled, etc…plus a gap year is an additional year of maturity, being bright does not mean being emotionally ready,sometimes the two are light years apart…</p>
<p>One thing I will say for sure, this isn’t the end of the world, take a deep breath, it will be okay. Going to a therapist or counselor or professional doesn’t mean someone is mentally ill or suicidal or whatnot, it simply means they have life issues or emotional issues to work through:). Plus as others have pointed out, your son is 17, that alone is a lot…bumps happen to people, I have had more than a few myself, and they are not the end of the world, despite what they feel at the time:). I really wish you luck and sending what good energy my way I can send:) </p>
<p>.( More of my .02). I think that it’s very important not to diagnose online. However, I would really encourage you to take your son to a psychiatrist first ( rather than a psychologist or a learning disorder specialist). I have my suspicions based on my own experience with loved ones whose behavior is very very similar to your sons. And remember, it is possible to suffer from a mood disorder and a learning disorder simultaneously. </p>
<p>Hornet: didn’t think you were advocating dishonesty but pragmatism. I’m just not very pragmatic by nature. Musica: wish we could go with a psychiatrist, but the recommended office only has psychologists. We’re headed there now. </p>
<p>I’m sorry for what you are going through. I don’t have any expertise with Oberlin or music but having dealt with mental illess (which may or may not be your son’s issue) I do want to encourage you to think long term. </p>
<p>The first answers you get aren’t always the right answers. The first rx’s are not always the final ones. Make sure you take care of yourself as well as your son. Best. </p>
<p>I’m with musica musica about the psychiatrist. If there is a psychiatric problem, there may still be time to deal with things before the fall. Not sure where you live, but it may be important for you to be close by, relatively anyway, regardless of what he does in the fall.</p>
<p>dec51995 ~ My heart goes out to you! …By sharing your difficult story, may you gain strength from others and may you give strength to others out there. I sincerely wish you the best!</p>
<p>It is great to see such an outpouring of sympathy, empathy, and advice for this exceedingly painful time dec51995 has encountered. I’m sure she will be exploring every possible option to find help for her son. Behavior such as he has exhibited can be a result of so many different things–as many have pointed out. Not only did he stop attending classes and/or doing the work (which sometimes is basic ‘senioritis’, but here seems to be a continuing pattern) he also constructed elaborate ruses (‘doctored’ his transcript) and lied (or rather, just didn’t tell his parents) about his whereabouts for the good part of a year. It could be mental illness, depression, learning disability, ADD…so many of these can render similar behaviors. I still continue to be amazed that he was able to successfully be admitted to three different dual degree programs which require not only a great audition but good school records as well. And, was able to pull off a year of not attending classes without anyone in the schools contacting the parents or trying to help with the issue in some way…or even noticing that there was a problem!..this is very sad.</p>
<p>To the good people on this Music Major Forum ~ I’ve learned so much from you this year regarding the Music student’s journey. Now, to hear so many of you reaching out and offering your own stories and advice to dec51995 during this complicated, confusing and worrisome time is very heartwarming. I am even more happy to be a part of this forum with you.</p>
<p>I wish I had something helpful to say to @dec51995 (other than my sincere sympathy and support). This is a powerful look at the “other side” of the waitlist problem. So much of the focus on CC is on the lucky person who gets into their dream school from the waitlist, but we often forget that there may be a sad reason that the spot opened up in the first place. </p>
<p>@dec51995: ADHD and ADD are two different animals… and everything you have said about your son falls into the ADHD category. I’m sure he also interrupts a lot, monopolizes conversations, is very impulsive, and incredibly bad with money/finances. And if it makes you feel any better, I’ve done similar/worse things as your son, but still turned out relatively okay (I start grad school in the fall). </p>
<p>Being strong willed/stubborn is also a symptom of ADHD, so one of the ways my parents have always managed me is by using ultimatums ie “I’ll help you pay for school if you do xyz”. At the time I’m always very defensive and usually throw a fit, but since I need their help, I end up following their rules in the end, which benefits everyone. It’s probably so frustrating to witness your son make the “careless” mistakes you have described. But seriously, if he has ADHD his behavior makes total sense… </p>
<p>I am sorry to read all of this. Hugs to you. Little advice here, as there really is no good solution and so much depends on the actual situation that just can’t be conveyed even in such detail that Dec provided.</p>
<p>Your son is ahead of himself in what he did, no comfort to you, I know. But I’ve heard this story, many, many times, but it’s usually been at the college level. Those who have done the same in high school or earlier were totally different scenarios. Your son might have some mental, psychological , mood, ld, you name it, disorders, or he could just be a musician going to the “beat of a whole other drummer” as the cliche often goes. A friend of mine’s sister is still hurting and just so upset, cannot even breathe when she thinks about it, when she found out her son did pretty much the same thing yours did, only he did it at NYU, and basically “got” his parents for more than $100K of expenses that they really stretched to get. I beieve it was three semesters before he was caught and would have been four, but the PLUS parent loan that they took out some how set off an alarm second semester of what would have been the young man’s sophomore year. He just didn’t want to do school. Where it became a total break, I don’t know, but he stopped going to classes, but lied to his parents and bilked them out of the money as he needed it to live in NYC. A musician too, who has found some gigs and his calling without college, but not the earnings he needs to keep it up without the NYU facade. I know some other such tales too. it happens a lot. Your son just started earlier. At this point perhaps taking the GED may be the best way to end this academic charade, and look for some venues for him that are palatable to you and to him. Get that high school degree out of the way. He becomes homeschooled, end of that matter and got the GED on top of it. </p>
<p>This way you can also focus on the task at hand as to whether he is stable enough mentally or needs a lot of help in that department, and also looking at some alternatives. Yes, Oberlin is a wonderful school, but really a lot of these schools require a commitment, discipline to the rules or the kid flunks and you lose a considerable amount of money as the person above did. </p>
<p>My son was DONE with academics, so DONE, DONE, DONE, that it was a miracle he got his BFA, and only so did due to direct intervention and mentoring and personal attention by the dept head of his school. I owe this man ever so much because I know there was no way my son would have gotten his degree without this individual giving him more than what my son deserved to get. Also, he entered with so many credits with APs and college courses that he took one summer and music credit he got from being in some college groups, that he hardly had any academic requirements at all. The one course he needed to graduate that every single graduate at this uni HAD to take, he flunked 3 times. All he had to do was show up to pass the course and he could not manage it --3 times. He took it on an accelerated basis–3 weeks in summer school to get his diploma, and was even then strong armed into attending then. Nothing to do with academic abilities, mind you. He had been given an academic scholarship which he quickly lost at that school, as well as second semester sophomore standing the instant he started there due to all of the 4s and 5s he got on AP exams and those other advanced courses. His academic concentration outside of the performing arts, something required by this school for BFAs, is in mathematics. Yes, he took and did well in advanced math while flunking World Cultures 3 times. Had a 5 even in AP Bio, so science requirement fulfilled. Very sad situation, IMO. He could not wait to get out there and do his craft, and he’s always been that way in terms of not being able to focus on the present, so distracted was he to get on with the future. Something he still can’t quite grasp, but he is independently supporting himself these days. </p>
<p>Perhaps, he should have gone directly to NYC and bussed tables instead of going on to school, yet he was lacking in maturity to take that step and needed every bit of the “cover” a university had to offer. I came very close to pulling him out twice and he would have been out the one time had I been stuck on having already paid and could not get my money back. He did pull it together and get through that term. He aged me 10 years while he was in college and I would not have bet a dime he’d get his degree. I went to his commencement thinking it was all a charade and until the actual diploma came in the mail, I did not believe he had made graduation requirements. </p>
<p>So please don’t think that you have an unusually bad seed there. You have one who just thinks differently and does not have the discipline and patience to go through the steps that are required in this part of life. Whether you can goose step him through this or not, I don’t know. Other than to get the high school diploma deal out of the picture asap so you can focus on his other issues, I have no advice. Those other issues… I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t really deal with my son’s issues as I just could not.</p>
<p>I want to add, that some school districts these days, do allow online courses to get the degree. Talk to your highschool and find out the best way to get the high school diploma out of the way. Yes, there can be issues with the GED with some college not accepting it, which is why home schoolers are up in arms about some states requiring it from them. In NY, it’s required by colleges to have a high school diploma or GED which makes it difficult for homeschoolers. However, our school district here is very happy to issues a diploma through a number of arrangements for unusual circumstance, especially any time they smell trouble to have the kid in their midsts. Not a good reason, but it does make it easier here in such cases. </p>
<p>First, my heart goes out to you. I have no advise only hugs. I truly hope this works out for you. My D is going to Oberlin in the Fall and I can only imagine your heartbreak over this.</p>
<p>@clairmom You asked why the schools had not contacted the parents. Here is my take on that. I teach community college. I have dual enrollment students every semester. I have no idea unless they tell me.I find out when I turn in final grades. This is probably best, so that teachers don’t unintentionally make it easier/harder on the DE students. Now, as to why no one intervened. Again, in college I don’t go chasing down my students. They are treated as responsible adults and as such, it is their choice to attend and participate in class. I usually send an email after 2 missed classes, but after that, I assume they are planning to drop and I move on. As someone stated earlier, without the FERPA, I am not allowed to talk to anyone about a student. Some schools have better “early warning” systems using automated attendance software, but again the school would be contacting the student, not the parent. Sadly, I have had parents call me and I can’t tell them anything. It is just the way it is. I hope this helps clarify. </p>
<p>Actually, I was thinking about the high school. I, too, have been a college professor, and understand treating college students as responsible adults. It just seemed to me like there should have been some indication somewhere at the high school about failing grades for the entire year, especially since they would be the ones to send out transcripts, etc. But, I guess dual enrollment could also mean just falling through the cracks in cases such as these.</p>
<p>@dec51995. Hello. I’ve been thinking about you the past couple days. I just want to say that you and your son should not give up that dream. We need dreams (without them, what is the point of living?), and they can come true. People do amazing things that they’ve been told were impossible. Truly amazing, difficult things that even they weren’t sure they could ever do. Yes, there’s the most common path, with the more predictable travelers, but there are many people who find another, different way of getting to the same place, if they truly want to. If your son’s honest-to-goodness dream is Oberlin, or another conservatory like it, he and you should not give that dream up. Not yet. One step at a time. He’s only 17. </p>
<p>Again, thanks for the stories, theories, well-wishes and electronic hugs. We went to the intake appointment this afternoon. 2 testing sessions will follow in the next few weeks and then, finally, a feedback session where the diagnosis is laid out and we plan a course of action. Today, we completed a history and interview that we both participated in. I was pretty impressed with how thorough she was and with the rapport she established with my son, which isn’t always easy as he’s not a big talker. I was also impressed with my S’s ability to describe his thoughts and reasoning to her. The counselor (a psychologist, not a psychiatrist, as they don’t have any on staff) said that she doesn’t usually disclose an initial diagnosis, but here she felt quite convinced that my son is suffering from anxiety. She said he would recieve counseling to provide him with strategies to cope with the anxiety and, possibly, medication as well. She will be testing him for other things, but educational testing was not indicated. She did not think he was in any danger of hurting himself–I specifically asked after the appointment. I am feeling better already. We will see what else the tests reveal. The lack of executive functioning was also noted.</p>
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<p>Best news yet! </p>
<p>Onekidmama: what a nice thought about pursuing dream! I’m in a different place than I was two evenings ago. Talked with the new teacher and he thinks the conservatory is unlikely to rescind admission and that there are many layers of services available for S and people to watch over him. It seems that my S is not the first kid to have had this happen. He specifically mentioned that they can do attendance-monitoring and such. I’m still worried about the future and I know we are far from out of the woods but…ah, some relief from my darkest forebodings.</p>
<p>So, is there a way he can finish his coursework and receive a diploma in time to attend Oberlin this fall?</p>