<p>Are you in the VA pre-paid plan? (I’m guessing but that’s the one that makes sense from what you’ve said.) The in-state option is by far preferable financially, and not just for the “flagship” schools (W&M, UVA). Both my children are going in-state; the eldest now GREATLY appreciates our encouraging him as he sees 1st-hand the financial pressure his OOS classmates and less-financially-prepared in-state are under. </p>
<p>Teens have NO appreciation of the costs of a loan. I sat down with my son and reviewed his school vs his #1 OOS admit. Compared academics, housing, all the intangibles. Had him do the comparions. THEN, I helped him build a spreadsheet of what 4 years at each might cost (don’t underestimate travel, books, etc…) and what he’d be paying out monthly after graduation to repay the loans still required to go OOS. And the proportion that could be of a possible salary. And how it was comparable or exceeded a car loan (something he could relate to). And if he went in state, we might be able to help him in his goal of grad/professional school and could not if we spent it on his undergrad. By the time we were done, he convinced himself. (Yes, I was asking leading questions, old age & skullduggery over youth & enthusiasim and it was very premeditated.) But the final decision was HIS. (Like another poster said - you are not the one going.)</p>
<p>A second look at the schools one she has her admissions is very much in order. Several of D’s friends changed minds once they looked again at schools (incl. UVA & W&M) through the eyes of an admit and talked with current students and friends they respected who were going/considering it. </p>
<p>I can’t speak to W&M or UVA being pressure-cookers (children of friends attending both and have not gotten that feedback from any of them; these kids are in love with their respective schools.) The transition can be a challenge for good students who now have to compete with many more good students. </p>
<p>Weather @ visit - go revisit Williamsburg or C’ville once she has admits in-hand on a nice spring day - totally different campus! (heck, we saw W&M right after a major snow storm when they were still digging out.) Good luck.</p>
<p>Update as you posted while I was posting: JMU does not feel “big” (exception for football games in the new stadium). Try to keep it in play for now (let’s wait and see where you get in is sufficient). If she has any interest in business, their business school is well-regarded and the Integrated Science-technology program is producing some interesting graduates, considering JMU is not an engineering school. If small size is THAT important and D is willing, get Mary Washington into the mix (students we talked with there called it a private LAC on an in-state budget). I agree with Hanna re: VT, but both my kids felt overwhelmed there when they visited, so we didn’t make an issue of not applying there. </p>
<p>Your D sounds a bit like my D - very competitive, a top student, scared of being overwhelmed in college. She’s loving her 1st year, and has acepted she will do the best she can, and isn’t always going to bring home A’s. Your D knows she has your support and that less than perfect does not equate to failure, she will do fine.</p>
<p>If W&M and Emory are on the list, she must not be intending to major in any of Clemson’s best fields. It’s not ranked as highly as it is because of its offerings in liberal arts.</p>
<p>VT has ~23000 undergrads, by the way. I’m not at all convinced that anyone can feel the difference between 15k and 23k. We’re a long way from forcing a kid to go anywhere, but I would require my kid to apply to VT under these circumstances just to maximize her options. Then wait and see what the options really are.</p>
<p>Clemson has 15000 + undergrads, VT has 23000 + undergrads. Son is at VT now and even though the school is large , it is not overwhelming and is very manageable. He liked JMU too when he looked at schools. Older son went to UVa and loved it. Both UVa and VT are tough but I would not consider either to be a pressure cooker. I really don’t think your daughter needs to be concerned that she will become suicidal just by going to William and Mary. That seems a bit of a stretch. If she is worried about the harder academics at William and Mary,JMU would be a good alternative and one she may need to reconsider (along with VT and Mary Washington)with an open mind if the finances don’t work for Clemson. It sounds like she really wants warm weather and to get out of Virginia . She sounds like a typical teenager.
Crossposted with Hanna.</p>
<p>“Honestly, I’d put everything on hold until she hears from the in-state schools (and maybe tempers will cool in the meantime). After all decisions are in, I think it’s reasonable to talk with her about doing some admitted students events.” - MyLB</p>
<p>I would second MyLB. I think this is really good advice. Don’t borrow worries, at this point. If she gets into UVA and/or Wm. & Mary, then you can try to get her to go for an overnight visit with an open mind.</p>
<p>" . . .I would require my kid to apply to VT under these circumstances just to maximize her options. Then wait and see what the options really are."</p>
<p>Congrats to your d for already having two great options - JMU and Clemson. The stats you’ve posted for her are strong and it seems likely that she’ll be able to add UVA and W&M to her choices. But I wonder why she applied to W&M if her attitude is “I’m NOT going there and you can’t make me.” If it somehow comes down to Clemson and W&M being the best schools where she’s accepted w/r/t selectivity and reputation, and if she’s not more positive about W&M at that point, I think you’ll all be better off if she goes with Clemson. As other posters have said, she herself can borrow most of the difference without being excessively in debt at graduation, and if she really wants the school she can use earnings from summer and part-time jobs as well.</p>
<p>I understand the financial pressures, believe me, but pressuring a kid to attend a school he or she actively doesn’t want can be expensive, too. Adjusting to life as a freshman is challenging even with the most positive frame of mind. I’ve had two kids at W&M and well know that the “it’s so tough kids are committing suicide there” impression is a complete myth. But it would be miserable for your d to be there and have every challenge or drawback just confirm that it’s not where she wants to be.</p>
<p>I agree that there’s still plenty of time for you to work this out. She may feel differently about all the schools on her list when April rolls around. Good luck to her!</p>
<p>I’ve always wondered about those pre-paid tuition plans. Is it wise to pay into a plan when a child might not want, or be able, to go to that college or colleges? Friends of mine paid into a plan at a certain state university for both their children. Their whole family had gone to that university and their young children said they wanted to go there. Fast-forward ten years later: One child was, very happily, at a small private college, and the other one was, also happily, at a different state university.</p>
<p>From what I understand, the OP can get back what they paid into the plan (plus some interest). I know very little about these plans, but I would assume the downside is that you don’t get the original benefit you bought the plan for.</p>
<p>We paid into a Coverdell account, that let us apply that money wherever the kid ended up going to school. As it turned out, we rolled the funds over from S to D & it has helped us get through her tuition at an expensive OOS private. Our state doesn’t even have pre-paid tuition plans anyway, but instate tuition is still VERY affordable. Neither kid had any interest in applying or attending instate flagship. :(</p>
<p>I believe some of the plans may also provide you with some nominal interest for your money while it ws in the plan, but they vary considerably. It could also be transferred to some other person, I believe with restrictions.</p>
<p>@HWG2- Yes we have VA prepaid. For those of you that aren’t familiar with how this plan works, I gave VA 22k 10 years ago and D’s tuition is covered at any in state school even though increases have averaged ~8% per year. If D goes out of state we get back the 22k with something like 1% interest for the last 10 years. Also, she is not planning on business.</p>
<p>@Hanna and HWG- She will probably major in pre-med or psych. I also agree with your (and SEV’s) opinion of a big school versus small but am having a hard time convincing her. I went to a HUGE school and it didn’t feel big at all because we had our own small cluster of dorms with our own dining hall and pretty much just hung out with that smaller group. </p>
<p>MyLB and glido- “Don’t borrow worry” is very valid, but this all started when she got her JMU acceptance letter and we discussed IS vs OOS costs (and cost benefit analysis). In other words: I would consider paying more for a school/program that I though was worth it, but would hesitate paying for the same difference if it wasn’t (eg- 20k more for U Penn in business vs a VA school or paying 20k more for teaching degree at Podunk U vs a VA school). </p>
<p>@Frazzled- She applied to W&M because I made her. I wanted her to at least have the option. When she visited there she didn’t like it because “it wasn’t really a separate campus. There are businesses or Colonial re-enactment things all around it. I want a campus that is like separate”. I tried to tell her than all campuses pretty much have businesses around them but she said it’s more a case of them not being visibly distinct from the surrounding environment.</p>
<p>It really doesn’t matter if you (or we ) think UVA is a better school than Clemson or not. (Not to you: you can’t make her like/want to go to W&M.) </p>
<p>The issue is: which school better fits your daughter/in which school is she more likely to thrive.</p>
<p>That takes conversations that drill down into the specifics of the schools. For example, one my kids really really wanted to go to Vasser (which was a lot more money) but that opinion didnt; connect with the desire to major in math (other schools had much larger/stronger math programs).</p>
<p>We kept our conversation open until decision time rolled around and things just worked out.</p>
<p>You seem like you are beating around the bush about the cost, and that you can afford Clemson but you prefer not to. Whatever your opinion about the cost issue is, best to get that out on the table. It could be something like 1) we will only spend X and since Clemson will cost more if you want to go there you need to find the money 2) we could spend the extra money for Clemson but it’s $25k more and we’d have to be convinced that Clemson is that much better based on facts about the school.</p>
<p>Marisian- The benefit with our plan is that our child (or a sibling or even grandchild) can go to any in state school at a locked in price. So essentially I have been earning 8% on my money for the last 10 years as long as she goes in state. You would be hard pressed to find any other investment has increased 8% per annum over the last 10 years. </p>
<p>The drawback of course is if the child doesn’t go to school, or goes out of state, you basically just get your money back. Luckily you can use it for another child, or a grandchild, which is why I bought 2 for my 3 kids (I figured maybe one would get a scholarship or perhaps even not go).</p>
<p>This is true of W&M to an extent greater than that of any other campus I have ever seen. And I say that even though when I visited W&M with one of my kids, I fell in love with the place, and I regretted that I hadn’t applied there thirtysomething years earlier.</p>
<p>Maybe with William and Mary, it is more the Colonial ,tourist stuff, that she is not crazy about? Because lots of schools have businesses adjacent to the campus-UVa has the Corner for instance, even VT has shops and restaurants right off campus. She clearly just doesn’t like William and Mary at this point. That may change in April but maybe not. Hopefully, she can have another instate option that will work if she keeps an open mind. If not, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to be asking her to make up the difference for an out of state with loans and work.Especially when you have 2 other kids coming behind her. I’m sure it must be frustrating for you that she cannot find an instate option when you have done the pre-paid tuition! Virginia has such great options but unfortunately, your daughter really wants Clemson. If her position doesn’t change, she may have to contribute more financially. Sometimes if a kid knows some of the cost will have to be on their own dime, a less expensive option miraculously becomes more appealing.Good luck!</p>
<p>My D chose to attend one of the most expensive schools for her major. She has a work- study job on campus and two off campus jobs and still has a GPA at the top of her class. It can be done.
OP, you could give her the 22K which you’d get back from the program to use toward attending Clemson and she’s capable of earning the difference herself too. My concern would be spending that money on a kid who really has no idea what she wants to do later on life. Have you considered having her take classes for a year at a local CC? She could knock of done gen ed requirements that way and go away to school that much further ahead the following year. Many schools will defer admission for a year</p>
<p>OP,
It’s your money. She is very fortunate that you are offering to pay. It is your prerogative to change your mind about which schools you are willing to pay for. I’d wait and see what happens with the rest of the applications, and if you don’t want to pay for Clemson, I don’t see anything wrong with telling her that. She will have other good schools to choose from and will survive.</p>
<p>The danger as I see it is appearing to have changing terms. If the terms for years were stated as cost comparisons, then if a parent is willing to give more for one than another, it might not be perceived as fair.</p>
<p>Do you have an idea of how much effort she put into her UVa and William and Mary apps? Since you said you made her apply to William and Mary, do you think she did a good job with her essays,etc. or did she just go through the motions? Kids get turned down all the time by UVa and Wm & Mary , if the complete package is not there . They just don’t look at grades and SAT’s. It is interesting that you say she had possible interest in JMU if she could have gotten a scholarship, but she missed (possibly conveniently) the scholarship deadline. Boy, she must really want to go to Clemson. Does she know anybody else there already or that is going to go there? It’s a good school but in my kid’s instate public high school, it would have been more of a backup for kids that didn’t get into UVa ,Wm & Mary ,or VT(unless they might have gotten substantial merit aid from Clemson that made it less expensive than instate choices).</p>
<p>Not only a question of perceived fairness…but an action that could reasonably be perceived as a bait & switch. Something which could seriously impact a child’s perception of a parent’s reliability and integrity and cause potential trust issues down the road.</p>