I think we are on the same page. I agree that conviction sounds unlikely (given the 3% of the whole story we know, but it feels that way). And that is sadly the case even when an assault did take place. Because usually only 2 people know what really happened. One is lying, but if we are being honest it is almost never beyond a reasonable doubt which one.
But a formal accusation, even if unfounded, carries severe reprecussions irregardless of any innocence or guilt. Innocence or guilt is really a secondary issue frankly.
The girls are the ones behaving badly. But my worry would be trying to call them out on it could lead to them playing their big trump card. And she could say it was something that happened a week or month before the public fight. Prove it didn’t. Yes, it has baggage for her, but he will feel the brunt of the fallout. And from the U’s POV, they won’t care a lick about innocence or guilt. They will want him gone. There is no upside to him staying, and tremendous reputational downside. That is what happened locally. I think the majority of the people involved believed the guy, but his coach and later the U were not willing to get drug through the mud being seen as coddling a rapist. No one did more than pay lip service to finding out what actually happened as they told him to pack his bags.
I just fear this may be a case of the downside of calling them out outweighing the upside. And that is assuming that mom is telling us everything, and he told her everything. The world will punish him for being accused. I’m sorry. This isn’t fair. But I think it is the reality.
My point was that TYPICALLY in a sexual assault case there aren’t witnesses.
I don’t really know what is going on here, none of us do. And it is a huge problem that assault is underreported because the woman can get drug through the mud and have all kinds of ramifications still.
My point was just that the boy should tread carefully. If there is any chance that she could make that allegation, the downside to confrontation is more than the upside. That’s true whether an assault took place or not.
The tone I took is probably sounding one sided because that’s the recent one that my son’s friends were involved in (he was casual friends with both of them, and close with many of their close friends on both sides). That was not my intention.
This is another thread I probably shouldn’t have gotten involved in. I still haven’t read more than the first few posts, but I had some relevant info about the fraternity situation and then gave an opinion with a fraction of the info that is here, which is a fraction of what mom knows, which is far from everything I’m guessing.
I do think that my advice that it is in son’s best interest to just walk away is good advice. Because as bad as he thinks it is now there is tremendous downside to confrontation, ranging from further reputation damage to serious jail time.
The school is not neutral. As soon as he approaches any school representative they’re going to take a statement from him. It won’t feel like one. More than likely it will be a friendly conversation. He’ll be prompted for details and asked if he was drinking. She’ll be brought in separately. If she even implies that he physically assaulted her or raped her they will help her file Title IX charges against him. Then everything he told the friendly Dean he chatted with will be used against him.
Schools do not care about guilt or innocence. They care about how many Title IX cases they’ve had, and if they’ve been investigated by the feds for making too many wrong decisions (in other words, finding more boys innocent than the feds approve of) then they care a whole lot about the outcome of this case. If they get it wrong they lose their federal funding. They care about that a great deal.
What he needs to do is follow @MYOS1634’s excellent advice.
Unfortunately, this is TRUE. The school administration is not your son’s friend, not his ally. If he does ANYTHING, he must do it by getting a restraining order through the court system, and then presenting it to the school as a done deal, to prevent her from approaching him.
But I’m really hopeful that if he gives up on the idea of joining a frat, and finds his social life through other venues at school, hopefully which don’t involve drinking, everything will be fine and he can settle down to the business of getting an education.
Look up Hanna’s posts from the past. Our resident lawyer. Where’d she go anyhow?
The main thing is that the university approaches this as “guilty until proven innocent” but doesn’t leave the accused much room to defend themselves. And when confronted with a false accuser bent on revenge then you also know they’re willing to keep on lying with no harm to themselves. It’s a twisted system which doesn’t help/protect anyone so the best advice is remove yourself totally from the situation. It’s not a court of law–it’s a university system that can ruin your life. No matter how innocent it can cost reputation and years of life at a time when it counts most.
Really hoping like OP that the drama just dies as time passes which is why it’s especially important to cut contact completely. I’d talk to an attorney before requesting a restraining order which would probably just alert the girl as to his whereabouts.
The video featuring Hanna shared that for those (usually white males from financially stable families) who have an assault on their college record apply to about 30 different colleges & universities hoping for an acceptance as a transfer. According to Hanna, getting 3 to 5 acceptances from 30 apps is a great outcome.
I did not get the impression that Hanna is working as an attorney for students, but rather as an educational consultant & guidance counselor who works to present her clients’ details of the incident / accusation / disciplinary record in a favorable light.
I’m confused about several posters’ advice to get a restraining order on her. I would think that would stir the pot, and could cause her to escalate. She doesn’t need to be near him to bring a false accusation to the university. One poster, I believe, suggested that by virtue of having a restraining order, OP’s son would turn the tables and perhaps undermine the girl’s credibility with the school. I don’t know if that has merit or not. I really recommend talking to an expert in this field now, since the girl was still actively going after your son as recently as last week, and you want to be prepared in the event this goes down the wrong road. I would try to find @hannah and I would also call a couple of criminal attorneys in the college town to ask if they have any experience with title IX hearings and if they don’t, if they have someone they could recommend. Hopefully you will only have to pay for a consultation and won’t ever need their services.
I did not mean to refer “females” in a mysogynistic term, I’m from germany so I tend to use gender terms and other words on how they are translated in german, will note that for future references, so my apologies on that. I obviously do not know the story but if it is so how she is implementing it I will give opinion and “what I have seen before” type of knowledge. I’m not on this thread to put down young women, I’m just out here to help.
actually there is “Weib” and it is very commonly used in germany without a mysogynistic meaning behind it. I’m sorry again for using “females”, I already acknowledged my mistake and will prevent it from happening again.
“Weiber” is as derogatory as it gets, and, if anything, worse than using “females” in English.
A good reminder that not only is a drinking club maybe not the best place for OPs son to be, but maybe not the best community to find and support the harmonious and equitable relationship with a young woman that is hopefully in the young man’s future.
My older daughter was stalked by a boy who thought they had a relationship when she was in college. It went on for over 2 years, while in school and after. It got scary at some point.
In the OP’s case it is bullying, but the end result is still intimidation and limiting the son’s ability to enjoy his life.
Social media works both ways. Your son can view those girls social media to know where they are going to be and he can try to avoid those places. Your son should also download any social media that’s threatening to him as evidence.
I would suggest for your son to keep track of calls/texts from those girls as evidence someday. He should not respond to those girls because they are looking for reactions. He definitely shouldn’t have a 1:1 with the ex because she could then accuse him of worse things (he said, she said).
Your son can also video incidences of harassment. Of course, if those girls are smart they would know he could use those videos as evidence or be shared on social media. I don’t think any sorority would want to see their sisters behaving badly.
In my daughter’s case, we didn’t file for a restraining order because we would need to list all places this person had to stay away from, which would kind of defeat the purpose.
I did have to step in at some point by contacting the boy’s parents to ask for help. I was lucky that the father was reasonable (not the mother, they were divorced). He said his son was bipolar and was on and off meds. He promised to get his son the help he needed.
We got a lot of advice from police, lawyer, school…the consistent one was not to engage and move if necessary. They said what we could best hope for was for the boy to turn his attention some where else.
For many years, I stalked this boy’s social media to know where he was and to warn D1 if/when he was going to be around where she was.
Wise advice. I don’t think the OP is in any danger, but being stalked by an obsessive, mentally ill person is terrifying, and for good reason. A beautiful, accomplished Wesleyan student was murdered by a mentally ill young man who stalked her for years. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity, even though he meticulously stalked her, wore a disguise while murdering her, and made great efforts to cover his tracks. He’s in a mental hospital, currently suing the state over his right to play violent video games while incarcerated in the state’s hospital for the criminally insane.