<p>Yes, you’re right that NU is different than other schools. I’d meant to explain that in post #18, but did an incomplete job. I’ll add a note here for future reference.</p>
<ul>
<li> To further explain for those who are unfamiliar with Northwestern’s program, NU admits 100 Theatre students and ~20 Vocal Performance freshman each year, out of ~1,000 applicants. At the end of freshman year – or perhaps earlier next year – all of these students, plus sophomore Theatre and VP students may audition for the MT Certificate program. Of the ~200 NU students who auditioned this year, 15 freshmen (6 men and 9 women) and 13 sophomores were admitted to the MT program. </li>
</ul>
<p>Ball State MT (BFA): 17 (8 men and 9 women)
Carnegie Mellon MT (BFA): 12 (7 men and 5 women)
CCM MT (BFA): 18 (9 men and 9 women)
Coastal Carolina MT (BFA): 10 (3 men and 7 women)
Elon MT (BFA): 18 (9 men and 9 women)
Florida State MT: (BFA) 6; (BM) 3 (4 men and 5 women total)
James Madison MT (BA): 14 (6 men and 8 women)
Michigan MT (BFA): 24 (14 men and 10 women)
Northwestern U (BA + MT Cert): 15 frosh (6 men and 9 women) {*see post #21}
Oklahoma City MT: 27 (14 men and 13 women)
Otterbein MT (BFA): 8 (4 men and 4 women)
Otterbein Acting (BFA): 6 (2 men and 4 women)
Shenandoah MT (BFA): 18 (7 men and 11 women)
Texas State Acting (BFA): 12 (6 men and 6 women)
Texas State MT: 12 (6 men and 6 women)
The Royal Conservatoire of Scotland MT (BA): 18 (3 American Students)</p>
<p>I’ve pointed this out on the drama thread a while back, but i do think a lot of these numbers are exaggerations, and they can discourage future students. We are all guilty of this.
For example… If there are 100 theatre students in each grade at Northwestern, and if 200 students actually audition for MT, then that would mean every student in the freshman and sophomore class are trying for MT. Aren’t there some students that are straight acting students and have no interest in MT?</p>
<p>@Mommy5. Good to clarify since numbers can certainly scare people… but I don’t think that momcares is suggesting that everyone that is eligible to apply to the MT certificate program actually does so. But even if they do (and this is why I’m replying since I have no horse in this race at all)… I’d feel better about the reported odds for MT at NU once a student was already into the school in the first place than the odds of getting into many of the other highly ranked MT programs on day one. The MT certificate program has tough odds for sure, but the toughest odds are getting into NU, period (no matter what your major). Meanwhile, I think having the data on the MT certificate acceptances is actually what most of us in the hunt would want to know so although the stats are not exactly an apples for apples, I think it is good to include them in the thread given what I think is the intent.</p>
<p>My long winded way of saying: I think the NU stats as presented actually mean - If you ARE somebody that could be eligible to attend Northwestern, here are the stats on MT acceptances that you may find relevant.</p>
<p>Vocal Performance students (freshmen and sophomore) also audition, which adds ~40 kids to the pool, plus the Theatre class of 2015 was closer to 125 students as they had much higher-than-expected yield. </p>
<p>So ~60 of the ~225 Theatre students who could audition for the MT Certificate program didn’t this year. These numbers are the ballparks I’ve been told, but they no doubt vary year-to-year. The part that is certain is the number of kids who were admitted to the MT Certificate program this year.</p>
<p>The numbers reported by MomCares are almost verbatim what was reported to my S and me by the students and faculty when he auditioned at NU in VP in February ( I suppose that they could be exaggerating too). I do know that they had approx. 32,000 applicants ( a record for the school) for 2000 spots in the NU class of 2012 for all majors. If memory serves, MomCares reported on a previous thread that none of the VP majors were accepted into the MT certificate program this year. This fact and a second round of auditions for the certificate program were two reasons why S did not accept his NU offer. I agree that there are plenty of examples of numbers being unreasonably skewed. The NU numbers though, as reported by MomCares are not among them. Its tough out there.</p>
<p>Although the title of this thread refers to freshman, I suspect the point of the OP is to get a sense of the number and breakdown of the entry year’s group. In most cases, that would be freshman year, but for NU the number could be thought of as whatever number enter the MT program on any given year regardless of being freshman or sophomores. From the data, momcares shared, this year that number was 28. If we look at it like that, then other schools like UC Irvine that admit into their MT programs only after a student is already attending and taken a certain number of classes could also be included.</p>
<p>I guess I’m more of a fan of schools that audition their class before they get into the school. It must really suck for someone to get into a school and then not get into their major. I know it happens for other majors. It’s just that my son auditioned for his program and his first semester went right into focusing on his major. My daughter has 2 gen eds this fall and the rest are studio days. So many BFA programs are a full 4 years. I think that once you get into the program, you can focus on what you’re there for.</p>
<p>I agree that at some schools that would really suck, but based on D’s experience I don’t think it would be very bad at all at NU if you were interested in MT but didn’t get into the MT Certificate program. Even before D auditioned for the MT Certificate she had private voice lessons every quarter (and from a real professor versus a grad student which MTs at many schools, including UMich, don’t get until sophomore year), dance classes every quarter, an MT Workshop, and MT group voice class on top of general theatre classes and distribution classes. Plus she’s in an award winning a cappella group that rehearses 3 times a week and was cast in 4 musicals (over 60 shows are produced on campus every year).</p>
<p>So even if one didn’t get into the MT Certificate program (and I honestly think that most of the kids who are serious about MT do), you could leave with an MT education that rivaled most in the country, not to mention a degree from one of the top universities in the world. Not very bad.</p>
<p>supportive - I don’t totally disagree with you, but Northwestern is a BA program with a MT certificate (not even a minor), not a BFA for either degree, this, plus NU being on a trimester system, allows for greater flexibility in class choices. I also think MomCares is a little skewed in her views in that her daughter must be very talented prior to attending so her strengths came through immediately hence her receiving so many MT opportunities as a Freshman and I must respectfully disagree that “most of the kids who are serious about MT do” get admitted into the MT program.</p>
<p>The advantages to auditioning once you’re in the school is that the competition is a bit less and the faculty knows you for almost a whole year so it’s more than a 10 minute audition. This works well for those who are still striving to find their voice and ability, as effort, desire, and work ethic come into play. I know of one boy in particular who had the same opportunities as MomCares daughter Freshman year and was rejected from the MT program. The administration saw something that he hadn’t yet come to terms with - he really didn’t want MT; as a matter of fact, he didn’t want acting at all. The year that they had spent with him showed them that and he is incredibly happy now in a totally different major.</p>
<p>The disadvantage is that it creates a stressful second half of Freshman year for those that want the MT program and are concerned about the results of the audition. I’m not going to lie - there is a hierarchy and cliquish aspect to the MT kids and many feel superior to those who audition but don’t get admitted. Even those who get admitted for their potential versus their current ability are somewhat looked down upon by the other kids. </p>
<p>In the end, it’s a great program and works well for those who do better with a 9 month audition as opposed to a 10 minute audition. But this is somewhat off-topic of this thread, so I do apologize for participating in this tangent!</p>
<p>I get what you’re saying and agree with a lot of it. It would be much easier to audition with only the students at your school, instead of the whole United States (and even other countries). I’m sure there are many talented kids at NU. However, kids aren’t accepted to the school based on talent. They are accepted based on academics (I say this because there is no audition). The SAT/ACT scores needed are very high and just because you can meet those requirements, it does not mean you have the talent to go along with it. I know of a valedictorian and a salutatorian form my kids’ school (which is 127 in the nation) that were rejected from NU. Both outstanding kids but they also applied RD and they were both Caucasian kids who needed financial aid.</p>
<p>@supportive - I shared your concerns about the lack of auditions when D chose to apply binding ED. I don’t want to pull this thread off topic so I’ve addressed your comments on the Northwestern board.</p>
<p>Ball State MT (BFA): 17 (8 men and 9 women)
Carnegie Mellon MT (BFA): 12 (7 men and 5 women)
CCM MT (BFA): 18 (9 men and 9 women)
Coastal Carolina MT (BFA): 10 (3 men and 7 women)
Elon MT (BFA): 18 (9 men and 9 women)
Florida State MT: (BFA) 6; (BM) 3 (4 men and 5 women total)
James Madison MT (BA): 14 (6 men and 8 women)
Michigan MT (BFA): 24 (14 men and 10 women)
Northwestern U (BA + MT Cert): 15 frosh (6 men and 9 women) {*see post #21}
Oklahoma City MT: 27 (14 men and 13 women)
Otterbein MT (BFA): 8 (4 men and 4 women)
Otterbein Acting (BFA): 6 (2 men and 4 women)
Shenandoah MT (BFA): 18 (7 men and 11 women)
Texas State Acting (BFA): 12 (6 men and 6 women)
Texas State MT: 12 (6 men and 6 women)
The Royal Conservatoire of Scotland MT (BA): 18 (3 American Students)</p>
<p>supportive - to be admitted into the School of Communications (probably the other schools at NU as well) you must show through your essays, EC, etc. your participation in your area of interest so it is MUCH more than just a numbers game (SAT, ACT, GPA). The talent is very high at NU so they must know what they’re doing when it comes to acceptances at NU SoC.</p>
<p>Still, the point I’m trying to make is that you are competing with only kids from your school. I already said NU has some talented kids but they also aren’t competing talent wise for spots in their MT program with kids from across the nation. They are only competing against kids who got into NU mostly based on academics and other factors as they did not audition. On a resume, just because you were the lead in tons of shows at your high school, doesn’t mean that you are better than someone who was only in 3 or 4 shows. It’s like being the best runner at your school and then you go to a meet with kids from other schools and they beat you in the race. Of course it’s all subjective and no one said NU isn’t a great school because I know it is. I also know that many really talented theatre kids do not get into the school. It also amazes me that a school like CMU only looks at talent and not grades for their BFA and they turn out really good people. A boy from my daughter’s school got into CMU and his academics would never have gotten him into NU. He was a Young Arts finalist this year but so was a dancer from our school that was in his 2nd year as a senior. There are many programs that only look at talent. The other thing is that I’m glad my son got into his college during his senior year of high school and can concentrate on his BFA. I can’t imagine having to go through the audition process again and having to write more essays to gain entrance into a program. The stress would be horrible. So, to clarify, NU IS a great school and I won’t argue with that or the talent.</p>
<p>The artistic accomplishments that impress a school like NU are at the national level of achievement and have nothing to do with high school roles.</p>
<p>How many national opportunities are truly available for high school students in MT? I know there is Young Arts, and the Jimmy award is only available to high school leads in shows. There are some regional things but that’s only if your school participates.</p>
<p>YoungArts, Jimmy’s, International Thespian Festival, MPulse, Interlochen, Broadway or National tour credits… there are quite a few ways that talented MT high school kids can gain national attention.</p>
<p>Look there is no doubt that Northwestern is a great program, but Momcares you are not totally correct in WHO gets into Northwestern Theatre program. I know several kids that got into and attend NU. They had no theatre credits at all outside of high school. But they were brilliant students with fabulous grades, SAT scores and community/school involvement. They were no more talented than anyone else doing the plays. And in 2 cases they picked NU because they were rejected from every BFA program they auditioned at. Obviously there are plenty super talented kids there, and I would bet that your daughter is one of them. But I’m positive that there are also plenty of mediocre kids in the program. How could there not be if there is no audition? It would be like a top art school selecting their students without seeing any art work or a portfolio.</p>
<p>Great points Mommy5. Young Arts only cost $35 (which is affordable at least) and the Jimmy’s are limited to lead roles. My kids’ school did not participate in International Thespian Society’s national convention in Nebraska. They only got to go to their state festival. I found that the college summer programs (Cherubs is very expensive) and other national camps such as Stage Door (which doesn’t give scholarships) are incredibly expensive (and that wasn’t including air fare). So basically, one has to be pretty well-off. My daughter taught summer theatre camp locally and my son spent his summers planning the state thespian festivals as he was 2nd in command. We don’t live anywhere near Broadway and personally, I did not want my kids to be in show business as a child. Both of my kids are hard workers and are quite talented but their focus was on school-where they thrived academically and artistically. Where we live, there aren’t many opportunities for children’s theatre. One of my daughter’s friends left school in 9th grade and moved to LA. She just turned 18 and is now on Young and the Restless. Her parents are very well-off and could afford to do that. It’s all a crap shoot!</p>
<p>Sometimes MomCares cares too much and has a tendency to state as fact that which is only her daughter’s small perspective. Most of the kids my daughter knows in both straight theatre and MT did not have national experience, some did, but not most.</p>
<p>Nothing in this business is an exact science, that’s why the current rising Sophomore class (MomCares daughter’s class) is at 125 as opposed to the 100 they prefer. Of course a few will switch majors which will lower the number a bit by the time they are Juniors but still…</p>
<p>BTW, my daughter (a soon to be NU M/T Senior!), was admitted to Yale but waitlisted at NU and she had professional film and television experience on her resume. No way to know the reasons for anything.</p>
<p>Even though this is taking us even more off topic, I just want to comment that I think it’s interesting that Cherubs (at NU) is run the same way – non-audition for what is considered a very prestigious summer program. I know talented kids who didn’t want to go to Cherubs because of the non-audition aspect (not wanting to be with possibly less-talented kids). But I know that all of the kids that we have personally known who have attended ARE very talented, so NU must have some way of gauging talent without actually seeing an audition.</p>
