geography and college admissions

<p>My daughter went to a very competitive high school in New Jersey and then we moved to the midwest. It was like being set loose in a candy store in terms of college admissions. Suddenly she was doing a third of the work, in all APs and honors, in every club, etc. and instead of the gloom and doom attitude that every school is a reach, people were actually getting into schools that they deserved to get into.</p>

<p>Now we are in a strange position. We're living overseas and contemplating returning to the states in a year or 2 with our son who's in middle school. I know college admission isn't everything but after experiencing getting our daughter into a really good college while much better students from her high school in New Jersey were rejected from worse schools I'm wondering if it's worth subjecting our very bright, athletic son to a grueling time at a very competitive high school only to have him tank in the college admissions process. </p>

<p>Does anyone have any ideas of a place to move where there are good schools but college admissions are still favorable? Is it bad to be anywhere in New York or New Jersey or just the competitive schools?</p>

<p>Amazon, I realy don't know. But if I were miving back to the US, I'd consider quality of life for the whole family first. Did you like the midwest for reasons other than a college admissions boost? It sure sounds as if your D enjoyed it. Are your job prospects so flexible that you can move anywhere? Do you need a change of seasons to feel at home? etc., etc. etc. I love NJ, but truthfully, if I didn't have the burden of a house to clear out & sell, and if my H didn't love his job, I might be looking at alternatives myself.</p>

<p>I sent you a PM</p>

<p>Well, the midwest is a big place with a lot of different kinds of places to live.</p>

<p>In general, it is less expensive to live here, so paying for college may be less stressful. As for getting into the college of your choice, you may find the lack of competitiveness to be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it might be easier to stand out from the crowd, but on the other hand the guidance counselors are a lot less likely to know anything at all about elite school admissions, and in some cases are downright hostile to the idea, since their own "brilliant" kids attended State U and why isn't that good enough for you?</p>

<p>Having lived in a variety of places, and being a native (and once again) midwesterner, I would recommend the small cities that contain large universities. The schools are more likely to include AP courses and advanced students can take supplementary classes at the university. Cultural attractions are more likely to mimic, on a small scale, some of the attractions of the northeast. </p>

<p>Even in the college town we live in, the elementary and middle schools were a major disappointment to us. The high schools have responded to pressure from professor/doctor/lawyer parents and heavily beefed up class choices for the college-bound, but the schools still will disappoint those accustomed to uniformly high-performing schools.</p>

<p>This year's graduating classes (two public high schools) saw acceptances to some Ivy Leagues, a few other top-20s with major merit scholarships, a few top LAC, JHU, CalTech, Carnegie Mellon, etc. (A complete wash out at MIT though. Almost kind of remarkable). But the majority of the students, including very good ones, attend flagship U or one of the smaller publics.</p>

<p>I know college admissions aren't everything but I'm just talking hypothetically. In 3 or 4 years, my husband might be a year or so away from retiring and we could move somewhere where we might want to retire. We don't own a house now and we've lived in a lot of places although our preference would be the New York area.</p>

<p>One of the disadvantages of NY and NJ, in my opinion, is that many students do not find the flagship state universities of these two states (the SUNY schools and Rutgers, respectively) to be very attractive.</p>

<p>This may be why there is a nearly overwhelming proportion of NY and NJ kids among the out-of-staters at other Eastern state universities. </p>

<p>I live in Maryland, in the DC suburbs. The kids here consider themselves to be at an admissions disadvantage at most of highly selective schools, particularly East Cost schools, because there is an overwhelming number of qualified applicants from our area. On the other hand, unlike NY and NJ residents, kids here have a great fallback -- a state university (the University of Maryland at College Park) -- that people actually LIKE. </p>

<p>I think that kids in many other states can say the same. If you really have the whole U.S. to pick from, why not choose a state with an absolutely top-notch flagship state university (such as the University of Virginia or the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill or the University of Michigan) or at least a reasonably good flagship state university that people actually want to attend (such as Penn State or the University of Maryland). That way, if your son is a top student, he has a good choice readily available to him at a good price. All else is gravy.</p>

<p>Kids in any area where competitive universities/colleges are located face the problem of competing against applicants outside the area. Because schools strive to admit diverse classes, it's makes it all the harder. Wherever you decide to live, it's important that your S looks at schools outside the region in addition to those inside the area.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision!</p>

<p>I think the private universities and LACs want geographical diversity and there are more kids from New York and New Jersey and perhaps a few other states like California and Illinois who are either willing or able to pay for a private school. This is probably at least partly because real estate has gone up so much on the coasts. If you're a middle-class kid, it's hard to get a lot of money at a top school. Lot's of brilliant kids we knew ended up going to State schools or schools where they got money which weren't the best schools that they got into.</p>

<p>I think the tristate area (NY, NJ, Conn.) definitely puts the kids at a disadvantage due to the sheer numbers of students applying from those areas. We live in South Florida, while the schools here are just OK, we have many choices for public universities that are incredibly inexpensive in comparison to other publics across the nation. Plus, any child who graduates a Florida high school with a 3.5 weighted core GPA, 1270 SAT and 75 community service hours gets FREE tuition (Bright Futures scholarship) at any Florida public university for all four years (providing they keep a 3.0 in college)! You can't beat that.</p>

<p>I think you should find a state, any state, with a coveted flagship. To me that would be California, Washington, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, MAYBE Georgia...move there. Worst case your high achieving kid goes to the state school and everything is fine.</p>

<p>What is interesting to me is how many midwestern states show up on the "flagship is pretty good" list and that may be why midwestern students have an advantage in private school admissions..the admissions machine knows they have to work pretty hard to make the case that anybody should pay up to send their kid there.</p>

<p>I think Mombot has a good point about the state flagship being more of a draw in some states than others.</p>

<p>The problem with NY and NJ is that there is a long history of acceptances at those schools. Over the deacdes, the scattergrams have narrowed to the top percentages only.</p>

<p>For your line of thinking, the trick would be to find a school with a reasonable scattergram--or better yet--no scattergram history for the top schools. That is a tough ask in Jersey, but probably doable in working class schools like the one garland's children attended.</p>

<p>There are, in fact, a couple of impossible scattergram schools in the midwest, by the way. They show up on PapaChicken's list of top 100 matriculating high schools.</p>

<p>If you want to avoid competition--and elite schools--you want to avoid all 100 schools on PapaChicken's list.</p>

<p>amazon, Are your locations options really open ended and totally driven by your son's chance at admissions? If that is really the case then I'd say stay overseas, especially in some weird and wonderful place. :)</p>

<p>I'd guess, an exotic foreign locale is worth 100 points on the SAT. This purely anecdotal of course, but, seriously, international, global experience, exposure to third world cultures and religions are a huge boost in admissions.</p>

<p>cheers, I can no longer find this matriculation list. (Did several searches.) I was aware it was posted for awhile. I think I never read it, & I'd be curious.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=97742%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=97742&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Papa chicken, aka king of compilation</p>

<p>It would be interesting to compare those scattergrams - they were available to us when we were living in New Jersey and the midwest. My daughter's friend looked up the college that she's attending at the website of the high school in New Jersey and the average GPA of kids accepted is 4.5. My daughter's weighted GPA was about 4.0.</p>