<p>My husband and I have been together for 30 years. In the beginning (surprise) we were really young and dependent on each other. Some people may have seen it as unhealthy. It's just where we were then. We're not clingy now, in our 50's, but maybe will be again if we're lucky enough to see our 80's together.</p>
<p>groovinhard</p>
<p>nice post. It is all about relationships for me too.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Groove, when a relationship substantially sabotages the potential of someone, that's destructive, not the prequel of a happily ever after tale.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's why I said I agreed that he shouldn't change who he is, or compromise his chances at going to a good school for the right price. Everyone is very quick to say he's sabatoging his potential...perhaps he is just prioritizing.</p>
<p>I am not really disagreeing with anyone here. I just felt like the opinions were a little one-sided, considering none of us are actually witnessing the relationship first hand besides the OP.</p>
<p>While I didn't have any relationships in high school that would have distracted me from my school work, I certainly pined away many hours WISHING I had one... ;)</p>
<p>If the op, the Mom is worried, and said she was a number of times, gee, maybe there is an problem</p>
<p>I do think there are some things parents can do...we can set limits, boundaries on time, etc if things are suffering</p>
<p>If the school sees it, mom sees it, maybe it is time to have a heart to heart, laying out all the "consequences" of not doing all you can in HS so your options are more varied for college</p>
<p>how many posters have we seen on this site saying NOW when they are applying or applied to colleges do they wish they had slacked of as juniors, etc.</p>
<p>I know parents, me included, who say, okay, you have been out enough this week, Sunday is "focus" day to get stuff done, SAT prep, etc...and these are 17 year olds...sure, they budget their own time, usually, but if they get side tracked, its a parents job to help them refocus</p>
<p>And as most of my Ds friends have this same policy, it works fine...</p>
<p>Are we as parents so afraid of our kid saying something snooty back that we don't take care of business of raising them? </p>
<p>If the young man is unfocused at school, is not developing enough that the staff doesn't even know him, the NEW kid, who is losing his passions, sometimes mom and dad need to do their job and I think the OP can perhaps see that a bit, and is wondering how to do that</p>
<p>Me, I would take some weekend trips, even day ones to look at schools, look at budgets, look at costs, etc...a reality check is in order</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is intriguing. Why?</p>
<p>Anuddah, We are also an international family and understand the difficulty of adjusting to new school, new country, new culture, new friends. From what you've told us, there is a good deal of good news here: Your son's fallen in with an "intellectual" crowd with positive interest in the arts, the girlfriend is smart and college bound, your son's grades are still good. Could be worse.</p>
<p>So, what to do next to turn this into a win-win situation for your son and keep your sanity as well? A few questions:</p>
<p>First, I assume your son is looking at American colleges. Is the GF looking at US schools as well? Although there may be a difference in the size of schools that she's interested in and you have in mind for your son, are they at least in the same tier of academic rigor? If yes, you might enlist the GF's and her parents' help. Have your own private college night. Talk together about what they both need to do to realize their dreams.</p>
<p>Financial need is an important factor -- maybe THE most important factor -- in building the college list and you are right in worrying; however, there is no reason to assume that your son wouldn't be granted financial aid, either need or merit based, at small liberal arts colleges. Maybe you need to look further into this category before you conclude that small LACs are not for him. </p>
<p>Where are you in college visits? Does you son have the makings of a short list in his head? Does he understand what is required to get into his top picks? You mention an older brother. Does your #2 want to follow his brother's choice? Or is he going in another direction? Siblings can be very persuasive so if the lad needs some "sense knocked into him" the brother may be the best one to intercede.</p>
<p>Lastly, and this is difficult to articulate, is the GF from the same general culture as your son? I know from our experiences living overseas that some GFs were culturally better matches for my son than others. By culture, I don't mean race or religion, but rather innate values toward education, spending money, family life, priorities.</p>
<p>From our own experience, I would echo what others have said about refraining from criticizing the GF. I would instead concentrate on making reasonable demands on your son -- mainly that he get that EC resume back to its former strength. He doesn't need a laundry list of activities -- just one or two that he can excel and progress in. Talk to him and let him decide what those will be, but make it very clear that you expect him to follow through. Just living overseas is a powerful EC, so don't feel that your son should be restricted by traditional clubs and titles. Basically, selective colleges are looking for interesting kids who do interesting things. </p>
<p>My son and a good friend of his -- both smart, accomplished, talented and interested in top US schools -- became involved with sisters who were, well, although definitely smart, lovely girls, not headed in the same academic direction. We kept our mouths shut and stipulated (demanded, actually) that our son keep up his involvement in his activities. We tried to keep conflict to a minimum. The parents of the other boy carried on vocally and aggressively: it was one blow up after another. Both boys did eventually go on to top colleges and both eventually drifted apart from their high school GFs, but the relationships lasted well into their first years of college.</p>
<p>I agree with groovinhard. Let us do a quick review. His mom agree that she is great and the best choice for him. She is from a group that discuss film, poetry and theater. He spent weeks in antique booksellers hunting for her Christmas present (sounds a lot better than spending 5 minutes buying an iPod for her.) He may regret for his life if he lost girl doing some silly EC.</p>
<p>The villains are the colleges that demand EC as a admission criteria. Using EC to have better idea about the applicant is OK. Using EC as a major admission criteria just teaches our youths to be hypocrites.</p>
<p>If I am an admission officer reading this sorry through his essay, I would definitely pick him over some kid who went to Nepal to promote AIDS awareness. Unfortunately real ADCOM probably thinks the opposite.</p>
<p>Oh, lots of good sense here, as I predicted there would be! I admire the deep thinking of momrath, bomgeedad, and groovinhard. I guess I'm picturing a hypothetical college interview question ''Why did you drop Musical Theater?'' and his answer being ''Well, I fell in love and that took up most of junior year.'' (cue ''Love Story'' theme or maybe it's ''West Side Story'').</p>
<p>I do agree that falling in love is an amazing and vital experience for a young person, particularly of poetic disposition like Son2 and his gf. Would that they could turn it into cracking good college app essays! Boy, are my priorities messed up -- seeing young love through the college app prism!! (the cc effect)</p>
<p>To the folks who assume that I am not setting boundaries and getting on his case about phone and facebook abuse: believe me I am. But I don't always want to be adversarial, particularly since Son is still basically a straight-A student (A+ in Psychology, lol). Besides, there is a point of diminishing returns, beyond which they stop listening.</p>
<p>Love the comments from the childhood sweethearts here! Interesting side-note: GFs parents were high-school sweethearts -- at the school where their daughter and my son are currently students. They graduated together, went to separate colleges, but wanted to be together so effected a merger, married, had 3 kids, moved back to (foreign country) so their kids could attend their alma mater!! So their daughter's relationship, particularly with a nice kid like my son, is pretty much okay with them.</p>
<p>momrath, (very wise and reasonable, thanx) I have 3 teenagers, so we have made -- wait for it -- 29 college visits over 4 years. Yup, 29. Older Son zeroed in on tech schools, and is happily ensconced in his tech school, but Son2 is a whole different animal, so Son1 is no help at all. Son2 has had a list that seemed set in stone last summer, but all of a sudden makes comments that this or that college is ''too large'' or ''too far''. The GF also has a set list, and her mom confirmed that. Her choice schools are all small and exclusive, wonderful schools, but we didn't visit any of them, example: Sarah Lawrence. Why is it I have a hard time picturing my son at Sarah Lawrence.</p>
<p>momrath: great point about cultural differences. We live in a decidedly multiculti city, which I am very happy about. We come from the same background as GFs family, basically Wonder Bread American. As I said yesterday to the guidance counselor, this is something that bothers me as a much larger issue than ds and his gf. It is entirely possible for American kids to go to this school for years, graduate from here, and never get to know any of the local population. I am going to set up some summer activities for my kids to be involved locally, but it is strange that the school is completely at a loss for suggestions, and doesn't see 'cultural exclusivity' as a problem.</p>
<p><strong>a little off topic, sorry</strong> Sometimes I feel that the hostility and judgmental assumptions by some cc posters say far more about the poster than the subject at hand. Ad hominem name-calling (especially about someone's child) seems inappropriate when coming from an adult, and one wonders about verbal abuse on a face-to-face level. </p>
<p>What's sad is you have to wonder if some folks never had the mind-blowing experience of falling in love, or it happened so long ago and with such bitter results that an adult can forever be soured on it. I think that falling in love, at any age, makes the lover temporarily irrational and unsuggestible. Why, oh why, does it have to happen junior year?</p>
<p>Thanks so much again, and keep contributing -- as I suspected, I'm not the only one who has had this situation!
A.M. (whose last name isn't Montagu, that was Romeo's. Juliet was a Capulet)</p>
<p>Anuddamom, The counselors at my son's international high school, which is decidedly multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-you name it, encourage the kids who are headed back to America to consider small LACs as they feel that the third world kids adjust best in a more intimate, nurturing environment. Now, there are plenty of kids who are excel at Big U, but I sure wouldn't eliminate schools like Sarah Lawrence, especially for someone interested in the arts.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I'm an LAC supporter bigtime. My son's experience at Williams has been off the charts positive. I don't know your family's financial situation, but money is available at LACs, even the exclusive ones. Not sure if your 29 visits included any LACs. If not, how about this summer? </p>
<p>Actually your son's group sounds a lot like my son's high school friends -- quirky, arsty, intellectual kids. They have dispersed all over the globe (in about equal parts to LACs, medium sized colleges and large publics) but manage to pick up where they left off when they meet back home over holidays. There is something about their shared experiences in a strange land that bonds them, even as they develop new friends in America. Like the GF's parents quite a few graduates manage to return to this country, even to this school as teachers. The experience is profound and addictive.</p>
<p>Do encourage your son to get involved with something that exposes him to the culture his host country. For my son it was his involvement Boy Scouts and art. Aside from the fact that interacting with an alien culture is a deeply rewarding life experience, it also adds depth to the college application and as I said above, can be an EC in itself.</p>
<p>AnudduhMom: I can empathize with your angst over the situation! </p>
<p>My d was in a relationship during the last two years of HS that certainly served to "shape" her in many ways, and I do not see that as a bad thing. Before this, she had been in a very demanding, competitive pre-professional dance company. Again, BEFORE dating this guy, she chose to drop out of the company (but continued to study dance at the studio) so that she could focus more on her academics and could do more theatrical activities outside of her studio. </p>
<p>Before dating this guy, my d probably would not have even looked at some of the colleges she ended up considering. He is very, very intelligent and absolutely swore, at the time, that he would attend a top-tier school in the Northeast. Interestingly, he was awarded an amazing scholarship and decided to stay in state. She, on the other hand, attends Barnard and is incredibly happy.</p>
<p>They are now good friends and the boy's mom and I are as well. I cherish the maturing process that this relationship allowed in my d and would not change anthing about it! Have faith....and maybe you might want to spend some time with your son looking at smaller liberal arts schools....there are some of those with musical theater available. One further note: my d (who also LOVES musical theater and has worked professionally as a "dancer who sings") has discovered a passion for a science-based field. Your son may also move beyond musical theatre into another field as he matures. Allow that, even though it is hard to imagine at this point. I know it makes me sad to think I might not get to see my d "perform" much more in the future. However, she is passionate about her newly discovered interest and, frankly, I am glad she will not have to live with the vagaries of "life upon the wicked stage"!</p>
<p>Best to you!!!</p>
<p>
I'd like to know this as well. I haven't had a boyfriend yet, and I'm a senior -- does that mean I'm an unattractive, socially inept miscreant? ;)</p>
<p>(Actually, I've been rejected by the guys I've wanted and rejected the ones who've wanted me, because apparently the two are mutually exclusive. At a high school with ~200 students, is that really so strange?)</p>
<ol>
<li>I think young love is a much better alternative than the random short hook-ups now practiced by many teens.
2.Some are just late bloomers. And with easy hook-ups pretty common it's harder to find more stable relationships.</li>
</ol>
<p>The relationship sounds pretty unhealthy to me, but becoming inseperable is a common path for a lot of first serious relationships. In the end it's his lesson to learn. You can offer advice, but you shouldn't meddle any more than that.</p>
<p>But you make it seem as if it's a question of maturity (and no, I don't do random hook-ups either). I could've had a boyfriend by now, if I wanted one enough to be a little less discriminating, but I prefer to wait for someone who's actually worth the trouble. Is that really such a problem?</p>
<p>I know the post from the OP was directed at me, but gosh, if it was "mean" here is what I was working with:</p>
<p>by the OP</p>
<p>"but does he have to spend weeks in antique booksellers hunting for her Christmas present? Does he have to be in public transport for 2 hours on a weekend to hang out with her for 3 hours? Every weekend? Does this have to be his junior year, 11th grade (no do-overs)?</p>
<p>He has dropped most of his EC's, even ones he was passionate about before. Stays lukewarmly in a couple of clubs, but only if The Girlfriend is going. Doesn't sing any more or take voice lessons. Is involved in theater but is content with a minor role (whereas previously he was the biggest ham). Standardized tests slipped this year -- he did better on the PSAT last year (??!!) and was shruggish about SAT, which he took last Sat. Colleges that he was interested in previously no longer interest him. "Too big", he says (note: The Girlfriend is only interested and will only apply to small colleges)</p>
<p>The school thinks of them as a big joke. No one knows who he is (The Girlfriend has been around for years so she is an established entity), except as ''the guy who walks around with his girlfriend like this <em>entwine fingers</em>". In fact, I sat down with his designated college counselor today, and she did not know who he was until I described him that way!! And she had a good old laugh about them. Son#2 and The Girlfriend have been much discussed in the high school offices, as became clear to this dismayed mom</p>
<p>o yes, I am desperately worried. It helps that people understand and commiserate.</p>
<p>He shuts down the conversation if I even try to discuss how all-consuming their relationship is.</p>
<p>Where we are now he would have to do lessons at a music school -- which is great, but he says he can't swing it with his schedule (which includes after school with the gf of course). </p>
<p>They do some ECs, and did a little SAT prep together. He is ''distracted'' though (I keep hearing that from teachers). I almost think the SAT prep they did together is somewhat counterproductive.... He did some SAT prep on his own at home (''no you will not go out with A. until you do that SAT work''), but I had to be a big purple meanie about it."""</p>
<hr>
<p>So if you need blame me while forgetting all the angst, concern, worry, dismay you shared, go ahead</p>
<p>If you just wanted to hear all cuddly replies, I could have obliged, but sometimes hearing from the other side, while maybe not totally accurate, is the PERCEPTION I got, what perhaps the school is getting, his friends, etc</p>
<p>As a mom, you have instincts, and more often than not, mom instincts are pretty spot on, and you are sensing something is not all well in Eden, but suddenly people start talking about young love and how cute and swell and important it is</p>
<p>Yes, it is wonderful, but when a person starts to lose who they are, and you wouldn't be posting what you did if you were totally confident that every is just fine, then trust your gut- your son turned from a big ham to mr Invisible</p>
<p>What is WRONG with parents saying, no today you don't need to spend all day looking for a present, no today you CAN"T take the bus for 4 hours, no today we are going to try the music lesson</p>
<p>changing where you are looking at schools in fine, but if there are constraints due to finances, and some test scores can open up scholarships, then, yes the parent can push if the child is capable</p>
<p>I was in love in HS, BUT I didn't let and my mom didn't let that stop me from being who I was</p>
<p>There is a balance that needs to be kept, and it is great he is maintaining his grades, but doors will start to close</p>
<p>If these two love each other, they can handle being separated a few hours a week to pursue their own interests, if they can't do that, if he is so worried about being not with her, doing his own thing, hanging out with the boys, exercising, etc, , as a mom, I would at least wonder....</p>
<p>Again, be mad at me, its okay, but I think deep down you know there is some truth to what I said, if the teachers at school thinks of the as a "big Joke" and they see them every day, imagine what others that also see them every day think</p>
<p>I am a poster on a website and I wrote what I did from what the OP herself said, if I was wrong, well, is that my fault if that is the perception she shared,and if school staff seees it, and mom sees it....you can make all kinds of assumptions about me...if my words seem harsh, guess somebody needs to say them...your Son's GC laughed about HIM....gee...and you think I am harsh...imagine the people that have influence on your Son's life see him- the people that write his recommendatios and such don't even know he exisits, and he is a new student at that</p>
<p>and yet I am blamed for bring these points to the surface and not getting all gooey</p>
<p>It could we worse...
It could be senior year....</p>
<p>momrath: Okay, Williams is at the top of my son's list, funnily enough! It rang his chimes for all the reasons Williams is the great school you know it to be. He also loved Amherst, Yale and Princeton, and some smaller schools like Wheaton and Drew. My impression -- and I am very happy to know that this is dead wrong -- is that wonderful small LACs don't have as much endowment money as the bigger schools, for example Yale. I would not prevent him from applying to any schools that appeal to him, but I have told him realistically he has to get a decent financial aid package at any of them. You may also have the situation of not being residents of any state for in-state tuition purposes, so there is really no ''cheap'' option. If you have time, momrath, I'd love to hear more about your ''Third Culture'' son's experience at Williams!</p>
<p>churchmusicmom: Your d sounds fabulous also, talented in so many areas. Ironically Barnard is on my S's gf's list! Sounds like she'd fit in beautifully there. (Hmmm, distance from Barnard to Williams is...) (jk) So -- d is a kid who can play Christine Daee and also do cancer research? </p>
<p>These cc kids never cease to amaze me! And the parents are pretty swell too. I so admire all of you!</p>
<p>AM</p>
<p>If your son is serious about Williams, Amherst, Yale and/or Princeton, he'd better get his rear in gear. Good greades with lackluster test scores and no EC's probably won't be enough for these schools even if you felt you could afford them. And some of them could be affordable if your income is low enough. I don't know how Drew and Wheaton are on FA.</p>
<p><a href="Hmmm,%20distance%20from%20Barnard%20to%20Williams%20is...">quote</a>
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<p>My daughter goes up to Williamstown from NYC a couple of times each semester to visit an old friend. She takes the bus. To a college kid the trip is nothing and she gets through a great deal of assigned reading on the long ride. :)</p>
<p>Anuddahmom, I hope she does get to give serious consideration to Barnard...it has been absolutely perfect for my d!</p>
<p>I wish you the best in this...I think your son sounds like he has a great mom who will be there for him when he needs you. He will figure this out!</p>
<p>Take care.</p>