Greek Life at Alabama

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
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<p>Making assumptions about all members of a race based on average or typical members is racist. Because black fraternities may have a different playlist at parties has no bearing on the fact that many of the greek houses have no AA members. If it was merely that there was a lower % of AA members in the fraternities (or sororities) that the general population of the university, then cultural differences, or the strength of historically black greek organizations could be part of the reason. But the numbers goes well beyond that.
The fact that not many aa students rush is a symptom of the problem, not the reason why there are no aa’s in the houses.
It should be an embarrassment to the University and to the greek system that this is even a question anymore.</p>

<p>I seem to remember the youtube video of some white sorority girls singing a Chris Brown song so obviously they listen to “black” music; the divide is not so great.</p>

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<p>It is disappointing to hear that there is blatant “we won’t consider you because you aren’t white” happening in a university sanctioned activity.</p>

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<p>Emmasmum – you took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you!!! NO ONE is saying that hip-hop playlists should be “imposed” on white fraternities - much less that the “white” frats should start exclusively playing rap music. We are talking about INTEGRATING fraternities, not about converting them from one “culture” to another. In integrated environments (as opposed to all-black or all-white), there’s a give and take. People are exposed to various different cultures (which is enriching!); they are not <strong>converted</strong> from one culture to another.</p>

<p>This all reminds me of people who travel abroad and insist on eating only at McDonald’s or drinking only “American” coffee. Why even bother going to college (or to Europe) if you insist on exposing yourself ONLY to people and cultures just like yourself?</p>

<p>Sorry for coming on so strong. But this is majorly upsetting!</p>

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<p>I seem to remember the youtube video of some white sorority girls singing a Chris Brown song so obviously they listen to “black” music; the divide is not so great.</p>

<p>Yeah, I remember that, too. Oh the irony!</p>

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<p>Allow me to candidly clear up some things. The issue is much more complex and much more deep rooted. Y’all aren’t even scratching the surface. I am a senior in a traditional white fraternity that has been on campus for 50+ years. You have correctly pointed out that the segregation issue lies with those fraternities that have been around for only about 25 years or less and I’m going to explain to you why:</p>

<p>It’s all about funding. Everyone here seems to have this idea that the university funds fraternities. That might be true in some cases, particularly with much newer houses, but in reality we pay them a lot more money than what they give us. We pay rent for the land, we pay dues to be part of the greek community at the university, we pay dues to be in IFC, and we have to pay something like $200 or $250 dollars to the university every time we want to have a social event. Anything the university gives us financially is in the form of loans: remodeling, new houses, etc. are all loans. Day-to-day operational costs such as paying the power bill (I write the check every month for my house, it’s usually about $6,000), other utilities, maintenance, meals, etc all come from a combination of two sources. The first obviously is our chapter dues. About 75% of the dues go to daily expenses required to keep the house running and keep food on the table. The other 25% is generally set aside for a social budget for house parties, football game tailgates and so on. Even if 100% of dues went to the daily operational budget of the house, we still wouldn’t be able to keep the lights on for long. As a result the budget is supplemented by tens of thousands of dollars in alumni contributions. Herein lies the real reason why older chapters have not integrated and will not integrate for a long time. If my chapter today were to pledge a black person, we would be issued an ultimatum by a core group of alumni that provide the majority (about 80%) of contributions. This core group was in school anywhere from 1959 to 1972. Catch my drift? The ultimatum would be to ditch the black kid or risk losing funding. If we went out today and initiated a black person into our fraternity, we’d lose all funding needed to keep the chapter alive. It’s a really awful reason, I know, and most of us don’t necessarily like it, but if it means the chapter stays alive, then its what has to be done. Most of my fraternity brothers have no problem whatsoever mingling with good, stand up, black folks, which most of them are. It’s not unusual to see them show up at our parties, and like anyone they’re more than welcome to be there as long as they behave themselves and don’t cause trouble, and as long as the male/female ratio at the party is not compromised. But bottom line at the end of the day we always have the best interests of the chapter as a whole on our mind. Without it we are nothing. So we do what we have to do to keep it alive. Things are slowly moving in that direction. Several years ago we pledged and initiated our first asian member and have had several since. We currently have a member who is of indian descent and have had indians members in the past. We have a half-hispanic kid and a half-arab kid. Maybe once the tight grasp of the old guard is gone, we can think about focusing on black members. But for now it would be suicide for the organization. Again I know it’s a terrible reason but its out of necessity. On top of all that, we don’t exactly have them banging on the door to get in either. We have maybe one black rushee come to our house each year, and they really don’t seem that interested at being there. Our organizational culture is just different…most people would call us country boys…we like to hunt, fish, listen to country, and sit in the bed of a pick up truck drinking beer. We expect people that we recruit to have relatively similar interests…doesn’t matter if they’re black white purple or whatever. We’re a private members-only organization that pays money to be a part of the university community. We can accept and reject whoever we want. Maybe one day we can bring in a black person that shares our interests. I wouldn’t have a problem with that. And to the parent who’s daughter is indian…I think she’ll be OK, I’ve seen a girl in a sorority that I assume is of indian/pakistani descent, and she’s not the fair skin type either.</p>

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<p>Sorry for it being so long it looked a lot shorter in the reply box</p>

<p>As far as sororities go, I’m told by some of the girls i know on campus that they’re ready to integrate, but no one wants to be the first. The sororiteis that have been here forever just can’t have the reputation of being the first. thats what they tell me anyway.</p>

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<p>My son’s play list is very diverse! That boy can dance! : ) </p>

<p>People, this is not about changing the numbers…we have to change attitudes first.<br>
The numbers will follow.</p>

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<p>^^^^ Bravos1186 … Thanks for the brave and open post. I think if you read all the responses that some of the early posts referred to the “outside influences” (alumni and parents) that are a particularly hard nut to crack in the resolution of this issue generally, and as you’ve so clearly verified. Certainly, the rolling cast of actives, as it changes from year to year, who are between 18-22 years of age are not really responsible for carrying forward the segregation, not by a long shot. I’m QUITE sure that having grown up in this day and age of tolerance, MOST (not all) of the fine young men joining the all white houses would be willing to change. This is primarily why outside incentives, either from the University, the National Chapters, and/or other groups should be opening up the dialogue and driving towards change, and laying the groundwork for change. If the sororities are ready, but just don’t want to be the first, then this new dialogue and framed solution forethought might be the key and justifying factor allowing them to finally make that move. Please do not think that ANY of the people posting here put the blame on the collective “you” that are current actives at these houses. We all understand that it is a systemic problem. That is why it is so important to address through open dialogue and a goal for change. Thanks again for your post … it was most welcome … and I might add, a much more thoughtful response from a student other than “It ain’t never gonna change, so don’t even try.”</p>

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<p>Making generalizations isn’t necessarily racist. Some stereotypes have some validity to them. </p>

<p>Bravos1186</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing that.</p>

<p>Emmasmum - I believe the exact opposite. Just as Bravos1186 pointed out - maybe one AA a year and they don’t seem entirely interested. Even if all of the old row Greek orgs openly admitted blacks with no problem you would still only have that 1 or 2 rush.</p>

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<p>uaprophet - I think you need to go back and read my post again, because you seem to have missed the main points. 1) Making assumptions about all members of a race based on average or typical members is racist. 2) the scarcity of AAs who rush is a symptom of the problem. Everyone understands that few AAs are rushing currently.</p>

<p>You have posted that you have graduated and are now working as a ChemE for a large company- I will just say that this is a company that I am very familiar with, and I think you would be wise to try to be open to new ideas and take the training on diversity you will doubtless be receiving to heart.</p>

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<p>Emmasmum, no, that would make someone prejudiced, not racist, and there is a fine distinction. I think we are all prejudiced to a degree. But I don’t think most prejudiced people are hard core hating racists. And all races of people can be both both prejudiced and racist. Those who say only Whites can be racists are making an institutional argument that I find weak. </p>

<p>First, I would like to see more AAs and non Whites in traditionally White Greek houses, but I would also like to see more Whites or non AAs in trad. AA Greek Houses. </p>

<p>Second, </p>

<p>Some of you continue to ignore the FACT that the AA Greek system at UA is VERY strong. It is not likely that there will be very many AA members of trad White Greek houses any time soon for that reason. </p>

<p>Third, I continue to insist that UA is seen as having a problem because it actually does have substantial numbers of AAs for a state flagship. Most other state flagships have sign. smaller percentages of AAs, and even their Greek systems are not that integrated. </p>

<p>Fourth, UA can not force any Greek house to accept someone. Maybe they can encourage, but would that lead to tokenism, or genuine integration? I hope for the latter, but please stop assuming that this is all due to racism. This is a complicated issue, and unfortunately, I think many make assumptions about the South that could be called prejudice.</p>

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<p>Since my DD has indicated that she would like to go through recruitment if she attends UA I have been following the recruitment process this year. Particularly since we are Hispanic. From the pictures posted on the Panhellenic facebook site there were at least two AA students that went through. Whether they received bids, who knows? From the published bid list there were a handful of young women with tranditional Spanish surnames.</p>

<p>My DD hadn’t been aware that UA’s sororities were overwhelmingly white until I told her. While she was taken aback (the chapters at the local university here are fairly diverse and even UT Austin’s sororities have Hipsanic students and a few AA girls in the chapters) it hasn’t detered her from wanting the experience. However she went through a similiar experience with summer camp. She was one of a handful of Hispanic girls that attended her camp. When she first started there were no AA girls attending. By her last year there (8 years later) there were a dozen Hispanic girls and two AA girls.<br>
Change is slow but it does come. Making inroads into organizations where a girls’ great-grandmother, grandmother and mother have all attended/been members can only happen if people are willing to break down those barriers from the inside out. </p>

<p>Additional OOS students going through recruitment will certainly help with this. And from what I could tell from discussion on Greekchat the increase in the numbers of OOS students that were given bids was a big deal this year. When half the house is no longer from Alabama they simply won’t have that deep seated, traditional mind set going into the process. And that means the alumnae base will change as well. Again a slow but sure change.
With that said I am also a firm believer of the Southern maxim (revised for politeness), “When you’ve got 'em by their wallets, their hearts and minds will follow.” Love the idea of increasing the land leases to 120K/yr or so for everyone and then reducing it to $1/yr for those houses that demonstrate a commitment towards an integrated greek community.</p>

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<p>Yes, there were several AA girls who did begin recruitment. I am not sure whether they received bids or not, that would be a question for Kat Gillan in the Greek affairs office :Kathleen Gillan
Assistant Director of Greek Affairs: <a href=“mailto:krgillan@sa.ua.edu”>krgillan@sa.ua.edu</a>
As I have said before it is VERY IMPORTANT to have at least 2 recommendations for all 16 sororities on the Alabama campus. It is not too soon to begin looking for women who are initiated alumni who would be willing to fill out a rec for your daughter. I would also encourage you to ask these women if they would be willing to send “letters of introduction” to their chapter as well. The letters will make the chapter aware of that your daughter is interested in the recruitment process. In some cases the young women will then be placed on pre-recruitment lists where they will be invited to the pre-recruitment events that will begin starting in January. If you need help or want more info pm me.</p>

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<p>I know that there are Hispanic girls in “white houses”…</p>

<p>My neighbor’s D is in a Bama sorority and she’s Hispanic. She had no problems getting invites, etc… she’s in her top choice house.</p>

<p>And, I’ve written recs for Hispanic girls from my kids’ high school who pledged at either Bama or Auburn. </p>

<p>If someone needs a rec, my house in on Bama’s campus. I will write one.</p>

<p>The issue isn’t really about minority status. The issue is that the AA kids have their own houses, so they prefer to rush those. The other minority kids rush the white houses…and do get bids.</p>

135

<p>Yes my company values diversity. That’s partly because almost every demographic/country/etc in the world uses our products. Companies and frats are two different organizations with different purposes. I work with a diverse group of people, but I am not undergoing a months long process with them to develop a brotherhood. I am not living with them or doing anything that a fraternity deals with. We work together and grab a drink after work or on the weekends lol. </p>

<p>I think the problem is misunderstood. Is it a problem that there are few AAs (or vice versa) in those fraternities? No. Is it a problem that people are denied entry strictly upon race (assuming every other quality is in line with that of current members)? Yes.</p>

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<p>^ uaprophet, that’s true of my company, too. Our products are in more than 80% of U.S. households. You may be wearing our skivvies even as we speak. ;)</p>

<p>But I don’t see why it should be any different for frats. Why do our companies (yours and mine) have diverse workplaces? Is it out of the goodness of their hearts? LOL, not exactly. It’s because of external pressures (a/k/a shareholders ;)).</p>

<p>It sounds as if external pressures may provide the impetus for the frats to de-segregate, too.</p>

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<p>I do think only external pressures will require the Greeks to be more integrated.</p>

<p>As someone said earlier, the alums from both black and white houses might cause issues if members just tried on their own…but if it became university-mandated or incentivized in some way, then the alums would have to “shut up” and accept it…especially if the incentives involved things like priority locations, cheap leases, etc. </p>

<p>Some have said that alums would pay the extra costs, well, there’s a point where the alums would not…$50k per year…whatever. At some point, the frats who would pay that penalty would quickly see that the others who aren’t paying have funds for more beneficial things. </p>

<p>The AA houses and AA alums would need to feel comfortable that this would not be something that would dismantle or lessen the networking power of the Black Houses …which many of them depend on for networking in their very successful future professional lives. </p>

<p>I think that is what may be misunderstood here. This isn’t like the old 1960s redlining of neighborhoods where whites get the best zip codes and blacks are relegated to the other side of the RR tracks. The AA Greeks are very powerful and these are kids from affluent homes. They do not considers themselves as belonging to second-rate clubs at all…because their clubs are first-rate.</p>

<p>**Jobs and what goes on in the work-world cannot be equated to clubs & private associations…those are not accurate analogies. Our work world and our personal world can be vastly different. ** </p>

<p>Our work world can be very diverse (ethnic groups, religions, income, education level, etc). While our personal world can be largely made up of people of similar incomes, similar ethnic backgrounds, education level, religion, etc. While our private lives certainly aren’t 100% homogeneous, few of us have private lives that perfectly diverse…matching up with population diversity. </p>

<p>My extended family is multi-racial (white, black, Asian, and Hispanic)…but we’re mostly Catholic with a few Jewish and Prot members. All mostly upper-middle class and college educated. My social circle is about the same. Our social gatherings may look like a rainbow, but we’re really not that diverse when you consider all the other types of ethnic groups, economic levels, and religions out there. </p>

<p>Many of us belong to clubs, churches, etc, that are not well integrated with *full *diversity. In Calif, my Catholic church had many Hispanic members, but few AA members. The AA Catholics tended to all go to one parish that favored their hymns, etc. The Vietnamese Catholics all went to St. Jude’s because there was a Vietnamese pastor there. The Polish Catholics all went to Pope John Paul II parish because the pastor was a native Pole.</p>

<p>Here in Alabama, my Catholic church has few Hispanics and more AAs. But…most of the AA Catholics in my area prefer going to St. Joe’s because that parish is about half AA…and their music reflects their culture. We enjoy going to St. Joe’s occasionally because (ok stereotype coming :slight_smile: ) their choir is amazing. </p>

<p>With the Greeks, the situation needs to be where people feel free to Rush wherever they want (even if that means an AA will want to Rush AA houses)…but they have to feel free to have the options to Rush where they want and have the same chances as everyone else to get a bid. </p>

<p>However, what’s to be done about the lack of ECONOMIC diversity in all of these Greek groups …not many Pell students are pledging anything.</p>

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<p>I desperately wanted this thread to be dead when I checked CC today. I thought about posting yesterday but sat on my hands…</p>

<p>20 years ago I worked for a company based out of North Carolina, and being from the midwest I knew next to nothing about “Southern ways.” One of my first experiences while being trained as a new Regional Director was with a VP that always used this weird phrase “Roll Tide” (this was pre-internet mind you, so I had to ask around and find out what the heck he was talking about.) This man was a savvy business man, and usually a gentleman. BUT, I will never forget when he shook one of the other new RD’s hands, he excused himself to go and wash his hands and muttered racial epithets under his breath. This man was a racists. I had never experienced that before, and it hit me HARD! That was my only exposure to UA until last year.</p>

<p>One of my fears, and the thing that kept nagging at me was the experience I had had some 20 years earlier. It took a lot of research, statistical analysis and a visit to the campus to get past this preconceived notion.</p>

<p>My point in posting today is that I don’t want this discussion to scare potential students or their parents away. When we began our search for the right school, CC and this board were an invaluable asset. they assisted us in so many ways. Open discussion is a good thing, and I am not suggesting in any way that people don’t try and change less than acceptable things. But perhaps we are beating a dead horse at this point? There may still be some problems at UA, many of them may have to do with the Greek system. BUT my daughter has experienced nothing but hospitality since she has been at UA, and maybe she, like other OOS can be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem.</p>

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<p>*I desperately wanted this thread to be dead when I checked CC today. *</p>

<p>*But perhaps we are beating a dead horse at this point? *</p>

<p>I agree. Completely. </p>

<p>I hope this thread ends.</p>

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<p>In the Crimson White today -</p>

<p>[Barriers</a> still stand in sorority rush process | The Crimson White](<a href=“YouA moves from Youtube – The Crimson White”>YouA moves from Youtube – The Crimson White)</p>