<p>I’m applying to transfer to UD in the fall and was wondering if the greek system is open to transfer students as well. I’m not currently in a sorority but since id be coming in as a junior I know some schools have rules against upperclassmen rushing. It seems like a good way to meet people though. Is rush in the fall too? How many sororities are there?</p>
<p>crobinpa, i don’t think parents are giving the greek system a pass, it is no different than going out for a sports team or a spot in a musical, you take the chance of not getting what you want. actually, since ud had a record number of girls sign up for recruitment, they actually required the individual sororities to take more than their original quota. also, delaware doesn’t provide them with the resources, that is the up to the individuals themselves.</p>
<p>While I tend to agree with suzyt123, my D did get into a sorority, and as far as I know it was one or the one she hoped for. I’m sure that I would feel very differently if that wasn’t the case.</p>
<p>So, what do you think UD or parents should do, crobinpa?</p>
<p>californication9 - As far as I am aware, rush for sororities is only in the spring. UDel greek life has there own website and you probably will get a lot of your questions answered there. They probably have an e-mail contact listed if you have additional questions.</p>
<p>suzyt, It is nothing like a sports team or a spot in a musical. Those endeavors require an individual to demonstrate a talent, and qualified professionals attempt to make an objective assessment of the candidate’s skills and value to the team or ensemble. When an athlete, musician, actor etc., do not get chosen, they can ask for feedback on why they were cut and what they need to do to improve, and in all likelihood it will be given. They also have the option to see the competition or activity in action and make their own determination if they got a fair shake. The sorority rush system is completely opaque and a girl gets no feedback or support from those who cut her. She becomes invisible. As I said before, one only has to look at the photos of the individual sororities to see the superficial criteria by which many of them choose. To deny that is dishonest. It is discrimination, it is unfair, it is hurtful, it is dangerous, and it is wrong. The university provides facilities to hold the events, it allows the greek system to advertise and use the email system and many other forms of support and resources, not the least of which is paid staff who oversee, cater to, and shield the greek community.</p>
<p>MHC48, I think parents and responsible adults at UD should simply do what is right when they believe that students are discriminating or being discriminated against: They should call it out, and demand that it stop. As I said before, if the context was racial or sexual orientation, people would act on instinct (and fear of liability) to eliminate the issue. But somehow, the greek system seems to be immune to scrutiny.</p>
<p>crobinpa- </p>
<p>I think you are right there can be situations where a girl is “cut” for superficial reasons such as appearance. And if that is the case, I’d say, why would I want to hang around with a bunch of girls who judge people based upon their appearance? Those girls who received an invite to the “top” sorority may find their popularity comes with a price- the girls may not be as nice and friendly as those in the less popular sororities. Remember, too, that there is superficial judging on both sides. Some girls who don’t get asked back to any of the top sororities simply drop out rather than giving a chance to the less popular sororities who may have asked them back. So- if they think it’s only worthwhile to join one of the “top” sororities they are also judging the girls in the less popular ones to be less worthy of consideration. I’m not saying this applies to your D, since you did not give the details. I think most girls end up happy with where they get a bid, even if it was not their initial first choice. As to advice for your D, if she was my D I would tell her to move on and pursue clubs and other social outlets where people will get to know and like her for who she really is and not be judged based upon her appearance. :)</p>
<p>How does this work? How do they find out what sorority picked them or how are they notified that no one wanted them?</p>
<p>I hear you PAmom59, but your agrument is bascally “2 wrongs make a right,” or at least “make it ok.” That is a classic fallacy. But to be clear, I am talking about girls who are truly emotionally damaged by this process and are tossed aside and left to fend for themselves, not the ones who admittedly are probably in the majority and move on taking it as a lesson in life. Even if there is one girl who becomes emotionally unstable as a result of this process, it s worth looking into and fixing. What I don’t understand is how people seem to think that this process is somehow immutable, above scrutiny, sacred, or whatever. In reality, it is completely unnecessary and whatever benefits the girls who make it through get, they are not worth the damage done to those who don’t malke it through. And BTW, I am talking about amending the process here, not banishing it (it would probably be less controversial to suggest banning Christianity or Judaism than any greek activity). Also, I happen to know for a fact that it is more than one girl who has not been able to cope with results. Furthermore, Pamom, you admit that…“there can be situations where a girl is “cut” for superficial reasons such as appearance.” That is called discrimination. Discrimination IS NOT OK!! It is 2012. Subsitiute the words “being black” or “being gay” into your satement for the word apearance, and it should be clear. </p>
<p>Also, don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the advice on how to counsel my daughter. I would never turn down sage and well-intended support from any quarter. The problem is, to a 19 year-old, it all sounds so “lame” and “out of touch.” Nonetheless, as parents we persevere, and hope that at least some of it sinks in.</p>
<p>Okay, so maybe I’m naive, but just so that I know what we are talking about here, are there sororities at UD which are generally identified or known to all the students as the “poplular” one or which only accepts the “in crowd” like high school? Or which have only jocks or geeks or primarily one religion? What about minorities? Do they have their “own” sororities or are there some sisters of color in a number of the sororities.</p>
<p>And what are you saying, crobinpa are the invidious criteria being used to cut some girls? Looks? Money? Social skills? Party-ers? Drinkers? Is all of that clearly known to all of the girls? </p>
<p>What is the percentage of UD students who go out for Greek life?</p>
<p>@billsbillsbills</p>
<p>the way sorority recruitment works is that during rush the girls who are prospective new members are invited to visit the various sororities that are recruiting. After each “round” of visits, both the girls, and the sororities, rank each other, and in the next round girls will be invited to smaller number of sororities based upon the matching in that mutual ranking. If a girl does not get invited back to a sorority that she ranked highly, then she knows that she was not picked by them. On the other hand, a girl can be invited back by a sorority that she did not highly rank. The process is designed to allows for matching of girls to sororities based upon their mutual preference. This process leads up to “preference night” in which girls are invited to 2-3 sororities and then the rank them according to their preference. If one or more of the sororities picks the girl, then the girl will get a “bid” - if there is more than one mutual selection, the girl gets a bid to her highest ranked preference. </p>
<p>Girls may drop out of the process at various times if they are not invited back to the sororities they prefer. While girls are advised to keep an open mind about these things, sometimes a girl will drop out of the process after not being invited back to her “top” ranked sororities. Girls are advised to keep an open mind because it may turn out that the sorority that chooses them may really be the best match even if the girl did not initially rank them highly. This goes to the point in my last post- some girls are only interested in being in “top” sororities- akin to being a member of the “popular crowd” in high school and as a result they may not give other sororities a chance :)</p>
<p>Thanks pamom, that I knew but what I meant was how does it actually happen. Where do these meetings happen, how do the girls get results, a phone call, email? Are they all in one room for the final results?</p>
<p>Not sure I agree with the discrimination term that is being used. ALL of the pledges attend the functions with an standard rush t-shirt so they all walk in unified. Of course, some girls will have better first impression appearances but how can Delawere eliminate that??? The sororities hands are somewhat tied with a large number girls visiting and a very limited amount of time to visit with them. My daughter is on the shy side, but she knew that she had to make an impression and go out of her comfort zone to make an impression with only a 15 minute window of time. Also, in some situations, sororities vote on the girls the second they walk out and in others, they wait until they meet all of the them and then vote. Of course, people can be overlooked or mistaken in these cases. This is how it is handled in sororities across the country. For those that are worried about the process, they should consider the final outcome before they choose to go through.</p>
<p>DD is a UD grad. We didn’t have Greek life at our college so DH and I weren’t experienced. As adults we knew people who were still close to their Greek friends. When visiting DD freshman year and seeing all the signs encouraging rush, I thought it was cool. Who wouldn’t want sisters for life and access to all sorts of fun things? Sign me up! She wouldn’t rush. Now this is a kid who through her HS days had often tried for things she didn’t get and as an athlete had her share of losses, so it wasn’t that she never learned to handle that pain. I’m guessing that deep down she didn’t want to deal with the possible rejection that was much more personal than not getting a part in a play or spot on a team. </p>
<p>I have never believed that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Sometimes it leaves you weak and in pain for a very long time. I always felt I was perfectly fine before the tragedies in my life and really didn’t need them to make me a better person. </p>
<p>I don’t think rush is comparable to anything else in life. You don’t go on a job interview with all the other interviewees. You don’t see them every day. And when one of them gets the job, they aren’t being showered with gifts right in front of you. You don’t share a bathroom or meals with them! Plays, choruses and teams all require an amount of talent that you often know you posess or don’t. Popularity may be involved but it isn’t the only criteria.</p>
<p>I think the fact mentioned earlier that the sororities were required to take extra members probably makes it harder for the ones left out. One year we happened to be visiting DD right after rush. As we walked through her dorm I was suprised at the elaborate decorations on some of the doors. She said those were girls who were accepted into sororities. She said we wouldn’t believe the amount of little gifts and such these girls got from their new sisters every day. As an RA she’d had to handle a couple unlucky rejected girls in her dorm who roomed with these new Greeks. She said it was about the worst part of her RA job because in the end, the process is so superficial.</p>
<p>There ARE plenty of opportunities to have a wonderful, friend-filled experience at UD, but for the rejected I’m sure that makes little difference now. Crob, I wish I could give you and your daughter a long distance hug. I’m sure she knows that she will be fine and have fun in the future, but what does that matter now when she’s feeling so left out? My SIL actually left her Texas college when she wasn’t accepted into her family legacy sorority - ick!</p>
<p>I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with sororities and they can be awesome experiences for many girls. But I do think that there should be a place for everyone that wants one. If you’re not happy with the option available to you and decide not to join, then that is your choice. What is the issue with taking a bigger number of girls? It’s not like UD has sorority houses where all the members live and have limited beds. IMHO, it’s cruel otherwise.</p>
<p>Suzy, You continue to apologize and make excuses for the greek rush system with classic fallacious arguments. First it was two wrongs make a right, and now "it must be right because everyone does it that way. My favorite argument though is, if you don’t want to be discriminated against and disrespected, then you should not rush because it is inevitable that a certain percentage of the girls will be discriminated against and disrespected…kind of like the rapist who says, “look at what she was wearing, she asked for it”. Also, if you reread your last post you will see that you are basically saying that with the way it is done (justified by the fact that is done that way everywhere which to you means it is alright) sororities are forced to eliminate and invite girls on superficial criteria…that is the essence of discrimination. There really is a simple solution…UD should allow only as many girls to go through rush as there are spots, with an allowance for some drop out. The only objective way to select the girls allowed to rush is GPA. Of course it is not perfect, but it is rational, objective, justifiable, explainable, and humane. The humane part, Suzy,is the part that you seem to not understand, oh, but that’s right, the girls cut asked for it.</p>
<p>“This is how it is handled in sororities across the country. For those that are worried about the process, they should consider the final outcome before they choose to go through.” </p>
<p>suzyt123 is absolutely right!</p>
<p>My dd knew she wanted to join a sorority before ever applying for college. Of all the colleges we visited (many) there was only ONE college who had rules in place so that every girl who rushed (they didn’t call it rush) received an invitation to join a sorority!</p>
<p>My dd put alot of time and effort into her research of sororities (as did her dad and I) and as the Greek system has very specific rules, knew the outcome may not be what she wanted.</p>
<p>We may not like the process, but that is the way it is done in the Greek system (very easy to find on Google), UDel did not make the rules!</p>
<p>NJMom, I will remind my daughter that she should Google all the potential abuse and harm to her out there. Then if any of it happens to her, I will tell her she deserves what she got…afterall, it was very easy to find on Google. By chance did they not have Logic classes where you ladies went to college?</p>
<p>crobinpa,</p>
<p>I can appreciate that you are hurting for your daughter. Parents are always happy when their kids are happy and conversely, we all suffer the heartaches with them!!</p>
<p>Having said that…you are very closeminded if there is an opinion that differs from yours.
There is no need to insult those who do not agree with you.</p>
<p>And with that, I will not respond to anything else you may post here!</p>
<p>Thank you for disengaging njmom, you added no original or constructive thought anyhow.</p>
<p>Girls Girls Girls…Cut it out. Play NIce or go home…</p>
<p>Now that the lack of a bid to join a sorority has been compared to rape, I find it apropos to parapharase a quote from Animal House:</p>
<p>But you can’t hold a whole sorority responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole sorority system? And if the whole sorority system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!</p>