<p>I often come to this forum for helpful advice about many issues at my kids colleges. I have to agree with njmom and leave this one with the nasty responses I’ve received after trying to help. Crobinpa, as I initially stated, my heart aches for your daughter and I hope that she can find her happiness at one of the MANY opportunities that UD has outside of greek life. If she has inherited your harsh tone, there will certainly be more disppointments.</p>
<p>crobinpa, Would you please provide more details of your daughter’s experience? Did she continue through the entire process and not get selected by any sorority or did she drop out after not being selected by one of her top choices?</p>
<p>Outsider here but truly shocked at the tone this has taken…</p>
<p>We are only as happy as our least happy child…my heart breaks for crobinpa…but</p>
<p>We, as adults, may or may not understand the sorority process. Yes, it tends to exclude, yes it may be judgmental, yes to all of that…</p>
<p>It has been this way forever; some of us have prepared our daughters for this prior to attending college with information and guidance, knowing they would be thrown in to this…</p>
<p>I don’t attempt to think it is ever going to change…and I am happy both my girls got through it…</p>
<p>But, again, to think it will change by lashing out, is naive…</p>
<p>Some of us investigated this when we looked at colleges: one of my daughter’s first questions when going on tours was “how cut-throat is sorority rush? Does every girl get a bid who stays in the process”?..she believed that schools that had difficult rush periods would not have a student personality that would fit hers…overall, not just in Greek life</p>
<p>At the schools remaining on her list, the only girls who do not get a bid are those who have a favorite one or two houses, and refuse to consider others…at the school she attends, one of her friends dropped out because she did not want any sorority but one…</p>
<p>This examination by my daughter, btw, eliminated a number of large schools that are peer institutions to UDel around these parts…</p>
<p>Crobinpa: I hope that your daughter gets through this…and gets involved in other aspects of college life that she can embrace…it is not all about Greek life…</p>
<p>So to wrap this up…</p>
<ol>
<li> A semi-apology to anyone I offended. “Semi”, in that I really do hate to hurt anyone, or see anyone hurt…period. The other side of the “semi,” is that I really am disappointed by the lack of compassion, by some, toward the girls who are emotionally damaged by this process, the lack of concern and appreciation for what some girls might actually do to themselves as a result of this kind of pain, and finally, the sense of entitlement projected by some mothers of the girls for whom it worked out. </li>
<li> I was also really disappointed in the level of critical thinking and debate from the proponents and defenders of the rush practices. There really were no logical or expansive counterarguments made to the points I tried to make in my posts. I do want to make the distinction that I do not consider the repetition of unsupported opinions to be argumentation or debate. I think my intolerance toward that might have been frustrating to some.</li>
<li> I really appreciate the kind words of support and sage advice that have been expressed here on this board, even from those with whom I disagree.</li>
<li> I am stunned and gratified by the number of private messages I received here and elsewhere from parents whose daughters have suffered similarly as a result of this experience. Their stories of their daughters’ emotional devastation, suicide watches, drop-outs, transfers, losses of friendships and alienation, to say nothing of their own fears and frustrations as parents, bolster my confidence that my outrage is justified and something must be done about this. </li>
<li> To that end, I have a plan of action. It really has little to do with my daughter specifically. My goal is to raise awareness of the unintended consequences of this unnecessary anachronistic and discriminatory practice within the UD community, and attempt to see some mitigating safeguards implemented going forward.</li>
<li> Finally, my utmost and primary concern is my daughter. I am doing everything I can think of to help and guide her through this disappointment, including enlisting resources at UD. I really do feel that it is partially the University’s responsibility to aid her (and any other girl similarly injured) in negotiating this difficult period and to help her reorient herself at UD now that the greek world appears to be closed to her. I feel that the University shares in this responsibility because they aid and abet this hurtful practice and should share in trying to repair the damage, the dual benefit, of which, is raising the awareness of the problem while getting my daughter the breadth of support that she needs right now… I do want to say that we have been very impressed with the level of attention, genuine concern, and thoughtful support she is receiving.</li>
</ol>
<p>Signing off on this topic …crobin.</p>
<p>Please let us know if you are at all successful in your quest…</p>
<p>I am glad to know that UDel is helping with your daughter; speaks volumes about the school’s support system…</p>
<p>Rodney- I’m confused about the UD rush process- are girls at UD guaranteed to be placed in a sorority if they continue to the end of the process? If that is true, then I’m not understanding the story of disappointment from crobinpa.</p>
<p>Pamom: I am an outsider to this; I was trying to be Switzerland…so not sure…but a good question to ask any school prior to making decisions if this is important to your child (male or female for that matter)…</p>
<p>Oh- why did I think you were a UD parent? Do you have a D applying to UD this year? It sounded like your D had done the research on UD but maybe I misunderstood your post.</p>
<p>My D graduated from UD in 2010. She was in a sorority for 3 1/2 years. I asked her today about if a student completes the whole rush process is she guaranteed a bid in at least one sorority. She said yes (maybe this has changed this year). She told me that the girls who don’t get in drop out of the process when they aren’t accepted by any of the sororities they want to get into. It was her impression that this was the issue that was most emotionally traumatic to the girls, not the issue of getting into a sorority at all. Of course there are always exceptions. Perhaps this has changed this year as I understand there were a record number of girls who signed up to rush.</p>
<p>Just to clarify my previous post. There are 4 rounds to the rush. If a girl completes all 4 rounds successfully she is guaranteed a bid somewhere. However, some girls may not receive any return requests from sororities following each round. In this case a girl would then be out of the process and would not get a bid. According to my D there are 3 “top” sororites at UD and that many girls do drop out of the proces if they do not receive return requests from any of these three. Hope this clarifies things.</p>
<p>Mwallenmd: Thanks and that does clarify things. Did your D belong to one of the “top 3” sororities, or to one of the others? I wonder if she shared with you what makes those “top 3” so desirable?</p>
<p>Just putting in my two cents now (for various reasons, I have not been able to before - I’ve PMed a couple of you here so you know why). </p>
<p>The idea that there are “3 top sororities” is a real problem. It is this kind of judgment that colors the whole process - from both sides. It makes the process very competitive. Some girls who are rushing are mature enough to realize that there are girls they will like and not like in every house; others are too judgmental or just not mature enough.</p>
<p>I’ve talked to a lot of parents about this (UD parents and parents of girls at other colleges) and found out that girls who didn’t get into their “top choice” sororities, but who were open to joining wherever they got a bid, ended up super happy where they ended up. Like the college process, there is more than one place where a student fits. </p>
<p>I would hope that the rush counselors at UD prepare the girls rushing, but if you have a teenage daughter, you know that sometimes it is hard to get through to them.</p>
<p>The fact that so many girls rush at UD (I heard 300 more this year than last year) and there aren’t enough spots is a real problem – or is the whole thing about the “top sororities?” Either way, it is absolutely crushing, devastating, heart-breaking for girls who don’t get what they want. It is absolutely in their face. I think the university or Panhel Council should put a program into place for the girls who are devastated. What they go through – whether they got cut or just didn’t like their options – is just unbearable. And very scary for their parents.</p>
<p>My college had half as many students as UD and nearly twice as many sororities with huge pledge classes. And it wasn’t a college known as one that is very Greek. My DD told me yesterday she heard that two more sororities are coming to campus. </p>
<p>I actually found a website this morning in which students at each college rate the various sororities and fraternities. While I think it is ridiculous, you can read the comments and see there is a range about each house. Even about those that are the “top 3.”</p>
<p>If your DD hasn’t gone through the negative side of this, then you really don’t know what it’s like. My DD has a happy ending finally (just PM me if you want to know), but after way more rejection than I could have handled. </p>
<p>There has to be a better way.</p>
<p>If anyone has a DD who gets accepted to UD and plans to rush next year, please PM me. I want to share what we’ve been through so you can prepare your DD.</p>
<p>Pamom: no, no vested interest in UD, but we did investigate all sorority policies when we toured schools, D1 had looked at UD back in 2007 but did not care as much about sorority stuff (although joined one at her school)…</p>
<p>I advise my students on all aspects of student life; they often ask me about this so I follow the procedure at all schools; it isn’t pretty anywhere, honestly, but some are worse than others…UDel never had a rep for difficult rush ( which is why this thread got my attention)</p>
<p>Not to hijack this thread, but if one is concerned, they should def look at rush at Indiana and Penn State…now, that, is a nightmare…</p>
<p>I may start another thread later today but I wanted to add this:</p>
<p>Many, if not all, of us has raised their daughters to believe that what is important is what is inside them; their values, education, and empathy for others…not the way they look or act superficially…it was the way I was raised, and I passed those values on to my daughters…</p>
<p>They attended summer camps and other activities where these values were enforced, for the most part…it starts getting sticky right around middle school these days…the girls start to feel that we, as parents, sold them a bill of goods…</p>
<p>That, IMO, is why this sorority process is soooo difficult for us, as parents, and honestly, for many of our kids…there are still schools out there where the process is more “holistic”, more in tuned with personality and character, rather than pizazz…</p>
<p>And then, even in the cut-throat schools, there are glimpses of this in certain houses…not the “popular” ones, but usually the ones the girls do not gravitate to…why? I don’t have all the answers…</p>
<p>At D2’s school, her first choice was the second lowest ranked one on campus…she was the only one of all her friends who wanted it…why? Who knows…</p>
<p>So, I really did not have intentions of posting anything additional this to this thread, but Friday, I witnessed something that summed up everything, and I felt I should share it here. Friday evening I went to UD to spend some time with my daughter who continues to be shattered from her experience from rush. At this point, she has lost two (what she thought were) very close friends who “got in,” and of course, is dealing with her feelings of rejection and not being “something” enough. Anyhow, strolling through the Christiana Mall we walked smack into a pack of stunning girls from Sigma Kappa wearing t-shirts proclaiming…“Sigma Kappa…Perfection by Selection.” My daughters pain was palpable. Even though I find these girls behavior repulsive, shameful, and insensitive, I have to admire their candor and envy their obliviousness. I hope none of your daughters are wearing this message.</p>
<p>With respect and still with sympathy, crobinpa, your first intentions were the better. It’s time to move on, for both you and your D’s sake.</p>
<p>This is still a time of bonding and solidification for the new girls in any sorority and they will do lots of things like those shirts to bring them together with and integrate them into the existing group. It’s not a philosopy, just a tool and reflection of that. FWIW, my D is still friends and does things with, two girls who dropped out or didn’t get in.</p>
<p>I’m sorry your daughter is hurting. But I can’t help wondering how your D might have perceived this whole process differently if she had been one of the ones “selected.” Would she have been proud to wear this t-shirt without a thought for its effect upon the girls who were not chosen? It seems to me that regardless of the hurt, she has learned a valuable lesson from this experience in how to treat (or not to treat) other people. And if she feels she has lost two friends from this process, I would ask, were they really her true friends in that case? Not that I’d close the door on the friendship, because right now they are caught up in the newness of the whole sorority thing, and perhaps after some time passes they may miss her friendship. </p>
<p>As far as not feeling she is “something” enough, she has apparently allowed others to pass judgement on her worth and that is never a good thing. Feelings of self-worth need to come from within, not from being accepted by a popular group. I’m sure that she will get over this in time, and emerge a stronger person. Perhaps even stronger than those girls who need to flaunt their selectivity on their clothing.</p>
<p>Just my opinion.</p>
<p>MCH, based upon the ambiguity in your statement I somehow I doubt your sincerity. I am guessing too, that the apple did not all far from the tree. </p>
<p>PAMom, Your question is a really a great and fair one, and it has been the one that has nagged me through this entire mess. My guess is that my daughter would have been oblivious to the pain of those out of sight, but she would have been far more discreet and caring for those close to her compared with how her “friends” are now with her. But, we’ll never know. As far as those friends go, it was they who closed the door on her, but as you say, maybe the will seek her out at some point. Couldn’t agree more on the point of allowing others to pass judgment, but that has been my point all along. How can any one girl be expected to stand up to the judgment of hundreds of girls across numerous sororities when that judgemnt is final and unexplained. It is too much to ask, and in some cases dangerous to those girls. That is why I have tried to call attention to it and bring about some much needed reform. Of course those on the inside of that system like MHC will always try to protect the status quo that benefits them and theirs, but that’s why there are people like me in the world who move on only when they feel that they have done what needs to be done.</p>
<p>crobinpa, I’m sorry you feel that way about what I said. I was only trying to give you what I thought was sound, practical parental advice: that continuing to dwell on this as you are here and possibly letting your feelings spill over to your daughter only prolongs the hurt and feelings of rejection you said she feels. </p>
<p>I haven’t the slightest interest in preserving a status quo, much less - in today’s world - one as trivial as the sorority system at UDel. I just don’t think that “reforming the system” will help your daughter feel better. </p>
<p>So for me, what I would do (what I <em>have</em> done with my kids when they suffered painful rejections) would be to help her pick up, dust off and move on with her strengths to find happiness and friends in other areas of school. </p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Just reading this thread because one my daughters is interested in Greek life. “Sigma Kappa…Perfection by Selection”. Really? Wow, sad , scary and depressing. This is college?</p>