Both my husband and I are struggling for the last 8 months with what to do with our son who is at Upenn. His first semester at college was very bad and scored a GPA less than 2.5. We suggested him to take the semester off which he also felt towards the end of semester. He was a very successful kid at high school, weighted GPA > 5.0. 15 APs and with score of 5 for almost all of them. Several extra curricular activities etc. Anyway, he finally got in Upenn easily. He also got in Dartmouth, John Hopkins.
With a lot of enthusiasm and proud we dropped him off for the first semester last fall . He selected tough courses from the CS major that he wants to graduate in (Yes, now I understand that it was a BIG mistake to select tough courses). I did not study in US and had no clue about how colleges in US is like. He started complaining about one of the course and said it is difficult, but thought he can do well down the road when I asked him to drop it. We had a lot of challenges during the semester. Many days he will not respond to our calls/texts and then we had to drive down 3-4 hours to search for him in the campus and he says he was stressed and sad with low grades in home work. I also believe his addiction to social media, music and TV shows probably also was a reason for low grades, but he does not agree. Another problem is his unorganized approach to things and also the college is very traditional and do not allow students working together on home works/ projects.
Anyway, he took the sprint semester off. He wants to go back to the college , but I feel he is not ready , his behaviour has not changed. I am afraid he will again have another bad semester which may increase his stress, and may affect him psychologically. I want him to go to a state school instead of Upenn, but he does not budge at all and have typical teenage anger- very difficult to even discuss things with him.
Please advise what should I do. Should I let him go back? what can I expect? Should I take him to a psychologist?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Stressed out parents
Is he on academic probation at Penn after his first semester? If so, another semester like his first one will result in him leaving whether he wants to or not.
I will say that a 2.5 is a C+/B- average. It isn’t unheard of for smart kids to get those kinds of grades when they attend a tough college. He may be able to bring his GPA up if he is more sensible about his course load. I’d consider sending him back, but (1) make sure he is signing up for a mixture of course difficulty and not too many credits, and (2) I’d insist on access to his grades portal. And insist that he sign a FERPA waiver so you can get the info even if he decides to change his PW. If you are paying and he doesn’t seem to have changed his behavior, I’d insist on this.
What has he been doing since he left UPenn in January? Why wasn’t he in some kind of counseling or something to help him figure out what went wrong?
Yes…counseling would be my suggestion ASAP. If you are paying for him to attend college, he needs to have some guidance in terms of what went wrong, and how to fix it.
You’re a good parent for asking the hard questions. From my outsider perspective, I’m more concerned about his repeated disappearing acts and feelings of sadness than the grades. I would definitely have him evaluated by a mental health professional before allowing him to return. College can be so rough on so many, including (maybe especially) those who have traditionally been high achievers.
Well, it sounds like he might be an average or even below average student in a group of high performers. Not everyone gets A’s. But his problem is not his grades, it is his approach. He could have accepted his lot at a competitive school; he could have re-assessed his approach to studying and time management as you suggested; he could have sought more outside help from the school.
Instead, he took a semester (and summer) off. Inferring from what you did not say, I suppose he did not work either and you have been supporting him the whole time. He continues with the same behavioral patterns that through his best efforts led him to leave school. Why pay for that? Why subsidize it? Why pay for college at all? Perhaps a gap year working would catalyze his maturation.
You could ask him about seeing a therapist - no harm in that. But you are trying to lead this horse to water. And even if he agreed to see a therapist, he might not agree to a mutually acceptable goal of therapy i.e. maturing, developing manageable goals for academic performance and time management, etc. He could simply use therapy as a forum for complaint. And therapy is slow. The likelihood that change would occur in the next 6-8 weeks is roughly zero.
From a parenting standpoint, it sounds like you might be coddling him and he appears to have an excellent grasp of that dynamic and your anxiety about him feeling upset. However, you will have to be willing to upset him (which will certainly precipitate anger and rejection as a first pass on his end) to leverage any change.
On the other hand, you could strike a bargain: one more semester with an adequate and agreed upon performance or else the future is a different school or working. You would have to be willing to enforce your consequences if need be.
Many thanks for your quick suggestions! I am now more convinced that therapist is the next step
@thumper1: He is interning at a startup since Jan this year
@intparent : He is not on probation, but requested for time off which the college agreed. It was partly due to my suggestion that he decided to take time off
I also missed to say that part of the problem was that he focussed so much on the toughest course and ignore the other less complex ones where he could have scored well. I still can not fathom why did he do that. If not , he would have got low grade only in one course. . He says "tunnel vision " , but I still dont know why?
Has the son performed well with his job at the start up? If he has decent work habits, I would send him back. 2.5 is not terrible for freshman year majors in engineering or CS. Op says he hasn’t changed his ways with respect to TV, etc., but he might be bored when he is not working.
He should go back and take advantage of the counseling and advising services available to him at UPenn. The counselors spend their entire careers working with students like him and are the real experts in this situation. Perhaps he will pull his grades together. Perhaps he will transfer out. But give him time to sort this out himself.
A good friend of mine became very alarmed when she saw her son’s freshman year grades. She did not want to send him back to the U, but he was not too keen to take a break from college and not be on track with his friends.
She ended up hiring a life coach, of sorts, over the summer. I seem to recall she had a different name for what he does & his title, but I cannot think of it right now. Anyhow, the man specializes in teens and young adults. Had good resources for mental health help, substance abuse help, learning disability testing, etc. as needed, depending on the client.
Her son started to meet with the LC every week. As summer was coming to an end, the son decided he would take a year off from the U and instead, continue to work with the LC on underlying issues and the “next step”.
As it turned out, the next step was taking one class at a U closer to home, then eventually transferring there as a full time student & living on campus. A couple years later, her son is doing well—seems steadier and much more confident and comfortable with his penciled in goals.
My friend said the LC was terribly expensive, but worth every penny, seeing how much her son got out of it, and how he perhaps needed to talk to an adult who was not his parent.
I’ve always thought one of the greatest gifts we can give our children is access to resources and good help.
I see things a bit differently regarding the “disappearing act”: unless you had agreed in advance to have lunch or a specific time that didn’t interfere with his hectic schedule it’s pretty normal for a college student to not be located by his parents when they show up for a visit.
I’m guessing he skipped CS 110 and started in CS 120, skipped to math 114, took cis 160 and didn’t listen to his adviser who suggested first semester freshmen only take 4 units.
(Math 114 and CS 120 require a minimum of 10 hours of homework each. Cis 160 can be 15-20 even for kids who aren’t slackers. If he took the freshman English course that all students shudder just thinking about it due to the sheer amount of reading and writing it requires, it’s a wonder he had any time to breathe. All of these are hard on top of being incredibly intense. Add one or two more courses and kids barely have time to eat, shower, do laundry’s, and sleep. They get burnt out and suffer from the side effects of sleep deprivation - depression, haggardness. To give you an idea of how serious that is, sleep deprivation ie., less than 6 hours, is used as torture.)
Even if he didn’t get sleep deprived, even if he took 4 units including the three azbove… ifthis is pretty much what happened, a C+/B- is quite good.
You should not panic at all.
Your son has discovered he’s not superhuman. He met his limits, something all bright young men must do at some point, for their own sake.
Of course he should return to Penn.
Really: It is not that bad. We’re not talking about 2.5 at your local school taking 14 easy credits.
This term, he needs to “pad” his GPA. Once he’s recovered, he can take whatever he wants in the spring. Reassess after two semesters.
His GPA will recover quickly if
you absolutely require him to take only 4 units.
you require he gets a tutor for his classes from the first day, even if the class seems easy.
you require he take NETS 112. It’s a fascinating interdisciplinary course that also serves as the gateway to a unique Penn major. And it’s relatively easy. It is only open in the Fall. (If he not allowed to register for the class, obviously, don’t penalize him.)
you require he take one class clearly known as an easy class and no more than two more courses, for a total of 4 or 4.5 units. (He could take the cinema at Gregory credit: it would require him to get out f his room once a week, meet with people and comment on a film. It’s an easy .5 unit.)
you require he go to the Penn counseling center every week. (Penn has a very good center and the seas knows how much pressure students are under o they encourage students to go.)
I think there are a couple of possibilities here. After high school, he might just be burned out. Exhausted. Used to being at the top of the heap, now he’s at an extremely tough school with other people who are exceptional. Taking the hardest classes in a challenging major, and he’s used to perfection.
I think about what I would do. If he really wants to stay there, I would say to give it another try, but take a low load, easier classes to have a more normal social life and to ease into things, knowing that the major may have to be changed or his time in college extended. If it doesn’t work well that way, I would advise a change of school. But perhaps there is no grade inflation at UPenn. Seems like some of those AP’s would give him course credit?
My son started early at Carnegie Mellon, took the hardest two summer courses he could, towards a CS degree. He got two C’s, and while I was horrified, he was happy he passed, because many don’t. And you know what? It was fine, he survived, but he said starting out like that was a huge mistake. I don’t see anything wrong with your son wanting a social life and easing into things, as long as he’s not depressed. He sounds like a good kid. But he needs to understand that if it doesn’t work out at this college, it’s not the end of the world. It was probably such a big deal to him and the family to get accepted, he might feel that he has to stick with it no matter what. I would make sure he knows I am his advocate, not his critic!
Another bit of perspective- schools like U Penn are filled with the very, very top students across the US. If courses are scored on a curve, that will be a C. I know it can be a total shock for both students and parents from going from As to Cs but it isn’t the end of the world or a reason to switch schools. Make sure your son talks to a counselor but also get a commitment from him that he’s going to go to all his study sessions, office hours, etc… Basically taking advantage of every bit of extra help. Sometimes the brightest kids are embarrassed to ask for help and need to be reminded that everyone struggles at some point or another.
There are great resources at Penn to help your son. There’s tutoring, help with time management and study skills, managing stress, note taking—you name it. I recommend you look into the available options for him when making a decision. Could he possibly have ADHD? It can be really hard for kids with executive function deficits to thrive in college without the supervision they had in high school.
The one thing about Penn, as well as Hopkins, is they both have a competitive, cutthroat vibe. My D21 is a legacy at both schools but we’ve discouraged her from applying to either one. Although she’s very bright, and a strong student, we feel that a big school with a competitive student body would not be a good fit. I don’t know your son’s personality but he might do better in a smaller school where his struggles are less likely to go unnoticed. On the other hand, I think you’ll find a great deal of help at Penn if you initiate a request. It might make your son feel better knowing that the reason schools like Penn have so many resources is because smart and capable students like himself need help adjusting to college. Hope you find a solution!
My question would be, what is the distribution of the grades underlying the 2.5 average? If it is all C’s and B’s – then I think you and your son might have jumped the gun with treating that as a big problem. Assuming that he completed all classes, that is NOT something that would indicate academic trouble – rather, Penn requires that students maintain a 2.0 GPA and not have any more than one incomplete or F in a term — https://www.college.upenn.edu/node/362 - so that 2.5 looks very “safe” to me.
I wouldn’t consider C’s in first-semester college courses at a rigorous college to indicate a problem. Just a learning experience. College is not high school. And the first semester is often a time when that lesson has to be learned the hard way – so not at all uncommon to see weaker grades at first. (That’s probably why MIT grades all first semester freshmen on a Pass/No Record basis – they know that adjustment to the pace and expectations of college work can be tough)
But of course, mathematically it would also be possible for the student to have a distribution of grades including A’s, D’s, even an F or incomplete - and still end up with something above a 2.0 average. So that might indicate something of a larger problem.
I think you have been a great parent by intervening so early. You were also smart trying to get him to drop a class- too bad he didn’t listen!
If you think he has a diagnosis of some sort (including depression, ADHD, addiction to games, whatever) try to pursue documentation and have him register with the Office of Disabilities for accommodations such as a reduced courseload. Regardless, since you and he took action, it is possible the school might allow a reduced course load while he returns. That can make a big difference when kids are trying to negotiate transitions to college with certain obstacles.
I think the situation is different if he has financial aid versus full pay by you. Be aware that too many withdrawals can jeopardize financial aid by the way.
I disagree with the idea of having all sorts of requirements. He is old enough so he needs to be motivated to help himself. You can suggest and help him access resources, and if you have the money you can provide a tutor or coach (some are online) but in my view (and we are all different, consistency works best in a family!) having requirements is regressive and often backfires by keeping you in control when he should be.
CS is a very tough subject. Many kids who get 5’s in physics and math nevertheless take all the intro classes in college. It helps with stress and eases them into the course sequence that is particular to each school.
This can work out fine. If it doesn’t, there are many ways to finish college and not everyone follows the strict timeline of 4-6 years.
If he does go back, get tuition refund insurance! It depends on him having health issues or psych. issues but can be very helpful.
Move him out? Does that mean him dropping out of U.Penn.
There are some great suggestions in this post. Weird that someone is saying he is not a good fit for the school.
He is probably going through adjustment. He should start with less challenging courses so he adjusts to the MANY CHANGES happening and then build up his momentum.
Don’t panic.
Make uses of all available resources to rebuild his confidence. He worked hard to get into the school, remind him that. If he struggles in the future then maybe reconsider but right now it is too soon to doubt.
Starting college is a huge transition and it can be especially hard for a high performing kid whose schooling and activities have been highly structured (and I’m not saying you’ve done this to him… 15 AP’s tends to suggest a high structure education and probably not a lot of free time.) They enter college with little to no assigned homework in a class that meets a 2-3 times a week, their activities are gone so they have all this free time and lots of distractions. He’s not on academic probation. He’s passing his classes. Being unresponsive is pretty typical first semester. I’d let him try another semester and ask him to get some counseling at school to help him keep on track. I don’t think C’s are enough to pull him out of school unless he were losing a scholarship or financial aid.