<p>Many pages back, someone linked to an article written by a prof, detailing how common romances are between profs and students, and they listed several schools. One of them where I was a grad TA. I remember they made us go through a week-long seminar during orientation where the main theme was, “Don’t date your student.” I mean, they had us doing role-playing games. And we were barely older than the students we were teaching.</p>
<p>And now I hear that the profs thought it was ok for them to date students. I wonder what the point of that seminar they made the TA’s go through. Perhaps to eliminate the competition?</p>
<p>“I don’t see it as too different from meeting someone at work. If you watch 'Mad Men”, the (male) executives are always marrying their secretaries. Same kind of age/power discrepancy." - tptshorty</p>
<p>Well, if they do it on “Mad Men” - I guess it’s okay at our kids colleges.</p>
<p>Conflicts of Interest may arise when such relationships occur between and among
faculty, staff, students and prospective employees. University policies and ethical
principles already preclude individuals from evaluating the work or academic
performance of others with whom they have intimate familial relationships, or from
making hiring, salary or similar financial decisions concerning such persons. The same
principles apply to consensual romantic and/or sexual relationships and require, at a
minimum, that appropriate arrangements be made for objective decision-making.
Reporting Policy</p>
<p>Where a conflict of interest exists, or may exist, in the context of a consensual romantic and/or sexual relationship, the individual with the power or status advantage shall notify his or her immediate supervisor. The supervisor shall have the responsibility for making arrangements to eliminate or mitigate a conflict whose consequences might prove detrimental to the university or to either party in the relationship.</p>
<p>Consequences</p>
<p>Failure to report a consensual romantic and/or sexual relationship, or to comply with an arrangement to mitigate conflict of interest, may result in discipline or dismissal according to the rules appropriate to the individuals involved.</p>
<p>OK, Barrons - exactly how is a student supposed to remain in a class where the professor is unable to evaluate his/her work? How do they get a grade? And don’t tell me the TA does the grading, because the TA reports to the professor.</p>
<p>The earlier point about these policies protecting BOTH parties - the vulnerable student, and the possibly manipulated professor - is a good one. I am not unsympathetic to college professors and these situations. I worked in a high school, and I felt bad for the male teachers. The girls, who looked like adults even though they were only underaged teens, routinely violated the dress code. Male teachers were afraid to call them on it because it would show that they were “looking” somewhere other than the student’s face. My daughter had to get after-school help in the hall, because the teachers were afraid to be alone in a classroom with a student for fear that they’d be accused of something. (We had cameras in the hallways but not in the classrooms). My MIL worked in a hs where a teacher committed suicide after being falsely accused of an inappropriate relationship by a manipulative student. </p>
<p>That said, there is still no question that it is up to the teacher or professor to draw the line and behave in a professional manner. They are older and they are the professional. It may not be easy, but it is the ONLY way to behave. End of story.</p>
<p>And in this case, the OP’s daughter told her mom that at first she thought this guy was creepy because he was inviting his female students to Happy Hour. (His under-21 students, mind you). That’s not an innocent professor sitting in his office with a hot-to-trot student coming after him. He was a predator on the hunt for students to date. And that is WRONG. No ifs, ands or buts.</p>
<p>Edit: Barrons, according to YOUR quote this guy can be fired:
He did not report the relationship. Ergo, he is subject to discipline or dismissal.</p>
<p>We know none of the actual facts of this case. We have heard one likely biased side and also have not seen the school’s policy to my knowledge. So we don’t know anything about what could happen. Obviously if he violated a policy there can be consequences which may or may not include termination. I would doubt this case would be sufficient to terminate a tenured prof if it was the first violation and the student did not feel any harm (parents don’t count). Predator is a loaded word usually used with highly illegal relationships. While this might be tacky it is not illegal unless there was also harassment. He might be an opportunist but that’s not illegal by itself.</p>
<p>Tacky? Tacky is when you wear white after Labor Day. Tacky is serving dinner guests box o’ wine. I’d hardly call this guy tacky, but that’s just me. You may have a difficult time with calling him a predator (although his actions can be thought of as predatory), perhaps you could settle on ‘unethical’.</p>
<p>My “Mad Men” comment was a joke. it is a TV show. I know it exaggerates reality. (I love Jon Hamm, but not Don Draper). But it is true that many people meet their significant others/lovers/spouses at school or at work. That was my point. After the quarter/semester, if a professor/TA and student are no longer in a teacher/student relationship, and no longer in an evaluation (grading) capacity, then they are just two adults. Yes, maybe one is 30 (or 50 or whatever) and one is 19 (or 20 or 25), and the former has more /experience baggage than the other, but legally I don’t think they can be stopped from having a relationship because they happened to meet on a college campus. If you are that scared for your young daughter, then don’t send her out into the world.</p>
<p>So any guy–or girl–with a nice smile, some charm, and found attractive by the opposite sex is a predator to you? We are not talking about 10 year olds here. 18 is legal in every state in the US. I don’t think there is a bag limit. If dating 18 year olds is your thing it is not illegal or predatory in the legal sense. Most people don’t have the energy to live that life but some do.</p>
<p>I think the idea for grading is to hand it off to somebody else in the dept. Maybe even a TA. Nobody said it was easy to implement and I doubt it comes up much in reality.</p>
<p>As I said, I really don’t care if they want to date, as long as He/She is no longer still directly teaching or supervising or advising (professionally) him/her. </p>
<p>The comment about being scared for my young daughter is nonsensical, and has nothing at all to do with the conversation, given that my “young” daughter jumps out of airplanes and scales to the tops of high icy mountaintops, and some teacher would be the last thing I would be concerned with vis-a-vis her safety. If he can still jump and make it to the top of the 14ers and use a harness to repell over the tops of places most people don’t even want to stand, he’s in the running, I suppose, as long as he’s not still grading her papers. :p</p>
Exactly. Just because a student is no longer is a professors class does not mean he/she will never cross paths with them again in the academic environment. He/she might be majoring in the field in which the professor teaches, the student might need a letter of recommendation later, etc. The faculty are expected to behave in an ethical and professional manner. In and out of the classroom. Is there not a professional Code of Conduct?</p>
<p>As an aside, just curious, why did you leave UW, Barrons? Not implying anything-- just wondering.</p>
<p>I don’t know Barrons personally, but from reading many of his posts, I think he left UW because he did his grad school there and graduated. DUH!</p>
<p>This guy has violated most/all schools regulations if he was grading someone he was sleeping with. Even if tenured, I think he’d be gone.</p>
<p>The predator label should probably only be applied if he repeatedly has relationships with students. Maybe this is actually the first time the adjunct prof had a relationship with a current student and he was just overcome by the OP’s daughter’s attractiveness, charm and pursuit. [I doubt it, but we just don’t know]. </p>
<p>I don’t condone what this guy appears to have done, but I think Barron is correct in saying that life is not black and white. Legal relationships do occur frequently between professors and students (so long as the prof is not grading the student) though this seems pretty unprofessional while the kid is still in school and risky to the student. A dumped professor (or one who dumps his/her pretty young thing) can write bad recs, poison the well with other professors, or otherwise make life uncomfortable for said pretty young thing. But, such behavior isn’t necessarily in violation of either the law or school rules (lawyers can tell me I’m wrong here, but I suspect it would be very hard to make a case). And students do pursue professors romantically. This is also legal and probably never in violation of either the law or school rules (even when consummating the relationship would cause the professor to be in violation of the rules). I experienced both obvious and subtle pursuit, sometimes persistent, by female students when I was a young professor and know of several marriages that resulted from female student pursuit of male professors (as described by current wives). Professors just need to exercise judgment. I think the point is that life is more complex than maybe we’d like.</p>
<p>The student in question is an adult. No matter how egregious the teacher’s alleged conduct, there was no reason for mama to take the matter out of the daughter’s hands. The school is 100% correct - if the student is not willing to file a complaint, and if there is no credible allegation of ILLEGAL conduct, then it neither can nor should take any action.</p>
<p>so Barrons, why did you leave the University of Wisconsin? JYM626 says I’m wrong–you left the UW and it wasn’t because you did your grad school there and graduated. What’s the real story?</p>
<p>Got my two degrees and a real job in Chicago. I believe I am in fine standing without even as much as an overdue parking ticket or library fine. At least they let me serve on an alumni board and do college fairs on their behalf.<br>
Students at UW have lots of sex. It’s just a fact and more than many other schools according to some survey of students I saw some years back. At Illinois it was like 40% were having it regularly while at UW it was closer to 80-90%–highest I found in that survey of many schools. Wish I could find that study again. But I have no direct knowledge of any student-prof relationships there. I’d asume there were some.</p>
<p>annasdad-
It doesnt have to be illegal. It is more likely that if the behavior of a faculty member is in violation of their ethical standards, their code of conduct or their contractual agreement, they can get the boot. This guy isnt tenured. He is a part time adjunct instructor. If it is a fire at will state they could just show him the door. Who knows.</p>
<p>Please lets not turn this thread into irrelevant discussions about a school’s “extra curricular activities.” Its childish and unnecessary nonsense. I trust my DH’s comments about the coeds when he went to UW. I won’t repeat it.</p>
<p>A few people have asked whether or not I know if this instructor is an actual predator. I do not have proof that he has hit on other students but I can tell you that he didn’t deny hanging out with young students at bars when I called him out on it. His response to me is that it’s all innocent and he sees nothing wrong with meeting students outside the classroom. He gave some bs on how he likes to meet new people and he’s social blah blah blah! He also “flirted” with another student so much that it made her uncomfortable that she mentioned it to my daughter. The emails he was sending my daughter during spring break even made her uncomfortable. Sense a pattern here???</p>
<p>This guy is a JERK and as far as I can tell he’s a predator. He’s tagged in pictures on FB with students that show that they attend the other schools he teaches at. A few of the girls have public accounts so I can tell that they’re in class of 2014 which would make them 18-19 year old freshman when the pictures were taken/posted. He’s using his classroom as a dating pool and it’s sickening.</p>