<p>gabagoo–I can totally feel your pain. I just read your thread to my H. I feel some comfort in knowing we are not the only ones. I do not know what to suggest and was hoping I might learn something or get some ideas from this thread.</p>
<p>My S did graduate from college w/ a physics major, math minor. But, it was very, very difficult. He had to take a medical leave and it was just a nightmare (don’t want to go into details again) getting his requirements done to graduate. This is a kid graduating top 5% of HS class, earned 740-780 on SAT math, SAT 2 math and SAT 2 physics. (Can not remember exact numbers)</p>
<p>He is totally unmotivated to do anything. S is on anti-depressants. I do not know if these do anything or not–suspect not! He also sees a psychiatrist. He is unmotivated to the nth degree. I am very concerned. I do not think it is a question of maturity. He has always been different. I wish there was a magic pill to take.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for that post CollegeShopping</p>
<p>It sounds like you know what I am going through. Especially the part where “they know everything.”
My wife and I had a conversation tonight and it seems we will choose the same path as you. But I don’t expect it to be pretty. Were talking the car from him. No job with me. He must finish his last semester for his associates if he is to live home. When he quits he is to move out. Buy insurance. Work two lousy jobs, most likely flipping hash. My heart is breaking. But I see know way out. </p>
<p>Its amazing. Kids will go to a mechanic to fix a car, because the mechanic has experience in fixing engines, goes to a doctor for a checkup because the physician has experience with healing, a lawyer for legal advice, but in picking the EXACT same occupation as his dad? NOpe, I just don’t know what I’m talking about.</p>
<p>Im glad your son has come along. I am also thrilled that you are happy about his hapiness. My wife and I should be so lucky. Loving someone can really hurt at times…Oh, I think its really cool that even though its NOT what you had planned for him, you are happy…that really is great.</p>
<p>I am so sorry. Its UNBELIEVABLY frustrating, isn’t it??? You’re there thinking "why is this happening??! Doesn’t he know how LUCKY his is to be so young and have so many choices?? You try and help…and its like bailing water with a teaspoon. The silence, the frowns, the anger, the…nothingness…it burns a hole in your soul and begins to rot everything else in your life. It saps the perfectness of a perfect day right out of you. And you keep lowering your expectations in order to keep hope alive that he JUST may meet one once in a while.</p>
<p>One day your mad, then you feel bad. Somethimes I want to grap him by the scruff of the neck and REALLY show him people who have stuff to feel bad about…and then the next minute you want to hug him and plead with him “WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP YOU???”</p>
<p>And then you always end up realizing that if YOU feel THIS bad, can you even come close to understanding how frustrated, confused, scared and sad our sons feel???</p>
<p>Please, read, I really hope things work out…I understand how hurtful it is to see someone with so much potential not being able to grasp how to use it. Take care.</p>
<p>It really sounds like some fresh starts are in order. I know my sons really rose to the occasion when working for other people . Maybe the Europe chef route sounds too daunting. But what about a much smaller deal in some relatively cool location? By this I mean a family run restaurant in a community that appeals – Aspen CO or Austin TX or Santa Fe. – Let him be a young man in a cool spot . </p>
<p>Kids rise or sink to the expectations of others. Instead of expecting him to fail, expect him to succeed – expect him to mess up some but also expect him to grow. </p>
<p>Read them with your son. Laugh. Say, “OK, now what. We gotta find you something that you love. Let’s start fishing.”</p>
<p>I’m serious. Maybe he needs a plate full of smorgasboard. Honestly, I think if it were my kid, I’d say “let’s set you up in Austin/Denver/Santa Fe for a year and see what you think and learn about the place. I’ll kick in $XXX and you gotta come up with $XXX and you go see the world some.” Be generous. </p>
<p>Final note: The word “but” negates what comes in front of it. So, saying “I love you but you are making me nuts” has the focus on the second half of the statement (You make me nuts). </p>
<p>So learn to reversed it. Say “You are making me a bit crazy here, but I love you.” This is hard to do because we typically say the supportive thing before WHAMMO we whack the kid with his shortcomings. Reverse it. It is amazingly powerful stuff. Suddenly he is hearing that no matter how weird it gets, at the end of the day, you love him.</p>
<p>“You are making me a bit crazy here, but I love you.” There are no words that ring truer than these. It wasn’t until I changed my own perspective that my daughter began to change her own.</p>
<p>We went through a very difficult period with our daughter and the journey is still a work in progress. My husband and I also have our own business and it has caused our daughter to feel very insecure. There were times we stuggled a great deal especially when we started out. The lean times seem to create a fear in some kids while others can only see the benefits.</p>
<p>There was a point that I just didn’t think I could stand anymore, and considered a more tough love approach. I realized how scared and alone my daughter felt, and knew that I could not push her to stand tall until she was ready to do it on her own. It has been less than a year since she left her 4-year college and since than she has been attending CC. This could not have been easy for her because she has three older siblings who have done very well in the academic arena. As each day passes, I see that some days are great, others are o.k, and the good days are very good. I have reajusted my thinking but I haven’t changed my goal for my daughter, and that has always been to see her happy. She is not there yet but with every success she owns, she grows. It seems like baby steps sometimes but that is really o.k because she is doing everything in a more thoughtful way.
I also never thought my daughter would be able to look ahead and understand that what she does would have an impact on what will be. There are kids that take a little longer and need there parents to guide them during these rough patches. Your son like my daughter has been diagnosed with depression, and I think the most dangerous thing to do, is to make a child feel like you don’t believe they could succeed. My daughter felt like she let us down, and I realized that I did simply because she felt like that. Now I try very hard to keep the original goals (happiness, earned degree,and being a good person). There will be additional goals as time progresses, but for now, it really is one day at a time. </p>
<p>I found it helpful to not think too far into the future with my daughter…the mind could allow you to see the worst. Work on the first step …he needs a job, and it is probably best if it is not with you so he can learn from someone who does not love him and will judge him based solely on his own abilities not the bagage of his past behaviors or performance. He needs a fair chance to turn things around with all your love, guidance, and support behind him.</p>
<p>It is not important who they are right now…it is who they will become. Many hugs to you and to your son.</p>
<p>I will share a story that didn’t work out too well. </p>
<p>The parents got divorced while the boy was in his early teens. The boy decided to live with his father because the father was an easier parent - drinking, partying, not going school were all fine with him. The mother was a successful business woman, with a lot more financial means. She always felt guilty about the divorce and not being there for her son. The son always came and stayed with her whenever he needed money. After high school, the mother got him a car to go to college. He took the money for his tuition and wasted on his friends(he used to buy food/drinks for his friends, and maybe that’s how he kept his friends). Needless to say he was kicked out of his college. His mother spent money to send him to various vocational shools, bought him an apartment, but he always stopped going after a few weeks. Every time in speaking with the mother, she always had another hope(oh, he is going to CC this semester, and then he’ll be going to the flagship state school next semester) for her son. He was a master at playing his mother. Whenever he failed, it was always someone else’s fault. His mother so wanted him to success, she just kept on listening to all of his next “do well” scheme. At over 25, he is still living off his mother. </p>
<p>We have all told her to stop funding him, and be his enabler, but she just couldn’t do it. In the long run she is doing him a disservice. I really admire what Collegeshopping did with their son. It must not have been easy to do the tough love.</p>
<p>Our older daughter did decide to follow my footsteps, I guess I am flattered. I did help her to get few initial free internships, but I wanted to get a job on her own. I asked her not to apply at my firm and I didn’t ask my friends to push for her, even though they were all keeping an eye on her progress. When she got a job, her own sense of accomplishment was priceless. It gave her a lot of confidence. No matter how successful you are when working for your parents, you always wonder if you could make it on your own. I know a lot of successful business people who encourage their kids to work for other people before they work for the family business.</p>
<p>gabagool - good luck with your son. You are a great father and husband for caring and trying to do the right thing. I hope you’ll get the support you need on this board to help your son.</p>
<p>It took lots of guts to do what you did. I don’t know if all fathers feel like I do, but I am horrified by the idea of my son suffering…suffering of any kind. Physical, mental, emotional. Any time I think he feels indignation about something in his life, I feel SO ROTTEN!! I would do ANYTHING to take that pain and humiliation away from him…and I know that is a problem. I know many people have to suffer to straighten out their life. </p>
<p>Today, he told me that he was NOT going to quit college. I guess I should be relieved, and I am…a bit. But he said it with so little conviction. I think he saw the dissappointment in our faces and MAYBE took to heart a bit of the information I gave him and maybe is getting a little scared right now. </p>
<p>The problem has temporarily slowed, but it will not go away, Im afraid. </p>
<p>Many times I have recommended “Emotional Blackmail” by Susan Forward. It is an excellent book for both parents and young adults. It takes two to play the emotional blackmail game – Forward writes about operating in a FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) and we have to deal with the FOG to make progress. </p>
<p>Honestly, I hope you will get a copy for you, your wife and your son. It can be a great way to say “look, we’re all getting into some behavior patterns here that are not working well. What can we do better?”. You may be surprised how much son HAS been hearing you – and how much he craves your approval, even if he’s not sure how to take the steps to get it. </p>
<p>This is from Mad magazine (1960’s?)</p>
<p>Son: I got into medical school</p>
<p>What he wants to hear parents say: We are so proud of you!</p>
<p>What parents say: “So, you think you are going to make a good doctor with the way you treat your sister?”</p>
<p>Great recommendation, Olymom. “Emotional Blackmail” is a really excellent book.</p>
<p>Also, I’d suggest some calming down. “Nothing is the end of the world but the end of the world.” My mother used to sometimes say this to me when my kids were in Junior High. For some reason, it stuck.</p>
<p>There are thousands of paths to a healthy, productive adulthood. Very few of them involve outright panic. </p>
<p>As Mark Twain said, “I’ve lived through thousands of tragedies in my life and a couple of them actually happened.”</p>
<p>Dramatic parenting begets dramtic childrening. Just sayin’</p>
<p>When my sone wanted to quit, I told him plainly that I have not just been paying for his education, I have been paying for “paper” - meanning “degree”. He realized that if he wants to continue having our support, then he better finish. He did and thanked me several times after he realised that having degree makes huge difference in job market (or fingding clients). However, my S’s reasons to quit were different. He knew exactly what he wanted to do (since about 8th grade in Junior High). His program at college was co-op, he has been working at few places (co-op = quarter at school, quarter at work, so summer off, takes 5 years instead of 4). He felt that he could do the job after couple year at college (he was correct, most of them could do the job). I did not care about his ability to find the job, I told him that I want to see college diploma. As I mentioned, I was correct.</p>