Romani, you notice I didn’t mention traditional clubs at school. I was talking in a much broader sense of developing one’s passions.
I also want to say that I don’t think her workload is too heavy for a high school student. Both of my kids had more workload while in high school and also danced ~15 hours a week. Their only down time were Fri, Sat/Sun evenings. They danced all day Sat and did their schoolwork all day on Sun, and had 3+ hours of homework on weeknights. They went to a very rigorous high school where they had a paper due almost every two weeks, plus tests and projects. They said they had so much work that they had to pick and choose which one they wanted to focus on. They became very good at time management by the time they went off to college. That being said, both of my kids loved their high school experience because most of their friends had a similar schedule. They didn’t feel like they were an outcast because they took schoolwork seriously. At their school, it was cool to be smart.
Most kids will whine and want to take an easier route when things get tough. My kids had want to to stop ballet or piano when they were younger every time it got tough (couldn’t master a new skill or didn’t get the part they wanted). As a parent, I had to be a cheerleader and sometimes as an enforcer to help them over come their anxiety. I did it by giving encouragement and also ask them to stick it out until end of semester or year. They often got over their feelings once they started to do better. After few years of dance, it was them who wanted to do more, but along the way they did try tennis, lacrosse, fencing…and didn’t stick with them.
I think it is normal for a kid to want to quit when things get tough. I am not sure if a STEM school is the right choice for a humanities student, but it doesn’t seem like there are many options for OP’s daughter. If it is possible to create a curriculum for your daughter that is not as heavy in STEM then I would encourage her to stay, or at least have her stay until end of year.
" No one can study for 12 hours a day, watch tv for 3-4, and sleep for the rest." A high school student has about 6 hours per day of classwork, of which some may be PE or other non-academic activity. This student is described as spending 2-2.5 hours on homework. That’s a total of 8-8.5 hours, hardly 12.
Did I miss the OP saying that the daughter spends all her free time watching TV? Not joining clubs and teams doesn’t mean you are watching TV all day. As far as “needing” to be in activities, yes it’s a good idea, but some people are less drawn to organized activities than others. Is it possible the OP’s daughter isn’t fitting in socially at this school? That would explain the lack of interest in activities and the desire to return to be with her old friends.
This is one of those life-long struggles isn’t it? How long do we ‘eat our wheaties’ - force ourselves to do things because they are ‘good for us’ vs. when do we admit that something isn’t working and cut bait. When is it copping out or entitled behavior and when is it acknowledging a truth about ourselves that we should live with? We can probably all point to times when we wished we’d stuck it out and others when we regret putting up with pain for too long. I often which I had a ‘control kid’ - that is one kid that I could take path A with and a ‘control’ in which I did nothing and could then choose the best route once I see the results. And when it involves our kids, the responsibility for making that call feels huge - even bigger when there’s kid #1 saying ‘you blew it’ when you didn’t make me do X (or made me to X). You can be sure that whatever you choose, somewhere someone will tell you it was a mistake no matter how it turns out. You just have to make the best decision you can with the information available. Make the call and be kind to yourself afterwards.
I would never send my child to a STEM school for high school (or an arts school, or any other school that focused on one thing). Why? Because high school should be a time to be exposed to many different disciplines, not to train someone for a future career. How else will your daughter discover her interests unless she’s exposed to new things? I’d pull her out this instant and send her to the regular public high school. Doing something you hate, no matter how prestigious the thing is, will never give you an advantage.
Our kids attended a 3000+ high school that is not nationally ranked. But the honors kids there got a great education. My parents had offered to pay for private school and there are some excellent nationally ranked ones in our area, but we never regretted our choice. They both ended up with amazing opportunities (a Science Olympiad team that went to States every year, an amazing array of music choices - multiple orchestras, bands and singing groups.) Neither kid had to work too hard which gave them a fair amount of time to explore things outside school. My oldest ended up doing a lot of computer related stuff and I believe the time he had then led directly to the job he has now at Google. The more I see of the life of kids in the high powered STEM magnet schools the less I like it. I’m glad that my kids got a good education, but also had time for other stuff.
I agree with @Massmomm about high school not being the ideal time to specialize. One of the things I like about my kids’ school is that everyone must take a math, science, English, and SS class every year. I think in high school they are still changing a lot and a subject that doesn’t interst them freshman year may fascinate them a couple of years later.
I’d let my child transfer in this situation. The local high school is large enough that she probably can find some challenging classes and if she is feeling better about where she is she will probably do better overall.
Forgive me if this has been said already but since you are in Texas wouldn’t she be better off for safety Texas admits at the regular school since Texas values class rank so highly?
I agree with the points that many others have made about a very bright kid who doesn’t love STEM at a STEM based school. Romani made a great point early about being allowed to make a mistake and change your mind at this age. That is a great message for a kid that it’s OK to stick your neck out there some to figure out who you are. If I had to do it over again RE accelerating a bright kid who tested well early but doesn’t love a subject I would not have accelerated. Saintkid #2 ended up just a tick below several automatic scholarship cutoff numbers with his GPA although the SAT was above with room.
" A public high school with 2000 students that is average and is not nationally ranked. Lastly, this elite STEM school that has a 22% acceptance rate, 10-12:1 teacher/student ratio, every class is AP level, nationally raked, and has excellent exiting test scores. "
Seems to me you are more interested in the “prestige” than the actual education.
We live in a school district with huge numbers of low income students, teen pregnancy, HS drop outs, very transient student body.
But, the HS also has a good honors/AP program. The kids don’t get the AP classes until junior year, but they have honors starting in freshman, and the kids have to have the grades to get into them to begin with. This level is very challenging and it does weed out kids who are disruptive and discipline problems.
So you should probably look into the “actual” program at that school and not just dismiss it because it isn’t “nationally ranked.”
Several parents’ comments with kids who never attended a STEM school suggest you should have your D withdraw now and not look back. Other parents with kids who were/are in STEM schools recommend your D stick it out for a year, having first-hand experience with that type of school. I lean to those in the latter group. I also agree with @gouf78.
Your post @18 of your D’s choices indicates that she probably made the best decision at the time, and it still may be the best decision. Take the grades out of it as, obviously, not everyone in rigorous schools is going to get all As or all Bs. Colleges know the rigors of your D’s school, and will take that in consideration wherever she ends up applying. Take out the Associates degree discussion; it’s a red herring. This could be a benefit to you, possibly saving some bucks off college tuition, but she will be starting college with many freshman level classes, perhaps skipping a few. Same with her AP classes; not every AP class with a score of 4 or 5 will be accepted, depending on the school she ends up in.
Work load, social aspects, friends. These do matter. With homework and class rigor, in any good high school (in your case, if the local public HS has honors/AP classes), she will need to work hard to stand out, and her work load at the STEM, while seemingly high, is not atypical of either a public or STEM school. But based on yours and your wife’s description of the local HS, she may not feel the need to put in extra effort, or could feel put down by her classmates if she tries too hard. In her current school, it is expected that the students will study hard and most of the kids are there because they want to succeed, not just in HS, but in their college years.
Socially, she could try to become involved in clubs, and there should be many different things for her to try. Making a good friend or two is a huge benefit. She also might be able to get involved in her local HS for sports or music activities.
You noted that “she loves tech, robotics, English, and hates math, this wasn’t forced at all, but yes she isn’t loving it now.” Seems like some good reasons to stay around and finish the year out. Can’t see how just a few more months would cause burn out, and her perspective may just change. I suggest you all meet with the school’s principal and guidance counselor for a candid discussion.
I have two kids in a Magnet/STEM program. They knew they were giving up some things, and they knew they were incredibly fortunate to get into the school. They both agreed to stick it out for the first year, with the option of returning to the public HS, but knowing that they only had one chance at the STEM school and could never return. One is now a senior, the other a soph. Are things perfect? Nope. Is it for everyone? Nope again. Do they work hard? Yes. Both ended up deciding the benefits outweighed the negatives. Many graduates from their school go onto non-engineering/math programs (English, poly sci, you name it). And discussions with their school’s alum indicate that they were very well prepared for college and the experience made their college years easier.
Several posters asked why a child who doesn’t really love math and science would attend a STEM school. My S was interested in being an architect until one semester in a STEM school convinced him to study humanities. However he stayed at his school and graduated.
So why did he stay?
- Better social atmosphere. Students were far more accepting, no stigma in being a smart kid, the school offered all sports teams but there was not a pervasive sports culture that existed at our local public.
- Overall teaching/classes were better. The social sciences, language arts, foreign language classes were top notch.
Did he grumble about HS? Sure! But so did my other child (who attended the local public). He will also admit that he made good friends, participated in some great EC’s and got a wonderful education. His grades were very good.
As for the OP, I would have the child give it until the end of the school year. HS is a big adjustment and since she seemed to like it at first I wonder if it isn’t something of a case of needing to get used to the workload and the social aspects.
As a parent with a kid who leans more towards humanities but is at a specialized STEM school (public) that is very project heavy, I say, listen to your kid. But also, have her stick out the year. At D’s school, there is very little homework, if you do the work in class and in “advisory”, which is a class period designed to get help/catch up, do homework, move ahead. Kids who don’t use that time wisely have probably 2 hours of HW a night. Most everything is digital and having every assignment as a Power Point, Prezi or something similar would not be unusual.
BUT-this isn’t for all kids, even the very bright, motivated STEM-oriented kids. Every year, some leave for one of the comprehensive high schools. Some do so because they find that although initially they DIDN’T want a choice of EC’s or sports or arts and music, now they do. Some want a larger course selection, others want more leadership opportunities. Some just want to have a wider group of friends. If D’s former classmates are any indication, most of them are thriving, even at these “lesser” high schools. And I have to wonder what the “bad element” is that makes the public HS “slummy”. That’s a few loaded words, there.
There are even a few “bad elements” in D’s school, but a dedicated student will rise above that and choose friends wisely. I realize not every parent wants their child “exposed” to those “types” but they don’t seem to be hindering the driven friends D has at the local “average” high schools. National ranking and elitism isn’t the be-all and end-all.
If your D is smart and motivated, she will do well wherever she is. If she wants an opportunity that the large public doesn’t have but all other parts fit, she can create one. If you and you wife think the STEM school is her only path to success and really just came here to find ways to keep her there, I can’t help you. But if you work WITH her, maybe you’ll all work something out.
These are the challenging moments in parenting and I can sympathize. I would have her finish the year and reevaluate. If she feels the same way then, let her transfer. Maybe you can supplement the average high school with taking some advanced classes at the local community college, etc. If she is more invested in the process with a better mindset, I think she is more likely to succeed. My son is in a very rigorous private school and in retrospect, I wish I had him go to the public school (which is also outstanding)… the work load is immense and I don’t think it is healthy or worth it.
Depending on the school, having an Associates degree does nothing for them. They’ll still enter as a freshman. But you said Texas A&M (where my nephew whose pre-med goes), so check what the schools she may be interested in will do. Also, if she goes back to regular high school, just tell her to take the most rigorous course load the school offers. Then knock it out the park with good grades. It can be done. But 4 years miserable in high school is not worth it.
I went to a non nationally ranked high school. Did extremely well. Got into Yale. I’m also a parent with a take no prisoners attitude. But, I would never encourage or allow my kid to go to a school where they aren’t happy. I don’t mean the usual high school angst, but really really dislike it. You know you kid, nudge her the direction you and you wife feel is best. There are no guarantees in life.
You should look at: 1. is there a decent honors program 2. Are there AP classes in her areas of interest, and do the students do reasonably well on the AP tests 3. Are there EC’s such as robotic which she could participate in? 4. Is the school safe?
That is all you need. I don’t see any reason to worry about “slummy” or “nationally ranked”. If there is an honors program your child will not be in the same classes as the kids your wife is unhappy with. Keep in mind, there are plenty of schools which look poor on the usual metrics yet serve their honors students very well. Looking at the AP scores can give you some idea of how well the school is doing for the honor students. Looking at the number of National Merit scholars/commended can also give you an idea of how many top students the school has (assuming you are in an area where the PSAT is being taken).
We rejected the IB program, for my son, a clear STEM person. His friend left IB after one year. It is like putting a square into a round hole. Plus, my son could ride his bike to local school. As Mathmom wrote, the student can rise with APs and ECs, and have time to pursue interests.
On the other hand, my daughter, who went on to get an IB diploma, refused to even apply to our district’s excellent STEM program.
She was right. The STEM school was not right for her; IB, on the other hand, turned out to be a good choice for her.
You need to know that if your daughter doesn’t like the school, she’ll be miserable. I go to a magnet school too, and I love it there. But it’s not for everyone. And I know many kids who have “failed out” (the school ‘suggests’ removal from the program if a student is failing, but some parents don’t, and it’s disastrous. One boy had this situation, couldn’t handle the work load and the advanced level of the program, and ended up acting out, committing crimes, and ended up in military school). While I think that was a rare case, I think you should look to make sure your daughter enjoys school. STEM is big in my school as well, and only the students who hope to have a job in those fields (or want the credits badly enough) take them. If she doesn’t like the subject, doesn’t hope to major in them, or doesn’t care about the credits, she should be able to go to another school.
My daughter also is in a STEM high school program. It hasn’t been the perfect program but she’s happy with it. She’s made friends within the program and felt it is well worth the effort. What she dislikes is being in classes and working with students who don’t want to be in STEM. They are unhappy and they say they are only there because their parents want them to be there. They feel trapped. Many are good students but they have no interests in math, they dislike physics, they don’t want to learn computer science and they don’t want to study engineering.
It really is disheartening to hear my daughter talk about these students. Over four years, the program has lost 15-20% of the students with some kids sabotaging their GPA so they had to leave.
If your daughter truly does not feel the fit, well, don’t force the school on her. At this point, I’m unclear whether she likes science and math or dislikes science and math.( I think I read both on this thread.). Have your daughter finish the year at the STEM school. Re-evaluate the situation. Remain open to the regular public school.