Hope...very long...

Parents Corner
21

<p>You may consider (just consider) applying to Harvard and Princeton. Both schools have been aggressively recruiting lower-income students in the past few years and your story speaks to the extraordinary person you are and the extraordinary situations you continue to endure. If you're admitted, both Harvard and Princeton would guarantee you a full ride and your father would not have to contribute one cent towards your college education. For Harvard, this policy extends to all admitted students whose family annual income is less than USD 65,000 while for Princeton, it is for families with an income of less than USD 45,000.</p>

<p>So as you can see, you and your family would be covered.</p>

<p>The Harvard app is little more than the common application (one required essay, no extra short answers). I'm not entirely sure of the details of the Princeton application but if you can qualify for application fee waivers, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't try to get in to either of those schools :)</p>

<p>Also, several parents have recommended you fill out the FAFSA immediately. If you're applying to enter in the fall of 2007, DON'T fill out the FAFSA yet. The form you have to fill out for FAFSA will be available after January 1, 2007.</p>

22

<p>Look into Ohio University in Athens, OH. Not too far away. I believe they give good ACT based scholarships. Get some prep books and work like heck for a high score.</p>

23

<p>"You may consider (just consider) applying to Harvard and Princeton. Both schools have been aggressively recruiting lower-income students in the past few years and your story speaks to the extraordinary person you are and the extraordinary situations you continue to endure."</p>

<p>Evidence (other than their press release), please? Pell Grant data?</p>

24

<p>Check out Berea in Berea Ky. They accept only students who are financially disadvantaged. If I remember correctly, no tuition is charged. The books that come out rate them high, too. </p>

<p>One doesn't have to graduate from Harvard to be successful. While Harvard might have the highest name recognition in the U.S., I just read that fewer ceo's are from Harvard now than ever before. We all define success differently, and good luck becoming a self supporting adult. I'm happy to read about one young individual who wants to learn and earn rather than be supported by the gov't(taxpayers) Way to go!</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
Evidence (other than their press release), please? Pell Grant data?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'd be glad to. I don't have Pell Grant data (wouldn't know where to find it!) but here are some relevant excerpts from an article detailing characteristics of the matriculating class of 2010:</p>

<p>"The Class of 2010 has set new records for economic, gender, and ethnic diversity. Following a 24 percent increase last year in the number of students eligible for Harvard's new Financial Aid Initiative (HFAI) for low-income families, the HFAI program grew an additional 10 percent this year. "</p>

<p>"Harvard's financial aid program next year will be the most generous in its history with nearly $90 million in scholarships for undergraduates, a 6.2 percent increase over the past year and a 65 percent increase over the past six years. The new Financial Aid Initiative will add an additional $2.4 million annually. Two-thirds of Harvard undergraduates receive some form of financial aid, including scholarships, loans, and jobs. The average total student package will likely be more than $33,000, more than 70 percent of the total cost of attendance."</p>

<p>"Building on the success of HFAI, Harvard announced this week a significant enhancement to its financial aid program, which further expands opportunities for low-income families while offering significant relief to middle-income families as well. The income threshold for families who will not be required to make a parental contribution has been raised from $40,000 to $60,000. The threshold for families who will benefit from a reduced parental contribution has risen from $60,000 to $80,000. In addition, the annual $2,150 summer savings expectation can now be met with scholarship awards from sources outside of Harvard, such as National Merit and the Gates Millennium Scholarship Program. Finally, many colleges have recently made changes in their financial aid programs, some increasing need-based aid for Pell Grant recipients (students from low- and moderate-income families). Students with Pell Grants who receive these more generous financial aid awards elsewhere will have their awards honored by Harvard. All the features of the new financial aid program will be offered to current and future students."</p>

<p>"'We are excited about a new publication created by HFAI students, 'Shoestring Strategies for Life at Harvard,' that will help all students balance their daily expense budgets in Cambridge," said Melanie Brennand Mueller, co-director of HFAI. Added Sarah E. Beasley, HFAI co-director, "We are also happy to see the recent development of a student-to-student HFAI mentoring program as well as a monthly HFAI newsletter.'"</p>

<p>I know the excerpts are rather long but I think they do a good job of illustrating Harvard's commitment to educating students from a range of economic backgrounds.</p>

<p>As for Princeton, I believe it shows even greater commitment to helping lower-income students. Princeton's financial aid packages are notorious on the CC forums. The university only awards grants -- no student loans at all. And as far as I can tell from the experience of friends and members on CC (I myself did not apply to Princeton) they are very generous with their money.</p>

<p>All the excerpts about Harvard was obtained from this article: <a href="http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/03/30-admissions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/03/30-admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Hope that helps.</p>

26

<p>Potassium: Berea is a great suggestion. If you are female, you may want to apply to some of the womens' colleges, such as Smith or Mt Holyoke. Grinnell also has good financial aid.</p>

27

<p>"Let's face it, even if I had the highest grades in my little WV school, I'm still going to be at the bottom on my class in college. Educational standards aren't great around here. So even if a miracle did come I don't know if I would feel comfortable being surrounded by a bunch of kids whose allowance is more than my dad's monthly income, and who could outsmart me any given time."</p>

<p>Not necessarily. Grades are an indication of how hard you are willing to work and perhaps catch up.
1. Find a LAC school away from W.Virginia....like in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin etc. That way you won't be selling out to your dream.
2. Look for a school where pell grant recipients are at least around 20% of the student population or better. You can find that information by going to this link and searching for individual schools that have been perhaps mentioned on this thread. <a href="http://www.economicdiversity.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.economicdiversity.org/&lt;/a> For instance, Berea keeps being mentioned and it is at 80%. Eighty percent of the students don't have two cents to rub together and want a better life. I think it's your best bet. Here are some others out of your region:
Cornell College in Iowa at 27%; (if girl) Smith College in Mass at 27%; Lawrence University in Wi at 19% (a bit low but I love the overall social & financial situation there); Earlham in Indiana at 24%; Evergreen State in Washington at 37%. You will have a mixed group of students, rich, middling and poor and you will have an altered view of the world. Go for it.</p>

28

<p>My only objection to Berea is the lack of (socioeconomic) diversity. How are you going to find a rich spouse at Berea? In addition to Harvard, Princeton et al, you need a list of schools that meet 100% of need. You do write very well. The only part I would lose is, "I just got a computer two years ago, I just got a cell phone a month ago, I still have no MP3 player. I own no video games. I own no DVD player or DVDs." I guess that is poor in America, but you do have a computer and a cell phone.</p>

<p>Another thought: Although you can get some great advice right here on CC parents forum, it can get a bit scattered and of course you will get some useless advice mixed in with the good. Seems to me you would benefit greatly from a college consultant. Some of them do pro bono work don't they?</p>

29

<p>My advice is to follow the rest of the CC students.</p>

<p>Develop a Reach list. Your list should have four or five REaches from the list that Overseas started--your Reach Schools should be schools which are completely different from your hometown. Your Reach schools MUST be schools which give great merit aid. Then, they shouldalso be schools which you can get to by car. Evergreen is great but it is too far away for a family trying to scrape by on $23K. You will need your family's support for the incredible journey you want to take. Dont' sabatoge yourself by going too far away too soon.</p>

<p>There are some great REach Schools within these parameters. Smith is as far away from WVA as you could imagine--and you can drive there.</p>

<p>PM curmudgeon for help developing your Reach list. He doesn't read posts anymore but he would be a huge asset in developing your Reach list. His daughter just went through something similar--and she ended up with on offer from Yale--among many many others.</p>

<p>Secondly--and importantly, you need to develop your Safety choices.</p>

<p>Your safeties are the West Virginia schools. Even though you can't picture yourself there, you must believe me when I say that ALL universities will offer you the escape route out of the backwaters of your childhood. There will be fantastic programs at West Virginai universities. There will be fantastic professors who open your mind to the wonder of the world. You must try to let go of your stereotypes about these universites and find a way to fall in love with your safeties.</p>

<p>For starters, most universities offer Junior year abroad programs. If you come up with the airfare and a bit of pocket money--they will send you to Europe for a year--at the same cost as if you stayed in WVa. </p>

<p>Just look at the places you could go WITH WVA! <a href="http://www.wvu.edu/%7Eintlprog/study_abroad.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wvu.edu/%7Eintlprog/study_abroad.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You could go to Brazil one semester and China another semester--if you keepyour grades up and if you focus on accumulating the courses required for your major.</p>

<p>I had that burning to desire to travel when I was your age--and I have travelled and lived all over the world. I never had the dire financial situation you have--but my in-laws did. After his three years in the marines, my father-in-law went to night school at Syracuse University in the evenings. He loaded box cars during the day. He had to study in the car at night because he had three kids by the time he was 23. (His mother died when he was 14 and he was married at 18).</p>

<p>He graduated second in his class and eventually worked his way up to becoming a Fortune 500 CEO. </p>

<p>Your dreams are possible. It is up to you to keep a positive outlook. It is up to you to believe it can be done--one way or another.</p>

30

<p>My advice, after having worked with many other students in similar situations, is to start by getting smart on financial aid. I have seen too many kids in your situation who thought the smart thing to do was to apply to 15-20 schools because they had "free" applications. Then, when it came time to do the financial aid applications, they became overwhelmed and missed important deadlines. So, that is where I would suggest you start: learn what type of financial aid is available to you, what type of financial assistance your state might offer, and how to apply for it. A good place to start over the summer is with this booklet:</p>

<p><a href="http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/Stud_guide.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/Stud_guide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Make a list of everything you need to do to apply for financial aid, and another list of questions that may pop into your head. As you develop your college list, write down a schedule for what needs to be done when - meeting ALL of the deadlines is critical, and it will do you no good to be accepted but not be able to attend because you've missed an important financial aid deadline.</p>

<p>As soon as school is back in session, go into talk to your guidance counselor about any financial programs offered by your state, and any advice she/he may have on applying for financial aid as well. You WILL need help staying on top of things, so it is better to start now, even before you draw up a final college list.</p>

<p>I have some other suggestions for you, but will send them to you in a PM.</p>

31

<p>My family lives in West Virginia, and there is some truth to your concerns about the strength of your hs program. That is one reason why Georgetown/Harvard et all are not very good ideas for you. Let's walk before you run. Those schools will be there for graduate program options once you have put your academic house in order.</p>

<p>Ideally, you need a school that can give you plenty of individual attention, to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'd lean toward a small liberal arts college or a mid-sized state university for that. In the former pool are several schools that will likely be less expensive for you to attend, thanks to need-based aid, than WVU. </p>

<p>Berea, Earlham, Lawrence are some good LAC suggestions. Another one not too far from you is College of Wooster, who really focuses on the individual academic needs and interests of its students. Wittenberg is a solid choice, though bigger than most LACs. Allegheny is also pretty close (depending on the part of WV you live in, of course) and an excellent school.</p>

<p>Keep the uptrend alive and kick butt in ACT-ville. And keep in mind that a positive attitude and a strong work ethic should lead to success wherever you end up.</p>

32

<p>As far as helping to support your family goes, it might help if you explain to your dad that a college degree will allow you to make a much better income and that you'll be able to be of more help to the family then. If you are able to go to a good college out of state on scholarship, you will not be a burden on your family. Granted, you won't be helping out financially either. This is a terrible predicament in which to find yourself at your age. I admire your loyalty to your family, and I hope your dad will see the wisdom in encouraging you to pursue your dreams.</p>

33

<p>"All the excerpts about Harvard was obtained from this article: <a href="http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette...admissions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette...admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Hope that helps."</p>

<p>Sorry, but not at all. (That's why I suggested you not respond with the publicity hype.) A 10% increase to the 6.8% low-income students receiving Pell Grants at H. would result in a rate of 7.4-7.5%, making it the LEAST generous (by far) of all the Ivies. Now, of course, those decisions are made in the admissions office, rather than the financial aid office. </p>

<p>Now, don't get me wrong. I think it is GREAT that H. provides good financial aid to the low-income students it admits. There just aren't many of them. </p>

<p>"The university (Princeton) only awards grants -- no student loans at all."</p>

<p>I think that is wonderful too, but the majority of the beneficiaries are students coming from families with incomes of $90-$160k who are being enticed to the Vanderbilts of the world.</p>

<p>Look - virtually every Pell Grant recipient at Berkeley and UCLA (just as examples, roughly 35% of the student population) has stats which fall within the HYP "accepted range" - some high, some low, but within the range. When you take into account the boost that income/family education gives to SAT scores, virtually all of them are HYP eligible. For some reason, they aren't going to HYP. They may not have applied, HYP may have not recruited at their schools, they may not have wanted to go far from home, or their financial aid packages may have been inadequate, or they simply were rejected. The point being is that there are plenty of qualified low-income fish in the sea if these schools wanted them. They get the students they want. The rest is in the numbers.</p>

34

<p>
[quote]
Sorry, but not at all

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I still believe that even if the percentage of low-income students isn't as high as perhaps you, mini, would like, H and P are dedicated to financially supporting the low-income students whom they DO admit. Though, as you pointed out, a 10% increase does not make the # of Pell Grant recipients at H particularly impressive, I think the university's efforts of increasing its number of recipients should be seen in a positive way. I fail to see how any of your arguments show, in any case, that H and P are less dedicated than peer institutions at helping low-income students.</p>

<p>Re your statement that the "majority" of Princeton's financial aid beneficiaries have family "incomes of 90-160k" -- I hardly think this is the case. P only rewards financial aid packages to those students who actually apply for financial aid by submit the FAFSA and CSS Profile, both of which do a good job of making transparent the student's family's financial situation. Because I attended a private high school (not by choice but by necessity - I live overseas), I had many friends whose parents' incomes were in the six-figure range. My parents' incomes didn't even come close. From my personal experience, students whose families had incomes close to 90 or 100k did not even think about applying for financial aid. In fact, I believe less than 20% of the class even bothered to apply for aid, while for my family, it was always a given that we would. I can hardly imagine that the great majority of students coming from families with incomes of 90-160k would apply for finaid - I am sure that they'd realize that they would receive very little, if any, $$ at all.</p>

<p>Though "virtually every Pell Grant recipient" at UCB+UCLA may be perfectly eligible at HYP, being eligible (numbers-wise) for these schools is far from a guarantee of being accepted. I would hazard a guess that as many as 2/3 of applicants to HYP are capable of doing the work at these unis, but there isn't enough space in the freshman dorms to allow them to admit every eligible student, regardless of income level. Thus it's an unfair judgment to imply that HYP must not be admitting enough low-income students because of the fact that there are many intelligent, low-income students at other universities.</p>

<p>Anyway, I'm sure we can agree to disagree. I still believe the OP should just consider applying to H and P because they have shown through generous aid packages that they are completely dedicated to financially supporting their students, and (I believe) especially those coming from families with low incomes.</p>

35

<p>Thank for the replies everyone. I really appreciated all of them, and have looked into all the things you've mentioned. So thank you, with all my heart.</p>

<p>This was written on a day I was feeling particulary low and hopeless. I didn't mean to make it sound as though I pitied myself or desired pity from all of you. It's just that I go so long without letting myself thinking about bad things, that sometimes it just overwhelms me. That may explain why my post seemed so ungrateful or self-pitying. I know I have far much more than many people, and I know that feeling bad about my situation won't help me. That's why I'm working hard as I can now. </p>

<p>Also, to the person who pointed it out, I was hypocritical in my original post. The thing is, I recognized that. I thought I had no hope of becoming anything better than what I saw around me. But the more I became like the people I despise, the more afraid I became. I don't want to be a bad person. I don't want to be a loser. I want to make my father proud, and my mother too... if she's able to see what I do. I know I acted like a hypcrite for so long.</p>

<p>Oh, and to the people who suggested it, I can't get a job! lol I'm serious. Somehow if I get a job the government will cut off the $500 a month my dad gets to support me. I know I can't make more than that on my own. I've even had my dad take me to the Capital so I could talk to the officials and make sure. They said that they will cut my check off when I'm 18, only then will I be eligible to get a job. So...that sucks. I do stuff now like cut grass and baby-sit. If they (the government) found out I did that, I would probably get in trouble too. Oh well, I'll be 18 in October.</p>

<p>Right now I'm studying so I can bring up my ACT score, reading and making tons of notes for my AP Lit books, and doing various jobs for people. I also recently got my license and started to receive training so I could volunteer at an animal shelter. So even though it's summer, I'm trying not to be lazy.</p>

<p>Thank you so much again, everyone. I might have some more questions and I appreciate all of you who made me feel welcome here. Even those who thought they were harsh with me, it's cool. I'm so used to it and it's so needed sometimes.</p>

<p>NJres, what did you mean by "How are you going to find a rich spouse at Berea?" Was that just a general observation, or was it directed to me? If it was directed to me, I hope it was sarcasm. </p>

<p>Thank everyone, I could say thanks a thousand times.</p>

36

<p>"Re your statement that the "majority" of Princeton's financial aid beneficiaries have family "incomes of 90-160k" -- I hardly think this is the case. P only rewards financial aid packages to those students who actually apply for financial aid by submit the FAFSA and CSS Profile, both of which do a good job of making transparent the student's family's financial situation."</p>

<p>You can (or could) find it on their website. I didn't pull that number blindly out of the air. 50% of those receiving need-based aid had incomes in excess of $90k. This is BASED ON the FASFA and CSS Profiles, of course.</p>

<p>Note, however, that this is not specific to Princeton; it is common among an entire class of "prestige" colleges and universities, some of which have even smaller percentages of students receiving any aid, and even smaller number of Pell grantees. </p>

<p>"I can hardly imagine that the great majority of students coming from families with incomes of 90-160k would apply for finaid - I am sure that they'd realize that they would receive very little, if any, $$ at all."</p>

<p>You clearly haven't lived here very long.</p>

<p>"I fail to see how any of your arguments show, in any case, that H and P are less dedicated than peer institutions at helping low-income students."</p>

<p>Pretty simple to me: the truth is in the numbers. They could have more low-income students if they wanted. There are plenty of fish in the sea, several tens of thousands of them with GPAs/SAT scores, etc. that would qualify them for HYPetc. admissions if the schools wanted them. You're right - they don't recruit them, they don't apply, and when they do, they aren't accepted in significant numbers.</p>

<p>Hey, it's their money, and they can do with it as they like. You shouldn't assume that I think they should admit more low-income students, or support them. (If I ran their admissions office, I'm not sure I'd run it any differently.) In the total scheme of things, I frankly don't think they matter very much. (State universities are another matter.) I just don't like it when they sham.</p>