<p>Pizzagirl, re post no. 36</p>
<p>I didn’t take that the way you did. I think poster meant that here you had four kids who all had strengths and she was surprised dd was the lucky one chosen.</p>
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<p>I agree. I feel grateful I don’t live in that bubble either.</p>
<p>I grew up in a suburban bubble. It wasn’t a wealthy town, most people had similar income due to cost of property in town. We didn’t have mansions, but there was no wrong track of the town either. We didn’t have money to go to a night on the town in NYC, but we all had enough money to go to the Great Adventure if we wanted to. We didn’t go to FL for senior trips, but we all could go to the shore to hang out. I know people appreciate economic diversity, but I really liked the fact that we didn’t have to worry if one of our friends couldn’t afford to do something or we would get invited to something that we couldn’t afford to go. I didn’t realize we were have nots until I went off to college, and that didn’t feel good to me. Not sure if it necessary made me a better person or have more character.</p>
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<p>Do we live in the same place, Marsian? I happened to ask D last night about college talk at school. She says there really is none. Most kids want to go to one of the the two in-state flagships, which are both excellent schools, or a nearby one that has a pretty favorable OOS tution. There are a few every year who go to places commonly mentioned on cc (a few Ivys, a few LACs), but not so many that you wonder why some got in and some didn’t. </p>
<p>I’m also glad we don’t live in an Ivy bubble. It sounds horrible. All those kids fighting and clawing for every accolade, every point, every volunteer opportunity . . . sounds exhausting. And I can’t help but wonder if that mentality carries forward. Are those super selective schools still full cut-throat competition for every. single. thing?</p>
<p>My oldest attended a public school with 400 students in her class, but like oldfort I knew many of her classmates as well as their parents from school volunteering, sports, scouts, the neighborhood, etc. Pretty much knew where kids stood and were supportive of all. </p>
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<p>^This.</p>
<p>I agree, and also thank Thumper1 for both posts.</p>
<p>My kids did talk to friends about colleges: before any of them applied. If a friend really really wanted to go to a certain school, and it was not a heartfelt choice for one of my kids, then they did not apply, because they knew that colleges would tend to take only one applicant from our (less aspirational, less competitive) high school.</p>
<p>For some, the idea of going to the same college as high school friends or having few nearby colleges to choose from is horrible. </p>
<p>What is competitive is not getting volunteer opportunity, ECs, or 4.0. What is competitive is when your kid is applying for that first internship or job. That is cut throat.</p>
<p>Other than the kids of our close friends, I have no clue where any of his classmates are going and don’t bother asking. I don’t think they talk much about it at his school (it is a pretty good school too with 20 NMFs this year).</p>
<p>Last year, the top student from that graduating class went to our state flagship; no one batted an eye. The next 3 students had to settle for Yale, Harvard, and Yale respectively. This happens every year; several top students attend one of our two major state universities or neighboring state flagships.</p>
<p>^So which one you calling the state flagship, Haystack? It would seem either of the two big ones would qualify.</p>
<p>Here, I call U Iowa the flagship because there are some nits that insist that a state cannot ‘technically’ have two.</p>
<p>In my household, there are two, with ISU being the clear number 1 
Ironically, the U Iowa just did a marketing survey throughout Iowa and adjacent midwest states. Within Iowa, more Iowa residents consider Iowa State to be an ‘excellent’ academic insitution than U Iowa. That changes when you go to Illinois (Big Ten influence I think.)</p>
<p>The U Iowa does a terrible job marketing the school, hence the study. ISU has had a pretty successful marketing program in place now for several years…“Enjoy Your Adventure at Iowa State.”</p>
<p>At my house as well. Hard to put one above the other, although my sister (an ISU grad) has no trouble. U of I has the medical programs, the law school, and the writing program, but ISU has the technical programs, the vet school, the ag programs, the consumer sciences, and the better engineering school.</p>
<p>Of course, neither of my kids wanted to look at either behemouth for undergrad. D’11 says U of I is her first choice for grad school.</p>
<p>"Yes. But that doesn’t mean you have to pay attention and memorize it all, any more that you’d memorize who the quarterback or senior class president was. These names are just names to me – why would I retain that info? "</p>
<p>It’s not a matter of purposely memorizing these things. If you were a coach or a scout leader, perhaps that class president was on your team or in your troop. In a smaller town, you’re likely to personally know many of the kids, and care about what they accomplish. If you attend school board meetings, and the same name gets repeated for winning awards at every meeting, you’re likely to notice, and maybe even ask your child if he knows that student.</p>
<p>I certainly don’t know where all of the students in my D’s class have applied, by I know a few have been accepted at their top choices, and other who have been deferred or outright rejected. D has a deferral of her own, from one of her safeties.</p>
<p>I suspect there are a multitude of reasons a student who is perceived as the top choice might be deferred or even rejected. Maybe they’re overqualified, or not as qualified as they appear (maybe one-dimensional), or maybe they came across as arrogant in their essays. Maybe the “lesser” student came across as more sincere. If that top student becomes hateful to the student who got in, that suggests a certain attitude that might have leaked through in the application. I certainly wouldn’t want that student on my campus.</p>
<p>sylvan8798 --they are different in the test score results that they achieve. Like I said, no one was surprised when the Val didn’t get into the Ivy’s knowing her ACT score was only a 24 because while she is a great kid, she just isn’t Ivy material, there are several other kids in the top 10% however, that most likely will get into Ivy/Ivy like schools or those that have already.</p>
<p>jym626–that would be hilarious. I don’t think our school does that but I can see where the kids would think it was funny.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl–hard not to retain these names when these kids are in and out of our house almost daily or they have been on the same teams as our kids since 5th grade or the kids dated them at one point of time. From the conversations we have had with other families, etc. it isn’t gossip, more of WOW, did you hear X got into Y, that’s fantastic. Sure there is some gossip, you are never going to get away from that but for the most part it’s genuine way to go type talk from the kids and the parents. When a kid from last year’s class turned down Yale for the state flagship the conversations centered around “I’d do the same thing if I got a full ride plus stipend…”.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, maybe you have been less involved in the school. I remember the names because they are my friends’ kids or my kids’ friends. Some of them I have know since they were 3 years old. And just in case I forget - for some things I have their names in old programs - so I can go back and say where the number three kid in the class ended up going. Our school is much like Marsian’s except the kids aiming at top colleges do talk about colleges, go visit them together, read each other’s essays etc. It never felt overly competitive to me, but my kids are pretty much impervious to pressure of that sort.</p>
<p>It’s not all about stats.</p>
<p>No one said that yet.</p>
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<p>pizzagirl–if you read my entire opening post, you’ll see that I mentioned to “Amy” (not her real name, by the way) that no one on the outside knows what admission officials have found most compelling about a candidate. </p>
<p>But the fact is, the “How did HE get in?” (or SHE, of course) is asked countless times by many people in many types of communities, and under wide-ranging circumstances. Thus it makes sense to discuss such concerns. As you can see from other posts on this thread, some students have been “victims” of such questioning when, in fact, they have many impressive traits and accomplishments that others in their orbit may not know about. I think it’s important for all of us to recognize this. It’s also important to recognize that colleges have varying institutional priorities that are usually not public knowledge and may not be the obvious ones (e.g., legacies, VIP’s, athletes) and yet can have a great effect on admission outcomes. </p>
<p>Note also that the “How did S/HE Get in?” question is not always asked angrily (or vindictively). Sometimes it comes from parents or younger students who have been led to believe that acceptance at a particular “dream” college is only for those who walk on water. Then they learn that a “normal” kid has been accepted and wonder if admission is more possible than they’d assumed. I hear that sort of reasoning all the time. Its subtext is, “Maybe there’s hope for me (or my child), too,” rather than, “That kid didn’t deserve it.”</p>
<p>Or, to put it in the words of that great Irish philosopher, Bono, "In America, you look up at the house on the hill, the mansion on the hill and say, ‘One day I’m-- that-- that could be me.’ In Ireland, they look up at the mansion on the hill and go, 'One day I’m gonna get that ■■■■■■■.'</p>
<p>But I do think there’s a distinction between taking an interest in your kids’ friends and Monday morning ad-comming. I am not an unfeeling, uncaring dolt (well, other than in my professional life), and I coached the same group of kids in rec sports for a loooooonnnnnggg time. As such, I take great pride now that, in the words of their HS coach, “these kids are killing it with admissions offices.” However, I have no idea what kind of grades or test scores most of them have – other than the few whose mothers blab about it constantly – and no desire to know. Accordingly, I have no basis on which to even ask the question, “How did HE get in?”</p>
<p>"other than the few whose mothers blab about it constantly "</p>
<p>Anyone say put him/her in coach. His/her report card has all As. :p</p>
<p>The fact that the question is posed countless times does not make it less gossipy, or any less cruel and vindictive in most cases. Some might think it is worth posing ; others think the question deserves scorn and derision.</p>
<p>Ask seniors how they feel about being cornered with the "Where did you get in " question over and over again! Well, that is how they really feel about it.</p>
<p>Xiggi–As I noted in my post, above, the question is not always asked in a cruel or gossipy way. Sure, it certainly CAN be. But, often, students and parents are just trying to make sense of what can seem like a random, mysterious, or even capricious process. Younger students (or their parents), who are trying to compose a reasonable college list with a sensible balance of “Reach,” “Realistic” and “Safe” schools, are commonly befuddled by the admission outcomes in their community that lead them to question the balance of their own lists.</p>