<p>Hi parents. I'm a senior who's receiving college decisions. When I was admitted to Olin College of Engineering, both me and my dad were really happy and excited. I was almost 100% sure I was going to attend until I received my acceptance package from Caltech. I asked my dad if we could visit Caltech (we've already seen Olin at CW) and he refused. I've tried again and again but he's not giving in. What should I do to make him let me visit Caltech?</p>
<p>Where do you live? Who will be footing the bill for a college visit? Are there any other schools you are consdering? Who will be footing the bill and about how much will that bill be if you don't choose Olin (which will be completely free, right?) Lots of things might be playing into your dad's point of view. Tell us more and we might help.</p>
<p>And... a hearty congratulations to you on your acceptances.</p>
<p>Mathwiz, congratulations! What are his objections? Does he give reasons or does he just say "no"??? Some indication of the nature of his objections would make it easier to help with suggestions...</p>
<p>If money/distance is an issue, could you approach him about making several college visits in one trip, especially if there are other siblings who might have an interest in future years?</p>
<p>I live on the East Coast. Yes I do realize it's a fairly long way from here to CA, but isn't it worth it considering the fact that it's my EDUCATION! I've already spent close to $1000 just applying and sending scores and all that (which he has always been willing to pay). Yes, Olin will be free (aside from about $16,000 room and board) whereas Caltech will cost around $40,000 a year. But I can't see how money would be an issue, since when I asked him he told me that I didn't need to apply for FA anywhere. (I think he has a college fund set up). But, for now, it's just a VISIT! If he asks me to consider money when choosing a college, that's fine with me, but for now I'm just trying to actually see Caltech and what it's like.</p>
<p>I have no idea what his objections are. Whenever I ask him about it, he immediately dismisses the topic. If I insist, he starts yelling at me. If money is so important, heck, I'll pay for it. And the several colleges visit thing won't work, since the only other college I've applied to in the area is Harvey Mudd, which I'm no longer considering. I've also applied to Stanford and UCB, but those are on the other side of CA. (And I don't know if I'm accepted yet either).</p>
<p>Mathwiz, I am speculating wildly, but, it sounds to me that he may be getting cold feet about having his son so far from home, and he is dreading missing you terribly. All parents miss their sons and daughters and the anticipation of the emotional wrenching to come is particularly strong in the months leading up to the inevitable fall departure. I would guess he is thinking about that great distance and is unable to come to terms with it just yet - as an application, or a fee for test scores, sent back in the fall when August 2007 is some distant time to be reckoned with later, it's a theoretical matter; an acceptance in hand with irrevocable departure in < than six months makes it real - often far more real than we parents are emotionally ready to absorb. </p>
<p>Since money doesn't appear to be the overwhelming issue, I'd wait a day or two, see if he can be approached again. Are there any other adult family members you can recruit to help talk to him?</p>
<p>When you do bring this up with him again, ask him directly if he wants you to go to Olin over CalTech because of money. And if he says yes, ask him if that's why he doesn't want you to go visit CalTech.</p>
<p>If I had a son in your situation, Yes, I'd prefer Olin over CalTech -- hell, why spend $40,000 per year if I can get away with $16,000? But I think I'd say so to my child. </p>
<p>Congratulations, BTW -- an admission to either of those schools is an honor.</p>
<p>Okay, some thoughts. [ul][<em>]Even though he has a college fund set up, the idea that a parent would need to spend $64,000 of their hard-earned assets (and future retirement) instead of $160-200,000 can really turn any parent's head. Possibly hard for an 18-year-old to understand, but true and rational. He may just feel that when a top school is available at that price, there is no point in paying for a different top school at 3-4x the price. Had you only been accepted to schools of a lower caliber, he may have been happy to foot the higher bill. I'm not sure that he is thinking this way, but it is possible.[</em>]Stanford and UCB are not on "the other side" of California. They are in Northern California and CT is in Southern California. I live East and I used to live West and go to California all of the time. If you get accepted to Stanford and/or Cal, it absolutely makes sense to make one triangle trip. East-SF Bay area-LA or East-LA-SF Bay area and return. So, best to wait and see what size those other envelopes are. [<em>]I don't know what kind of relationship you and your dad have. Even if it's a good one, sometimes parents and kids don't talk</em> much or find certain subjects difficult. So... I think you should take a little time to think about your approach. Possibilities: start a talk via IM, to be followed up in person. Or write an email note and do the sasme. You'll be able to get your ideas on the table. Or, ask him to go to lunch or dinner to talk "about college." Make it a moderately wide-ranging discussion - your thoughts on your major; how your family will handle allowance/spending money/vacation visits home. Once started, ask for his views on how you should choose between schools and how much cost is a factor. See where he now stands on that. If you find out he is open on price and hasn't decided it's Olin all the way, then you can ask again - in a context where you are working together as a team to plan your college experience - about whether visits should be part of the decision. If you find out cost is now a major factor with Olin as a possible, you will have to deal with that. Or, just tell him you'd like to sit down with him at home to talk about some things that are on your mind about college and follow a similar plan.[]Would your GC be a helpful intermediary? Does s/he have views on the pros and cons of your current two acceptances? Maybe an appointment with the GC and your dad (and mom, if she is part of this) after all of your acceptances are in would be helpful.[/ul]</p>
<p>Mathwiz
I am so sorry that you are facing this dilemna when I know how pleased you are with Caltech admission. You've worked hard all thru HS and with your applications.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster if your FA is second guessing your going across country. I too fly back & forth a lot. Often it costs around $200, even if I book a few weeks in advance. Holidays are a different story.</p>
<p>Perhaps your FA is concerned with finances? Every Caltech student I know has research or job opportunities thru the year and especially during summers. S has earned substantial amounts, covering more than room & board.</p>
<p>If your FA does not have a feel for Caltech , perhaps he could fly with you and spend time on the campus. Very few people near where I lived had heard of Caltech. People assumed it was part of the UC system. Let your FA know that Caltech is #1 in Value (Kipplinger) and has highest #inventions per alumni. Show your FA the career paths taken by alumni. Honestly, when we visited C during April several years ago, I could just look/listen to the current students and visualize my S there.</p>
<p>I have near visited Olin nor known anyone there, so can offer no comparison. My advice is geared to including your FA in this decision.</p>
<p>Caltech and Olin are pretty much the same in terms of engineering. However, Caltech is much more than that. It also houses some of the best depts in biology, chemistry, physics and math in this country. So the two are very different schools unless you and your Dad are absolutely sure that you want to be an engineering major. </p>
<p>Perhaps, you can approach your father in the sense that you may still wish to pursue a course in pure science rather than engineering. You will have that option at Caltech. This is the best time of the year to go visit too.</p>
<p>And while Caltech is small it's nowhere near as small as Olin. I also think there's something to be said for the broadening experiences of spending a few years in a different region of the country from where you grew up. But that said even with cheap flights you do have to figure in travel costs and the emotional toll on your Dad of being so far away. Caltech has a definite quirky vibe, you can get a bit of a sense of what it's like, in the house traditions thread in the Caltech forum, but I do think it's worth visiting if you can. My dh, who was a grad student at Caltech, thought the undergrads were quite strange and wasn't at all sure he wanted our son applying.</p>
<p>update: I'm not visiting, and not because I didn't want to.... :(</p>
<p>Mathwiz,</p>
<p>I am sorry to hear this. But if you really want to visit and attend Caltech, I'll suggest that you forward this entire thread to the Director of Freshman Admission of Caltech and ask his help. I think among things he could do include invite and pay for you and your father's visit. I don't want to speculate what Caltech could do to help you out. But it is a caring institition and it is no unusual for them to help student solve creatively such problem.</p>
<p>Now I get the other post.
" When you do bring this up with him again, ask him directly if he wants you to go to Olin over CalTech because of money. And if he says yes, ask him if that's why he doesn't want you to go visit CalTech."
Did you ever ask him these direct questions?</p>
<p>mathwiz, inverse's post is a really good idea. Caltech is know for the lavish amounts it spends on each students education [ compared to other colleges] so perhaps they would help you visit as well.</p>
<p>Is it really necessary to visit in order to decide? </p>
<p>Is he saying you can't go there, ever, by denying you the visit?</p>
<p>Because you might be willing to just accept Caltech's offer, sight-unseen.</p>
<p>I'm more than confused b/c I hear from a different thread that he's criticising you for not being as good as your friends (did they get in to better schools, c'mon, how "bad" could you be??). Also he wasn't raised in this country so it all may be hard, unfamiliar and large to him. IT's hard for immigrant generation parents. They leave their homes and then only have their own kids to hold onto in the new country. WHen those kids copy and take the next leap, some
cling even harder, espec if they miss their own families back in the old country. </p>
<p>We just went through something like this but it was clear the financials were the issue. Two excellent schools in a specialty field took our S, one on the east coast where we live and the other in southern California, where we can't even imagine.
Cal costs much more but we're not sure there'd be enough outcome from the east coast opportunity. In other words, in Cal we perceive: better product, higher pricetag; but on the east coast: no product, lower pricetag...and by product I mean, ability to work in the field he's training in. </p>
<p>We WOULD visit both but can't visit either. So last night, we 3 just decided together to choose the California opportunity because it's the superior program outcome. (I get that you feel Olin and Caltech equate, so that part's not the same). We 3 did so much 'net research we're vaguely comfortable with this decision, even without the visit.
And there is enough to discourage, as well as encourage us, re: the east coast situation. </p>
<p>So is the college choice decided in your home yet? You do have this card to play, given that he's not concerned about finaid: "Dad, I'm presenting you this research and from everything I see, Caltech will give me a brighter future in this country. I would like to just take their offer and would be forever grateful to you if you'd give me your blessing."</p>
<p>(PS, I haven't the foggiest idea of the diffs between Olin and Caltech; I'm just dealing with the emotions, immigration and other family patterns from your posts. I'm no engineer!! But--if you build a bridge, I'll gladly drive on it.</p>
<p>Does he know that Olin does not yet have ABET accreditation? (It will, of course, but it doesn't yet.)</p>
<p>Okay, I'm thinking along the same lines as jmmom. Perhaps your dad assumed that of course you would choose the less expensive school which is also close to home. He may be feeling hurt that you want to go to school so far away when you have an excellent choice nearer to home. Maybe that is what he is hinting at when he says you are not a good kid. He may be unable to tell you how much it bothers him directly. Just a guess. </p>
<p>Sorry it is not a happier time for you. </p>
<p>Congratulations, by the way, on your great acceptances.</p>
<p>Mathwiz
What is happening with your decision? I fyou want more info on Caltech, PM me</p>
<p>If you ever do get a chance to visit California keep in mind that LA to San Jose/San Francisco (close to Berkeley and Stanford) is less than a 1 hour flight or about a 5 hour drive. </p>
<p>Also, check out some sample airfares on Southwest and JetBlue to help quantify what the trip would actually cost. You might be able to fly into LA, rent a car with an arrangement for a free dropoff in the bay area, see CalTech, drive up to the bay area, then fly back from there (SanFran, San Jose, or Oakland depending on connections). I agree that the cost of a visit to a part of the country you're not familiar with is worthwhile if you're seriously considering spending the next 4-5 years (at least) there.</p>
<p>btw - California's a great place to live in my humble opinion so I think you'll like it.</p>
<p>Let me get this straight. You got into 2 of the top 6 engineering schools in the US--and you are complaining because your father wants you to go to the one that costs $130,000 less.</p>
<p>Some kids are just way too spoiled.</p>
<p>Here's the deal I would make with you:
You can go to either school--but if you go to Caltech, then when you graduate, you need to pay me back the $130,000--with interest. This is so you would understand what it takes to save up that much money. (Then I'd consider whether to use it for your grad school, to help you buy a house, or for my retirement--which one depending upon your success in college and on-the-job).</p>
<p>It's makes no sense to pay that much extra when the schools are so close in rank to each other--and when the college experience you are likely to get will be so similar (both small schools in fairly urban areas). </p>
<p>Be thankful for your acceptance to Olin--and for your father's good judgement in telling you to go there instead of to Caltech. </p>
<p>P.S. And please don't write back telling me how cheap I am--I'm already paying $130,000+ for my own son to go to college.</p>