How do you keep your kid from alienating everyone he know because his mom is a CC addict?

Parent Cafe
41

It does make me really sad to see kids on a bad college path. I WAS one of those kids who made an uninformed choice and really suffered for it (couldn’t afford it, parents couldn’t afford it). I’m also a fixer by nature, and a researcher by nature, so given those three aspects of my personality it’s REALLY hard for me to stand by and not help a kid that obviously needs helping.

But-you can’t help them if they don’t believe you, and a lot of them will not believe you because the truth is really painful. The truth is not a glossy brochure or a dream spot at an ivy, and it’s a lot nicer for people to stay in that dream until they’re kicked out forcibly by debt or a rejection.

They say that smart people learn from their mistakes, and really smart people learn from other people’s mistakes. I’m smart, my kids are doing their best to be really smart.

In my circle I’m helping my closest friend (who has a kid the same age as mine-junior in hs), and both of my daughters are passing along what I’m teaching them about the process to their boyfriends. There are some aspects of college admission that I know nothing about like athletic admissions and scholarships in that area, but I can at least point them to salient areas where they can do research.

What makes me extra careful, though, is that there is so much conflicting advice out there (and on here). So I’m never really sure that I’m doing the right thing, so I’m very cautious about how I phrase stuff with the girls. I will say things like “it appears to benefit you if you do this, and this is why”, and show them the information. Sometimes they’ll have different conclusions.

There certainly appear to be more optimal methods of applying to, being successful at, and graduating from college. But that isn’t super important for a lot of people, I’ve discovered. They have other metrics of what’s important to them.

42

And I never offer advice unless someone specifically asks. And then if they start to argue about my POV (which happens), I change the subject, or excuse myself.

I never just volunteer information. And I’m very careful to listen to how any info I offer is received. As noted…some folks just don’t want to hear news that is less than what they want to believe. My favorite was a person who told me that they KNEW their daughter would get merit aid from Wellesley. I just smiled…and nodded.

43

I wouldn’t get too cocky about your admissions acuity until acceptance letters actually roll in. Some of those “clueless” students/families will fair better than you.

44

I suspect your son isn’t hearing you because you’re reinforcing his opinion that he’s right and all these other families are wrong. Unless you know their personal finances or have seen the other students’ resumes and applications, how would you know that? Why aren’t you asking him how much the girl who wants to go to NYU needs to make the college affordable? Or ask him what websites the families have visited to gather information, how often they visit them, and how long they spend on each one? Have you asked him what the boy who wants to go to “elite” colleges means by “elite,” or what the family’s gross income is? Or why he thinks it’s inaccurate to say that colleges let families out of ED agreements if they can’t pay?

I think your son is putting too much time and effort into talking about the neighbors’ personal business. I can’t imagine why you’re allowing it or why you’re not challenging his assumptions. If you have a problem with the information the guidance counselor is dispensing, you should be talking to the administration to get it cleared up. It’s not your son’s job to correct other people. If you want him to quit doing it, stop discussing their private business with him.

45

@sblumenthal No worries on my son’s admission and package. Already taken care of.

@austinmshauri Ouch. I hear what you are saying and understand.

In any case, yes we have discussed it and NO none of us is going near anyone else’s college issues anymore. Not my circus, not my monkey.

46

Not much advice from me. I’m like that, feel like I need to help people. That’s why I’m here.

My D does share some of the things I have learned here, like banking subsidized loans for grad school. Thanks, @Madison85

47

Many high school students will "share’ what they have heard or what they want to believe. Look at all the chancing done by high school students here on CC. And then there is the totally useless “chance me, I’ll chance you back” threads here.

48

As much as I want to pretend I never started this thread, thank you @TomSrOfBoston for frequently cracking me up in the middle of feeling like the worst mother in the universe. Your BU story always cracks me up and I do admit that “chance me, I’ll chance you back” are to me the biggest headscratchers on this site. :slight_smile:

49

One other thing to think about when offering unsolicited advice is the information may not be correct for a given student’s situation.

For instance, many older relatives from far better financial backgrounds whose kids weren’t eligible for FA/scholarships based partially on need assumed I should confine myself to apply to the local public colleges and forget applying to respectable/elite private colleges altogether.

In my case and those in similar financial situations, not applying to all private colleges…regardless of the fact some including the LAC I graduated from offered near/full ride FA/scholarship packages…would have been a huge mistake.

Especially after finding the near full ride I received to the private LAC I graduated from meant it cost less to attend than if I attended my local public college even if airfare was taken into account because the system had a shortage of FA funds due to a budget crunch back then.

Even though I maintain a level of polite civility with such relatives now, one consequence of the unsolicited bad college advice is I tend to be wary of the reliability/veracity of their unsolicited advice as it was apparent they didn’t take due care to evaluate whether their college advice applied to my individual situation.

50

I agree that they’re not qualified to chance each other, but it’s easier to be objective about a stranger’s qualifications than your own.

51

I agree with @cobrat entirely. At the end of the day, your son is not an expert, either by virtue of what you or he learn here or otherwise. Let’s be honest: even people here who tend to focus on this stuff, adults, don’t always get it right. I don’t always get it right. I’m going through this for the third time now and I’m still learning things … through my own experience and, yes, from surfing this forum.

And let’s pause on that for a moment. This forum is full of people, and I’m arguably one of them, who post in a very persuasive, almost authoritative, style. There are four or five posters, in particular, who have very strong views about a few of the typical elements that come up (financial aid, taking out loans, degree tracks, job prospects, LAC vs. research universities, etc. etc.). They tend to know what they’re talking about, but I’ve been to a few rodeos myself, and I steadfastly disagree with them on a few basic points. And then there was the disaster that was my middle kid’s private college counselor - I don’t know where to start with that woman so I won’t try. And then there’s the Crossfire Premier Soccer academy contract College Recruiting Service. I know more than the guy who runs that company from having been through the recruiting process, and for Pete’s sake it’s what he does for a living. I have heard him convey to an entire team of players patently incorrect information about particular schools that I know well.

So there’s that reality … if adults with experience don’t all agree, how is your high school son going to be the guy with the right answer all the time? He’s not.

So, when it comes to a given classmate, your son’s take on something may be flatly wrong, or at least misleading. Your son may not have all the facts about a classmate, the classmate may not be aware of which of their own facts are pertinent or not … all of these kinds of things add up to the reality that it takes an experienced hand, and even they don’t always get it right.

Try that approach: “You might be wrong.”

Also, don’t feel badly about this. As I said in my first post, it’s no big deal.

PS: the one person I see post here who I feel is a real expert, who has thorough knowledge, is very objective and seems to be as free from bias as a person can be, is @Hanna . I would take her take on things college-related to the bank. She knows her stuff. And, no, I’m not one of her clients, nor do I have any financial interest in her services. She’s just always so spot on, and she’s smart. There are others here who are really dialed in to this or that, but Hanna in my view is the real subject matter expert.

52

Students and parents you think are uninformed will still be successful in the process. All of us here overthink it, but at the end of the day we’re mostly talking about GPA, SAT, ECs, and essays — this isn’t rocket science. How you define success is not going to align with how others view success. To many, a full ride to a local directional is the bee’s knees; to others, you couldn’t pay them to send their kid to that caliber of college.

53

Not to mention the academic strength and rigor of a given state system…whether flagship or a local directional…or any college can vary greatly not only by state/system…but also time period.

For instance, the local public college system in my hometown/area was abysmal for anyone who wasn’t a remedial student or graduating near/at the bottom of an average NYC public HS graduating class when I was in HS during the early-mid '90s.

However, up until 1969, that very same system was considered academically elite and competition to get in…especially for local students who were in-city/state was actually much more competitive than some local private colleges like NYU. A reason why one story about General Colin Powell’s decision to turn down NYU for CCNY in 1959 was anachronistic…back then CCNY/CUNY was considered more academically elite by most tri-state applicants of his generation*.

They are also much stronger now as they’ve substantially raised admission and academic standards/policies across the board in the last decade and half.

  • Couple of older neighbors who concurred are NYU alums who attended in the early-late '50s after honestly admitting they did so because they were CCNY/CUNY rejects.
54

@cobrat NYU reaped the benefits of CUNY deciding to go open admissions. While this is a different topic I believe that if public college tuition ever becomes free there will be a huge benefit to mid and maybe even lower tier private college.

55

Incidentally, when CUNY/CCNY was regarded as academically elite up until 1969, tuition for local students WAS FREE. In fact, that was one of the reasons why competition for admission was so keen back then that some neighbors compared it to the Ivy/Elite U/FSA* or bust mentality among their kids who were my age or younger.

Having free tuition is not necessarily synonymous with being non-elite.

In fact, CCNY/CUNY’s 1969 decision to go open admissions was ONE KEY FACTOR which eventually killed free tuition for local students in 1975.

  • Federal Service Academy...which BTW also elite and free tuitionwise....though it does come with a 4-5 year service obligation afterwards if one stays to commence one's 3rd year there.
56

One thing I have noticed about boys in general is that they don’t like to be told what to do by other boys - or by their parents for that matter! To avoid ticking off his friends, your son might be wise to just give humble advice if asked.

By the way, the daughter of an old friend just graduated from Harvard, and she got almost a free ride with fin aid. And the family is middle class, not destitute. She has a partial hispanic background and is from a lesser represented state. Another friend, middle class white girl, got half tuition at Dartmouth, for engineering, and their EFC was $80K per year with no other kids in college. You don’t necessarily know about the valedictorian who went to Yale from your son’s school. I only know these details about my friends because they told me. I didn’t even ask, but was totally jealous when I found out!

I have never told my kids that I have posted on this CC site. Too embarrassing. Don’t want them to see what I’ve written. I have shared with them a few tidbits I learned here though.

@delilahxc Just curious. It is only August. How does your son already have his college admission and package sewn up? My sons were both still deciding which college to attend at the end of April senior year! Is he a recruited athlete?

57

Well, it could be worse (spoken from a kid who is the CC addict :open_mouth: ).
As a HS senior, I’m obviously not an expert on anything college, but from reading a bunch here, I do think I know enough to clear up some of the more common misconceptions.
Frankly, I feel like I am a bad friend if I let my friends continue to believe wrong things. If they say something blatantly misguided (say for example, "Dude I’m premed so I have to get into the best school otherwise I won’t get into medical school), I just NEED to say something. I don’t think it’s rude or weird, but then again if I did I wouldn’t be doing it.
I suppose that since I have figured out my app process early, and am generally “together” about it all, my friends realize I am well-meaning and have some basis for what I say.
That being said, I have to sometimes just ignore what people I’m not close to say. And I do agree that other people’s situations will vary, but for the general stuff, I will say something. (And it’s pretty rare for that type of thing to be wrong.) It’s your prerogative to ignore, granted, unsolicited advice, but my personal take is to listen to everything and consider it all. And sometimes, people get offended by my advice or think I’m being arrogant, which I feel bad about, but I am speaking honestly. I just say sorry and move on. It’s not the end of the world.
But, if you stick to advising friends when they bring up topics, then it’s generally fine. A good friend should have the grace to realize you are well-meaning, and more importantly, that you wouldn’t speak up for no reason.

58

@MOMANDBOYSTWO - while he had a much larger list initially, my husband’s layoff a few months ago shrank it considerably. He applied to an OOS school with rolling admissions that opened quite early but that more importantly offers tiered automatic merit based scholarship making this his most affordable option. While meant initially to be our financial safety, it is a solid university for his career goals (science education.) There is the possibility of him also being a recruited athlete but he is somewhat ambivalent on that. He is in contact with the athletic department but if that works out it’s more of a bonus than the sell.

While circumstances may change, it is quite comforting to know that you have an affordable option on the table very early in the year.

59

"PS: the one person I see post here who I feel is a real expert, who has thorough knowledge, is very objective and seems to be as free from bias as a person can be, is @Hanna . I would take her take on things college-related to the bank. She knows her stuff. And, no, I’m not one of her clients, nor do I have any financial interest in her services. "

Completely agree with you.

60

@TomSrOfBoston

Yes, totally useless. Even the “alien abduction” stories in the National Enquirer have entertainment value.