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<p>this is the same logic that says girls should just live in the kitchen and not have a career</p>
<p>“I’m not saying that my position has any sort of transcendent truth to it – it’s simply the way I am. I just wouldn’t be comfortable in a relationship where the guy didn’t initiate. I’m very much a social progressive, so I have no problem with people who prefer things the other way around. In fact, I’m pretty sure that my dating life would be better off if I wasn’t so timid about these things, but I am and I don’t forsee that aspect of my personality changing.”</p>
<p>no worries, i’m totally the same way, lol.</p>
<p>i am, however, very willing to ‘go dutch’ when it comes to paying for things. & very liberal & blah, blah. & if i had the courage to ask out a guy i liked, i totally would. i’m just shy :]</p>
<p>^ Let’s start a club. We can call it Cowboy Up Inc, or Just Ask, Yo Ltd. :D</p>
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<p>I know plenty of women who embrace that logic.</p>
<p>That’s not a good thing, brother.</p>
<p>Tell them that. I won’t tell them that they don’t have the right to choose how they want to live.</p>
<p>I used to do the whole initiation process. But then you know what? It gets tiring after a while. I can totally understand why some guys get frustrated. Rejection and the fear of having to lower or change one’s standards can be knock to the self-esteem.</p>
<p>Also, I’ll admit that I’m pretty old fashion. I love it when a guy woes a girl. I was lucky enough to get a guy like that (the flowers, the romantic dates, etc). It seems like chivalry and the old courting process is a dying trend, and women are becoming the suitors chasing the guys down (and trust me when I say that I’ve seen this happen!) It kills the romance, imo. </p>
<p>And no, I’m not “anti-feminist.”</p>
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<p>I concur. Far too often I did the whole flirting thing. That didn’t work. And when I started to ask the guys out, I found that I would usually go for guys that didn’t meet my standards (i.e. education, background requirements, etc), and would go for guys that I KNEW would say yes. And then a guy asked me out. Turned out he was WAY more interested in me than any of those losers that were just “desperate” to go out with any girl, and not necessarily interested in ME.</p>
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Interesting offensive. Making me seem to be the unenlightened one so that people will ignore that you made your controversial statements earlier. Very common tactic in Internet arguments but also very transparent.</p>
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<p>It’s not a move – I wholeheartedly think that men should initiate, and in cases where there are families with children I openly support traditional gender roles. I’m not hiding anything – my position is very clearly laid out. </p>
<p>What you have not done is explain why knowing women who want to live as housewives is somehow problematic. Being a mother is to be reviled, now? If a woman wants a career, fine. If she wants to live in the kitchen, fine. They, like men, can do what they want.</p>
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<p>We’re on the same page, sista!</p>
<p>I’m extremely introverted, with somewhat of a speech impedement (sp?). I’m also somewhat insecure. I’m currently with a guy who is more socially outgoing, articulate, and extremely confident. An insecure introvert woman with a somewhat extroverted and confident man oftentimes works. It has NOTHING to do with assbackwards beliefs that men are superior and dominate and women are inferior and submissive but rather security and compatibility. But unfortunatly, in the west, being introverted and quiet woman=submissive and unfeministic (if that’s a word!) .</p>
<p>I honestly could not be with a guy who isn’t assertive. Assertiveness to me equals decisiveness and confidence. I once went out with a very unassertive guy. I ended up having to do all the talking and he didn’t seem interested in me whatsoever. I asked questions about him, but he wouldn’t ask questions about me. I asked him out and did what it seemed like everything, and he was very wishwashy. On the flip side, when I went out with an assertive man (now my bf), he was extremely confident, contributed to the conversation and asked questions about me. And that was sexy to me. ;)</p>
<p>^
“Rodents of unusual size? I don’t think they exist.”<br>
RAWR!</p>
<p><em>simles</em>
:D</p>
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<p>I’m amazed at how hard it is for people to come to agreement about simple things like this.</p>
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<p>I know, seriously. No one is talking about enforcing any system on others. What I think should be the case and what I think should be allowed are two completely different subjects here. We allow hate speech, that doesn’t mean we want it to exist.</p>
<p>baelor-no one is disagreeing with u, so why are u trying to start an argument?</p>
<p>"I’m extremely introverted, with somewhat of a speech impedement (sp?). I’m also somewhat insecure. I’m currently with a guy who is more socially outgoing, articulate, and extremely confident. An insecure introvert woman with a somewhat extroverted and confident man oftentimes works. It has NOTHING to do with assbackwards beliefs that men are superior and dominate and women are inferior and submissive but rather security and compatibility. But unfortunatly, in the west, being introverted and quiet woman=submissive and unfeministic (if that’s a word!) .</p>
<p>I honestly could not be with a guy who isn’t assertive. Assertiveness to me equals decisiveness and confidence. I once went out with a very unassertive guy. I ended up having to do all the talking and he didn’t seem interested in me whatsoever. I asked questions about him, but he wouldn’t ask questions about me. I asked him out and did what it seemed like everything, and he was very wishwashy. On the flip side, when I went out with an assertive man (now my bf), he was extremely confident, contributed to the conversation and asked questions about me. And that was sexy to me."</p>
<p>GAH, i swear, the 3 of us are like internet soul-sisters when it comes to relationships ;)</p>
<p>My friend’s opinion:</p>
<p>“If you want the other person to make all the moves, fine. But you then forfeit your right to complain when you never end up with the people you’d like.”</p>
<p>^ <em>disgruntled emoticon here</em></p>
<p>I think this is analogous to the “if you don’t vote, you can’t complain” argument. Both of these lines of thinking are completely ridiculous IMO. In fact, I think it’s the other way around. If you do vote/initiate and end up unhappy, I would say you’re prerogative to complain is much less than that of someone who didn’t pick that candidate/relationship. George Carlin did an excellent skit about this once. :)</p>
<p>And I do kinda agree with that. But on the other hand, if I’m not willing to go out of my way for someone, should I really expect them to go out of their way for me?</p>
<p>Most of them are afraid of spiders and have to come to almost a complete stop before completing a right turn, and you’re waiting for them to get up enough courage to ask you out? Hope you like dating Miss Michigan.</p>
<p>… <em>googles</em></p>
<p>Hell, I would probably date Miss Michigan. What’s wrong with her? XD</p>
<p>Hold your right hand out in front of you, palm up. Looks like a map of Michigan, right? Nuff said.</p>