<p>it is interesting that so many people have really bad calc teachers, and that one class seems to be make or break</p>
<p>pretty pathetic system</p>
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my recommendation is for her to drop the course, and home school the subject. She would need to be heavily tutored or homeschooled throughout the year and summer, and then needs to either take a college level math course or an advanced level math course at her school next year and excell showing that she can do the work.
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<p>I totally agree with that, but some of the posters stated that such a thing is not permissible in the more Northern areas of our country.</p>
<p>Don't know where it would not be. If you already have the requisite years of math, and that runs just through Alg 2 from what I have seen, there is no reason why you have to take further math in high school as far as difficulty level, and if 3 years are required you can take that in senior year. There are all sorts of courses offered for kids who are not bent on the solid academics that can replace precalc.<br>
I know a friend's daugher who dropped a bio course because the teacher did not get along with her and it looked like it was going to be taken out through the grades. This was not just the paranoid thinking of the girl; apparently the teacher who had been around for a while was notorious for doing this to kids he did not dislike, and because of some unfortunate things that occurred between the girl and him, she had definite reason to believe that she was not going to be a favored student. Gamemanship, yeah, it was. She dropped bio, took AP environemental studies that year and took college bio at a local (not community) college that summer where she aced the course. Got her college credit without taking an AP exam for BIo, got the environmental as a bonus and continued with Chem and Physics bypassing the nasty bio teacher in the processs. Now goes to Duke premed.</p>
<p>What's not allowed in many school systems (my d's, for example), is to home school math for a year and then take the "advanced level math course" the following year if the pre-req for that course is not studied at the high school. So, for example, one could not home-study trig in 11th grade and then sign up for calculus (and particularly not AP Calculus) in 12th.</p>
<p>Nor is it permissible to take a college course and have it count towards your GPA in high school. And of course you'd have to pay for it yourself, take a full courseload in high school (since to the school the college course "doesn't exist") and work it in around the full school day and any extra curriculars. Not a pleasant option for most kids, especially math phobic ones.</p>
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Nor is it permissible to take a college course and have it count towards your GPA in high school. And of course you'd have to pay for it yourself, take a full courseload in high school (since to the school the college course "doesn't exist") and work it in around the full school day and any extra curriculars. Not a pleasant option for most kids, especially math phobic ones.
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<p>But, the student could finish the math requirements of their high school and then take extra math at University or Community College during the summer, right?</p>
<p>Yes, but it still wouldn't count in their high school, and they'd still have to take the full course load (at least as far as I can tell - I don't think anyone's done it in many, many years. The school has a rigorous and complete math curriculum, even for those who may finish AP Calc in 11th grade.)</p>
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Yes, but it still wouldn't count in their high school
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<p>Well, now I cannot quite say I am asking that. I was asking if some of these school districts mind if a student who has finished their math requirements for high school graduation could carry on with things at a College prior to graduating.
It would be rather unethical for a student to presume that doing such a thing would count towards their high school gpa.
I am also rather sure that if I did not put the city in which I live near my nic, then no one would presume odd things about my responses. But, it is alright.</p>
<p>Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, in our school district, kids can do whatever they want on their own time. That of course includes taking courses at community college or at University. (And I made no assumptions about you based on your name or otherwise. Didn't even look at where you lived. I know schools that will consider college courses for the high school record, or give release time, if the kids have exhausted the school's courseload.) In fact, my kid did take a summer course at college, without her district's permission or even knowledge.</p>
<p>Senior year is almost over, and I wanted to update this thread. College-wise, my daughter had mixed results. I know that her math difficulties were only one contributing factor, but I'm still sad that it worked out the way it did. She was rejected from Northwestern and Vassar, and waitlisted at William and Mary. I do think that the lack of calculus hurt her. She did take AP Statistics as several posters recommended and is doing fine in that. Her teacher is a gem and that helps. Also, I think her C in precalculus (junior year) kept her out of the honors program at the University of Maryland, but she got into the scholars program. She received scholarships from all four of her match/safety schools. I think it was a very tough year all around. Thanks to everyone who replied, and best of luck to your children!</p>
<p>Thank you for posting. I was thinking of this thread the other day and wondering how it had gone for your DD. I do think you did the right thing in allowing your DD to take the course that was right for her rather than the one that would look "best" on applications. </p>
<p>I wish you and your DD the best, and I hope she loves University of Maryland and has four happy, happy years there!</p>
<p>I'm so glad I found this thread! My D, who has always been a 'math head', is really struggling in pre-calc this year. She'll be lucky to get out with a C--the first ever on her report card. She was so disheartened by her struggle that she didn't want any math at all in her senior year. Her guidance counselor and I talked her into taking Stats, but she refuses to take AP. She is totally demoralized by this pre-calc. The HS here offers a program through which kids can take a community college course at the HS and get credit for it. She's taking one of those for stats and one for english composition. Hope it goes well. Stats is so different from pre-calc, though. She should be fine.</p>
<p>Stats is very useful, no matter what field a person pursues because you see so many numbers & results all the time. It's good to understand how to dig a little & decide what you think of the study/interpretation, etc.
My S took Statistics at a local college the summer after 10th grade & did well but said it was not "deep" enough & didn't cover as much as he had hoped. He owns the book & could more of learn it on his own & maybe he will this summer.</p>
<p>I'm having a similar problem. I'm a sophomore taking an honors junior level math class. I was getting A+s and As in the honors freshman level (in 8th grade) and honors sophomore level (in 9th grade), but this year, it's the NY State Math B curriculum, btw, I'm having trouble. Not so much trouble that I'm worried about the Regents, but enough that I'm getting Bs as quarter averages. Some of it is definitely due to the teacher, because the other teacher is a lot easier and kids in her class who have always been worse at math than me are getting As and that teacher requires a lot less on tests than mine. But I'm not denying that I have trouble with certain topics. I'm SOOOO inconsistent. My test grades last quarter were 97, 84, 76, 62, 94. I know my weakness though. It's time. When I have enough time, I can do well. Otherwise, I make mistakes so stupid I want to cry! The test I got a 62 on...5/7 questions I got wrong were completely careless errors. When I say careless I mean bubbling wrong answers, recopying the answer wrong, using wrong signs in a formula even though the correct formula is written down on my paper....and my teacher is harsh with the partial credit. My proof is that I easily got a 98 on the midterm----which we have 3 hours for! (the format is modeled after the Regents...but harder). But then, I feel like it's pointless to drop down to 11Regular because with the way our school weights, my GPA would go down by the same amount.
I'm scared for Precalc next year and APCalcAB senior year. :/</p>
<p>also, its EXTREMELY agitating because for science, my school only offeres Physics Regular or AP Physics B or AP Physics C. Regular Physics would probably be too easy for me, but AP Phys B will definitely be too hard. The class itself isn't supposed to be too horrible, but most kids don't do well b/c of the teacher, and I don't think I'd take the AP Exam. So I'm faced with either underchallenging or overchallenging myself.
<em>sigh</em></p>
<p>Hi, OP
I clicked onto this thread b/c Math has been our family's misery, and b/c I took an advanced degree in a field today called Regional Planning, worked at it, and later another masters and second career as a schoolteacher. </p>
<p>Although my Planning degree is way out of date, there are many ways to work in the environment other than "environmental science." She might be stronger in policy. In college or grad school, she might continue to find the math component of her required science classes to be challenging. That doesn't mean it's impossible, by any means!! I did it, but it was hard and time consuming. In grad school, I readily "A"ced my planning policy, studio and theory classes. The program also required us to take specific graduate courses in botany, geology, soil science. There, my profs were teaching a class full of grad students from those fields. I worked my tail off to get a B in those courses. They were interesting, but hard.
So it's all do-able. But I'm suggesting THIS is the time for her to research the whole field of "Environmental Science" to see if there might be branches within that career that will focus upon HER strengths.
Communication, writing, presentations are all needed in environmental work. Often I was on consulting teams with scientists, assigned to put together their reports and write language around it so the lay reader could understand. Regional Planners, as I was, are "generalists" and we couldn't "do" much of anything but without us the scientists were too technical for the general public to understand. To help decision makers within town boards understand, sometimes a generalist is needed to make the language user-friendly, or to buttonhole the scientists into hearing what the public is upset about; sometimes the scientists need to reframe their inquiries in the field, based on public perceptions or misperceptions. So, there's a political side to environmental change that's not about holding signs, but negotiating meetings so that scientists and the public can communicate. That's what regional planners do, mostly.
I'm sure there are other new fields that I don't even know about that still express love of the environment.
If that's all wrong advice for her, let me tell you about my niece's exciting NEW program, which probably is very technical. (I have 35 nieces so no end of stories...) She's in a SUNY program for Forestry and Wildlife, conducted in Syracuse, NY. It's near Syracuse U but it's not Syr U. Look it up under State University of New York.
If by any stretch of imagination she'd like to study desert ecology in Israel, look up Kibbutz Lotan. Maybe it could be a Jr. Year abroad for her, or a summer. They're very progressive in many ways.
Good luck
In response to your original question, my D got C's in precalc (averaging in her term D and B). After that she didn't take math senior year. She chose colleges according to which ones she thought might not mind it too much. But, when she saw the distribution requirement for Math at the college she wanted to go to, she was heartened to see that they also had courses offered to gain points in "Quantitative Proficiency" without ever exactly having to take a "college math l0l course." For example, she took a course in "Musical Acoustics" and some in computer science that counted towards her QP requirement.<br>
I'm not saying this is a good way to go through life, but she has extraordinary strengths in other areas, and just would not let her weakness in Math define her.
Do the best she can do now in Math, seek to dazzle the AdCom's with other strengths (really, dazzle) and she'll be considered a lopsided candidate. Be honest (briefly, one sentence...) somewhere on the Ap so they realize she's aware of it. Most aps have a place, "Is there anything on your transcript you'd like to address.." and that's where she generally put in her recognition.
NEVER say it's because of the teacher on the app (you probably knew that).
She said she worked as hard as she could, yet still got the C. She wanted them to know she hadn't been lazy.
I've heard many stories on CC about lopsided candidates getting in at the top LAC's. I don't know how they fare at the Ivies, or at state schools where they look at statistics a bit more coldly.
I think the smartest thing we did was let her take off Math in her senior year. Some would disagree. We felt she needed to use all her energy for her dazzling strengths, and to engage in the time-consuming process of applying to colleges, in the fall of senior year.
It was a risk but it worked out for us. We only looked at private LAC's for her, however, which had everything to do with "rightness of fit."</p>
<p>Just saw this thread for the first time today and boy does it hit home. I have 2 d's who fit this mold - started out doing great in math and at some point hit a level and/or a teacher that just threw a wrench in the whole thing. I allowed d1 to drop pre-calc part way through Junior year because it was making her miserable, even with a tutor. She had already met her high school math req. so she did not take any math beyond that. The g/c did warn her that it may limit her college choices, and we did ,in fact, have to eliminate some schools that had a mandatory 4 year math requirement.
She is very happy at her college of choice now and has completed most of her math requirements by taking 2 semesters of logic. She loved it and I think it's a great option. She does still need to take statistics, but I think she will be fine with that.
D2 is just completing Alg 2 and will not even consider taking pre-calc next year. So she will be in the same situation as her sister. opefully it will work out for her. Talk about lopsided scores - she got a 34 on the reading part of the ACT and a 21 on the math - yikes! I am hoping that when she applies this fall, the schools will realize that as an art major - her math skills should be adequate.
For those of you with great math minds AND decent communication skills - please consider teaching high school math - LOL. We seem to have a real shortage of good teachers out there !!</p>
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I'm so glad I found this thread! My D, who has always been a 'math head', is really struggling in pre-calc this year. She'll be lucky to get out with a C--the first ever on her report card. She was so disheartened by her struggle that she didn't want any math at all in her senior year.
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Get her the book "statistics problem solver", under $20 on amazon. There are problem solver books for most math and science subjects, and they are worth 50x the price! It's like having a tutor sitting at your elbow, giving progressively harder problems on each topic. </p>
<p>It's important to use them correctly, though. Just reading the question and the right answer doesn't do it. You need to cover up the answer and work the problem, check the result and redo if you have it wrong, then repeat on the next problem.</p>
<p>Back in the day (1970s), I took calc in HS & then tried it again 1st semester of college. Never did get the conceptual aspects of it, so gave it up. In college, for the remainder of my college math requirement, I also took logic & two computer science courses & statistics. I think those 4 courses were MUCH more helpful than the calc class I stumbled through.</p>
<p>this is me. exactly. in fact, alamode, we sound like the same person, math-wise. I'm in 3H right now (honors, junior level) and I've always done well in school, but for some reason this year has been so difficult, and I just may end up with a C on my report card. I'm taking pre-calc next year, but regents level, not honors, so we'll see. I'm trying to convince myself that a C won't ruin me.</p>
<p>Some say pre-calc is harder than calc, but I don't know.</p>
<p>HImom:
Your comments are reassurig. Our D has high SAT scores but not great grades B+'s. I can only assume ther will be a good college for her...</p>