<p>I am discussing with my S about narrowing his college list. We intend to list 15 with 3-4 safty, 8-10 match, 2-3 reach. We need info about strengthness about ECs in order to determine which is safty, match and reach.
Comparing his strength to college profiles, I am wondering how strong his EC would be considered in admission.
He is a violinist. He began learning it at 3. He has been a participant in a nationally recognized youth orchestra since 12 and has participated in its chamber music program for 3 years in the past. He also has been a member of the school's orchestra and serves as concert master from last year. His school chamber group was accepted to Lincoln Center's young musician program through audition. But he did not receive any personal award other than small local ones. He has participated in chamber music summer camp every year since 11.
Assuming applying to top schools, how strong is this campared to other applicant's EC? Is this considered rather weaker or stronger than average? How should he demonstrate this activity in his application?</p>
<p>His music EC shows a good commitment and passion for his playing. That is a good thing.</p>
<p>However, I will caution…do not expect a strong EC to take him over the top in acceptances. My DD had a similar profile to your son’s…very committed to music on a much less common instrument that every orchestra needs. It didn’t help her a LICK in college acceptances…not a bit. BUT the school at which she enrolled is happy to have her in their orchestra.</p>
<p>A lot will depend on the schools. There are a ton of violin players out there but orchestras need many of them in the ensemble. </p>
<p>My daughter contacted EVERY school to which she applied, and talked to the music department chairperson and the orchestra director. She also had trial lessons with the instrument teacher. BUT she only applied to five schools (2 safeties, 2 matches, and a reach).</p>
<p>Is he planning on majoring in music? For a regular college application that level of EC accomplishment is fine, above average in fact. Being concert master iof a high-level youth orchestra is a worthy achievement.</p>
<p>Our two girls had roughly similar levels of musical ECs (one bassoon and the other French horn) - not concert master of course, but they held leadership positions and won all-region and all-state honors, and both were admitted to selective colleges.</p>
<p>So your son’s ECs are fine, IMO. What are more important for college admissions will be his grades and test scores. Unless your kid is a world-famous musical star of some sort, musical ECs cannot make up for mediocre stats.</p>
<p>His music EC is nice, but won’t push him into a place like HPY, where being a child prodigy musician who tours the world is the kind of musical EC that stands out. </p>
<p>Why is he applying to 3-4 safeties, 8-10 matches? He only needs one school to attend. I can see applying to 2 safeties to give one a choice if those are the only acceptances, but seems your son is planning to apply to an excessive number. After all, presumably, he’ll be accepted to all of his safeties. That’s why they are safeties.</p>
<p>Thank you, thumper1 and coreur.
I am asking this question because he selected colleges solely based on SAT scores and his preferences and it looks to me reasonable in that regard. But I assume most of applicants to selective schools have strong EC records so that I am afraid if his EC might be a discount factor.
thumper1, I will strongly encourage my S to contact music department heads in the schools he plans to apply.
thumper1, coureur, did your Ds send art supplements?</p>
<p>Nothstarmom, we plan to narrow the list to 8 after visiting several colleges in late summer when he returns from camp:)</p>
<p>^^ Agree with all of the above advice. Academic profile is most critical, a great music EC a very nice bonus – especially if it reflects a superior level of commitment, accomplishment and real interest on the part of the student.</p>
<p>My violinist D had a very similar music profile to your S. For a while she was considering a performance major, so we essentially did two college searches, including visits and contacts with music departments, some sample lessons and interviews with violin faculty, etc. She ultimately decided not to purse a performance major, but DID include a music resume and recorded a 10-minute CD as her arts supplement with all of her apps. Her private teacher also gave her a recommendation letter which she was able to include with those apps that had room for additional supplemental information.</p>
<p>orchestramom, thank you. Do you think your D’s violinist profile and art supplement helped her application?
My S also has decided not to pursue music performance major. I think he will do the almost same thing as your D did. His school orchestra teacher already helped him writing music resume. He plans to record his performance with a pianist in late summer to burn demo CDs. Maybe his EC record will help him to some extent. I would love to hear opinions from parents whose children with other kind of ECs, atheletes for example. I think we music oriented people tend to overestimate the strengthness of music…</p>
<p>At some top schools his musical talent will help more then at others. For example, it is probably easier to “impress” Stanford’s music dept than Harvard’s one, even though the schools are in the same league academically.</p>
<p>My son was a music major so he auditioned at each of his schools. No need for any supplemental CD. My daughter was NOT a music major. She scheduled private lessons at two of the five schools to which she applied (her top two choices). She also spoke to the orchestra director and music department chairperson and all five schools. She did not send in any supplemental materials to any school. The other three schools would have hired an instructor for her had she enrolled there (she is an oboe/English horn player). </p>
<p>My daughter (the one who is not a music major) found that she had to discuss her desire to play at each school we visited. Some schools (Elon was one) simply do NOT allow non-majors in their orchestras. College of Charleston only has one music ensemble AND they have a music program. The music major(s) would certainly have taken priority over my non-major daughter in these ensembles. There are some school (Boston University is one) that have ensembles for non-majors. The ensembles for music majors are not open to non-majors. So…the bottom line is you need to check if your kid is interested in continuing to play in college.</p>
<p>I’ll add…if he does NOT want to continue playing violin in college, this EC history will have much less value than if he does…in my opinion.</p>
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<p>There are a lot of factors that go into determining which schools are safeties, matches and reaches, but the strength of a music EC is pretty low on the list unless you are talking about auditioning for a music performance department.</p>
<p>Coureur’s Ds did turn in an arts supplement for certain schools, but it was a short and sweet CD–probably no more than 3 minutes of playing on it. Neither had the time or the inclination to really prep several pieces and since they weren’t going for music department admissions, that was fine for them.</p>
<p>This is a very interesting thread to me, and I hope OP doesn’t mind if I hijack it ever so slightly:</p>
<p>So for a student applying to tippy top college like Yale, who has devoted a lot of time to music and is very, very good but not an internationally or even nationally prize-winning performer, does it help to send in an arts supplement? Does it hurt if you are ‘merely excellent’?</p>
<p>I doubt if it helps for a student who’s very good, but not excellent to send an arts supplement to Yale. I know that music is the most popular EC at Harvard, so there are many students who are very good, and have devoted a lot of time to music. Since schools like HPY don’t care about demonstrated interest, I doubt that sending an arts supplement would help if one isn’t absolutely excellent. After all, to have such a supplement evaluated means the admissions officers have to send it to a music faculty member, and if someone is just very good, that’s a waste of that person’s time. In fact, unless there’s evidence in the application that the applicant is excellent, I imagine that the admissions officers don’t even ask faculty to evaluate the student since if the faculty were evaluating all of the arts supplements submitted, they’d have no time to do anything else. </p>
<p>Remember that places like HPY attract stellar music students such as Yoyo Ma and Leonard Bernstein. That’s how good one would have to be to stand out for music.</p>
<p>Remember that ECs are just one of the factors that can tip in to places like HPYS someone with the requisite stats (something that about 90% of Harvard applicants have) to the top schools. Essay, recommendations and factors such as where the student lives (being from NYC, for instance, is a minus as so many excellent students apply from there. Being from the Pacific NW or the Dakotas would be a plus), what the student’s income is, whether the student is first gen college, whether the student is from a high school that hasn’t before had a Harvard acceptance (a plus), etc.</p>
<p>Being merely excellent doesn’t hurt, but it may not help, especially at someplace like Yale. If the college has a big music program and the spots in the top musical groups will be taken up by music performance majors, a music EC isn’t as useful. I put Yale in this group. </p>
<p>But Harvard, for example, has a lot of music groups and no real performance majors. Being merely excellent could be useful, especially if you are lucky enough to play an instrument that the college happens to have a crying need for in the upcoming year.</p>
<p>Just my opinion…</p>
<p>Music is the most popular EC for Harvard students, and probably also for Harvard applicants. I don’t think Harvard worries about finding enough students for its dozens of musical groups. More of a concern would be filling sports slots since Harvard has more NCAA Division 1 teams than does any other college in the country, and most star athletes don’t have the stats to get into Harvard nor are they interested in going to a school that’s in general not known for its sports.</p>
<p>Maybe not for violinists, but Harvard was always on the lookout for more bassoonists when my D attended. Not enough to go around for all of the music groups that wanted one. D was always in demand and couldn’t play for all the groups that wanted her to play for them.</p>
<p>As for sports, since the Ivys don’t give sports scholarships, they have a harder time recruiting someone who is good enough to get a scholarship someplace else. Especially if you play a sport that has a lot of alumni interest (think football), I agree that excellence in a sport can be extremely helpful.</p>
<p>I see your point, ellemenope. What the OP’s student’s instrument is would be important. Unfortunately, the student is a violinist, and I imagine Harvard has lots of those. Doesn’t mean, though that the student won’t get in, just that the student shouldn’t overestimate their chances because of being a very good violinist.</p>
<p>^Agreed, NSM, about not overestimating if you are a very good violinist…</p>
<p>FiddlinEcon…if your son has participated in any music groups that could also be seen as a volunteer effort in the community, i.e., community band, i think i would be sure to encourage him to include that in the application…or maybe if he has helped in reaching out to younger students through participation in music activities too…i.e., mentoring, etc.</p>
<p>highlighting any leadership roles within his music ec would be a plus too.</p>
<p>my ds is music oriented and so i am finding this thread very helpful. thanks to all.</p>