<p>Dear men,</p>
<p>See above.</p>
<p>Love, Elizabeth.</p>
<p>(Good call, Muppet)</p>
<p>Dear women,
For once, ignore social distinctions between the sexes and/or the historical precendents that set a distinction between the sexes and their roles and just ask a guy out once in a while.</p>
<p>-Jesse.</p>
<p>^
|
|________Best post of the thread :-)</p>
<p>I am a female and I would just like to say to all the other females that I completely agree with welshie's advice.</p>
<p>I am a shy girl whose never even dated or even really liked a guy. But last year, there was this one boy that really caught my eye. He wasn't one of those outgoing easy people to talk to. So coming up with excuses to talk to him ranged from barely any to none.</p>
<p>I am not sure what got into me, maybe it was all the studying I was doing for my AP classes and senior year stuff... but I just came up to him one day and said, "So homecoming is coming up, and I was wondering if you wanted to go with me."</p>
<p>Now of course, we already knew each other by name at least, since we'd been going to the same high school for 3 years. I didn't even want to go to homecoming, the only dances I had ever been to were ones that I got extra credit for. But the point is, asking him that was just about as blatant as saying, "Hey, I really like you and I think we should start hanging out."</p>
<p>In my case, things worked out extremely well. Sigh, I am in love...</p>
<p>But even if you get rejected, you will at least (as I like to say) have a brilliant ancedote to tell people. And when you're a mom (and if society still has the same double standards), your daughter can say, "My mom rocked in college."</p>
<p>Of course, you'll feel hurt if the guy says no. So think about this really hard, and try and see whether or not this guy is "worthy" enough over possible rejection. And by all means, try to do it when he isn't with anyone. I imagine rejection is even harder in front of an audience.</p>
<p>And above all, you can be happy with yourself for making a "bold" move, and more than likely he will admire/appreciate you for doing that as well.</p>
<p>Try something new. Ok, sorry for the long rant.</p>
<p>To continue our charming letter format-</p>
<p>Dear Jesse,</p>
<p>Are you sure it won't be seen as too forward? I'm so afraid of making things awkward...</p>
<p>-Elizabeth</p>
<p>It's nothing short of flattering.</p>
<p>I'd have to agree with welshie.</p>
<p>Alright, then elaborate. What's a good way to ask a guy out that's not too forward, pushy, vague, etc?</p>
<p>Girls already leave plenty of hints that they like someone but unfortunately some guys like <em>cough,cough</em> me are too thick skinned, insensitive, aloof, whatever to pick up on those hints. </p>
<p>Girls in general tend to be more perceptive to body language than guys and therefore will be able to make better judgements on whether the opposite sex actually likes them back. That's why girls are actually more qualified to do the "asking out" than guys.</p>
<p>What a pointless thread.</p>
<p>How it goes: you meet someone, you click, and you just know</p>
<p>Now I'm not in college yet but girls in college and girls in high school are pretty much the same.</p>
<p>I've had a gf for 10 months now and like a million before her, and I'm not the greatest looking guy or anything. You don't go <em>looking</em> for the right girl-->it just happens. If you claim you are trying to "find the right girl" what you really are doing is probably trying to find a girl you want to put out because you never got any.</p>
<p>In conclusion, stop sweating it, because if she likes you, you'll know. Women are terrible at disguising this. Try pretending NOT to be interested in her and you will be able to tell if she's trying harder to hang out with you or is getting frustrated with you or what not. And for the record guys, looks aren't anything. I've been with many hot girls that nothing materialized with. I found myself bored of them after a while. You have to be able to talk to her and understand her otherwise nothing will happen (and, no, you won't get lucky either if that's what you are looking for). Remember, just wait for the click ... :)</p>
<p>It's hard to read some guys, I think. Like me. I almost intentionally try NOT to look at the girl when she's looking at me. Once she looks away, I think, "stupid, stupid..." Girls are actually more forward, I think. They WANT the other person to know they like them. Guys think that indifference is somehow attractive. </p>
<p>I know this, yet I still do it.</p>
<p>Streetlight, you're a lucky man. We're are all sweating in the game, and you're on the bench flirting with the cheerleaders. I guess I have a little too much George Costanza in me. Some girls find it cute...and then they walk away.</p>
<p>(nvm. i deleted this post because it may have sounded offensive to others)</p>
<p>aim78--> there's no game. You all are making things harder than they are. Trust assured you will find someone who is extremely interesting and thinks you are too. Just be friends with the person and it'll work out if it is meant to happen. Don't play stupid games and "not look at the girl" or something like that. Just be yourself.</p>
<p>The "we're too good friends" excuse is BS too. If she's your best friend and thinks you are attractive, you are in. If she gives you that excuse, then she's just not telling you the real reason.</p>
<p>Here's something I found that may satiate the most of you:
<a href="http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/%7Ejenf/writing/rant04.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html</a></p>
<p>Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal </p>
<p>This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what *******s guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girls every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.</p>
<p>This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once theyre at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow dont end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.</p>
<p>This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldnt worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree youd ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didnt have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing serious between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: oh, but were just friends! And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because youre nice like that. </p>
<p>The nice guys dont often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys dont seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I cant. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as oh, hes too nice to date or he would be a good boyfriend but hes not for me or he already puts up with so much from me, I couldnt possibly ask him out! or the most frustrating of all: no, it would ruin our friendship. Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I cant figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (Im going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesnt last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single. </p>
<p>So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know youre sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.</p>
<p>Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003</p>
<p>Streetlight, that was great. Thanks for sharing it! Nice guys are always appreciated by me at least :)</p>
<p>I'm so glad I don't have to worry about asking a guy out. I could never do it-- much too scary. But knowing how terrifying it would be for me, I respect a guy so much more for having the courage to make himself vulnerable by asking me out. It means that he must think me worth the risk-- and that is very attractive.</p>
<p>Well, "Superman" gave me quite a scare a couple days ago. I was talking to him on the phone, and he mentioned that he'll be going to Vegas for a conference for work in a few weeks. And he said that he <em>could</em> get me a ticket if I wanted to come... Essentially inviting me to go away with him for the weekend-- and I just about had a heart attack! Fortunately when I hesitated (in shock) he backtracked real fast (faster than a speeding bullet, you might say), "you're right, it's much to soon" etc. And I said, "Yes, way too soon". We haven't mentioned it since, but it got me wondering and worrying-- does being a "girlfriend" in college translate to having sex? That's not the definition in MY dictionary-- but for many people I've talked to, that is the connotation. So, what do you guys think? Does girlfriend= assumed sex partner? How should I handle this?</p>
<p>The limit is 6 dates. After that, you are obligated to have sex.</p>
<p>I'm just pulling this out of my ass. But I do know that eventually, he's going to get tired of talking.</p>
<p>So what... Do I dump him after 6 dates then? Grrrr... Aim78, sometimes you really irritate me.</p>
<p>"Does girlfriend= assumed sex partner?"</p>
<p>WTheck??<br>
what kind of people do you talk to?</p>
<p>Perhaps I fit that "nice guy" stigma too well but a girlfriend (at least in its definition for me right now) is someone I can call up and just hang out and be with. She's that kind of person I'd never get tired of talking with or just enjoying company with. Would we kiss? Sure, if they time was right. It sickens me that at places as "righteous" as BYU still are plagued with hormonal-driven boys that want someone to just makeout with. I want someone to just enjoy and experience things with. Someone to go out and play in the snow with and just not give a care what other fools think when they hear that we haven't made out or that we don't even call each other boyfriend/girlfriend but instead, just "buddies." I like that-- the complete and total lack of consideration of what other people think about your relationship. I love knowing what I want and knowing that it's what my "buddy" wants as well. I want that!</p>
<p>Hormones are normal. Absolutely normal.</p>
<p>Anglophile, if you're one of those people who wants to wait until marriage, that's cool. But you'll have to give him some kind of hint.</p>