<p>Seeking a parent's perspective on this problem....</p>
<p>I'm a high school junior, and my family (mostly my mom) and I have been discussing what kind of colleges I should look at/apply to. I'm interested in engineering, which I have a feeling is not her first career choice to me, but she claims that it's okay with her if I wish to pursue engineering. </p>
<p>The problem as of late has been that she insists that I should only apply to small(ish), east coast LACs on the East Coast such as Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Mt. Holyoke, Barnard, etc. (one of which is her alma mater). Obviously, most of these schools she is suggesting don't offer engineering. However, I'm still willing to take a look at them since she feels that they are "right" for me and, after all, she is my mother. However, when I suggest schools like Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon, etc., she is very negative and says that she doesn't think they're the right schools for me, and I won't like the other students - yet she won't explain her reasoning. I'm sort of wondering if part of the reason is that she wants me to follow her path and go to one of these schools just like she did...I just can't see why she is so against the mid-size universities and LACs/smaller schools with engineering that I want to look at.</p>
<p>I've tried to talk to her, but she just starts yelling at me and it's really hard. The only school we've really been able to agree on is Smith, which I actually think would be a really good fit, but obviously we can't just agree on those schools. I've met with my college counselor, and she's been pretty helpful...my mom's meeting with her soon, so I'm hoping my college counselor can help with the situation a little, but I'm not really sure...</p>
<p>Any suggestions on how to talk to her/compromise on what kind of schools to look at? Thanks!</p>
<p>Others here will give you better thoughts, but from Columbia (which Barnard is part of, last I checked) Eng. School below -- have you thought about getting her to go with you to check it out. </p>
<p>Engineering has been called the newest liberal art. At Columbia Engineering, students not only study science and mathematics and gain technical skills but also study literature, philosophy, art history, music theory, and major civilizations through the Core Curriculum in the humanities. Whether you want to become a professional engineer, working in industry or government, or plan to pursue a career in the physical and social sciences, medicine, law, business, or education, SEAS will provide you with an expansive, global education marked by research opportunities and a concern for the common good. It is an education for the real world—an enlightened approach to engineering as part of a web of larger concerns: social and economic, political and cultural.</p>
<p>When you visit schools, you should begin to get a better idea of what you really want and what is a fit. And so should your mom. You might be surprised to find you love the smaller LAC schools. Or, your mom might realize the bigger engineering schools are perfect for you.</p>
<p>When my S was starting the process, he said he definitely did not want a small LAC type school. We only visited a few because of this. We visited some LAC's close (w/in an hour or three, ie a day visit) to home that were w/in his stats range to get used to the college visit and know what you did, what to ask, etc. He was our first. He was also interested in engineering.</p>
<p>He ended up at Colgate! It was the only school that he applied that did not have an engineering major. (He is a physics major, math minor at the Gate) He was accepted at Carnegie Mellon, etc. But the irony is--he ended up at a small LAC. He loves Colgate!</p>
<p>OP, maybe a compromise is an LAC w/ engineering such as Bucknell (highly ranked in engineering) or Lafayette.</p>
<p>Maybe you and your mom could visit some local colleges that are larger and of the type that interests you, so she and you could get a flavor for what those are like. If you're in Northern California, you could visit Berkeley and Stanford; if in the south, go see UCLA and UC San Diego. I'm not suggesting that you should go to those schools, but you could use them as stand-ins for the kind of school that attracts you. During the visits, both of you will get a better feel for what these schools have to offer and maybe your mom will become less worried about larger schools. It would be especially helpful if you could arrange to talk to engineering students while you're there.</p>
<p>You might also want to look at Harvey Mudd - small, but part of a larger school setting.</p>
<p>IMO your mother needs to realize it's you going to college and not her. You should major in what you're interested in and there won't be too many people who'd argue that an engineering major isn't a good choice for someone interested in it.</p>
<p>If you're going to major in engineering you need to go to a college that offers it and ideally, offers a very good program in it. This will exclude some of the schools.</p>
<p>Your mother wants you to go to school back east but where do you want to go to school? California has some outstanding colleges for engineering (my Ds were/are both engineering) with graduates who are highly successful. To start with consider UCB, UCLA, UCSD, other UCs, CalPoly SLO, Harvey Mudd, CalTech, USC but there are others as well. There's another advantage in California as well in that there are some highly ranked excellent state schools here that are less expensive than privates discounting financial aid.</p>
<p>From your post it sounds as if your mother is being overbearing on this. She likely has he heart in the right place but it's a setup for less than ideal experience for you.</p>
<p>A lot of LACs have 3/2 engineering programs. You'd spend your first three years at the LAC where you could do all the liberal arts stuff, and then finish up at a cooperating university where you would complete the major in engineering. You'd also end up with two full undergraduate degrees, one from each place.</p>
<p>Yeah, LAC's aren't that strong in engineering. Since you live in California, why don't you explore UCLA,UCB,USC,UCSD,Cal Poly SLO, Harvey Mudd, Cal tech, even UCSB or UCI.</p>
<p>Most of them are state schools and are cheap to in-state.</p>
<p>I will definitely start by looking at some local schools. Berkeley is just a bridge away, and Stanford isn't all that far. </p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad: I actually don't disagree with her about going to the east coast; I think I might like to try living there for four years. However, I definitely think that California has some great schools and I think it wouldn't be very smart not to give serious consideration to the UCs because I really think they're a great value. </p>
<p>My mom is especially set against the idea of a school like Harvey Mudd. She sees it as to math/science focused...she says the same thing about MIT, CalTech, etc. I know that Harvey Mudd has the advantage of the other Claremont colleges, but she doesn't see it that way. I actually feel that a place like Harvey Mudd might not be the best fit personally - correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone seems very math/science-y and even though I want to do engineering, I think I'd like to be at a school where not everyone is majoring in math/science/engineering. I guess in the case of Mudd I'm just not sure how much having the other Claremont colleges makes a difference...I will certainly look into visiting, however. </p>
<p>happymomof1: thanks for the suggestion about 3/2 programs. I sort of dismissed them initially, but I think I might start considering them again.</p>
<p>I can relate to your mother, even though she is being wrongheaded here. I was too -- I imposed my biases and prejudices on my daughter too much in retrospect. I was also right about a lot of things, as it turns out. However, you need to make your own discoveries and not always follow others' advice (even from your Mom!). I suggest sitting down with your mother and thanking her for her love and support, then tell her gently that you need to find for yourself what makes you happy. Tell her you welcome her guidance, that you always will. Your mother may be having trouble letting you go now, but when she sees that you are happy, it will be easier for her to let go of specific dreams for you.</p>
<p>On a practical note, D's counselor suggested seeing one of every thing: small LAC, woman's college, large university, rural, urban, etc. It made for a less pressured college visiting season since we were just "checking off the list", we all became more open-minded and learned a tremendous amount which was ultimately useful to my D.</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon has very strong music, theater and art as well as engineering and computer science. There are even kids who go there for straight science and humanities. Perhaps if you could show her some materials from the school she might realize that it is not all tech all the time. (Though you can make it that way if you want to.) If you can ask her to visit some of the schools you think you'd like as well as some that she think you'd like - perhaps she'll change her mind if she sees them in person.</p>
<p>From what I've heard Mudd is focused pretty heavily in the math/engineering end so if that doesn't sound appealing to you then some of the others may be a better fit. </p>
<p>The UCs offer excellent engineering programs yet also offer a wealth of other majors and it wouldn't be unusual to have a number of roommates who are majors other than engineering - actually, probably all or most will be non-engineering. However, the UCs are also large universities and some people don't like that aspect but others do. At the UCs if you ended up deciding you didn't like engineering it'd be easy to find another major to switch to (plenty do - there's a 35-45% attrition rate in CS for example where people switch to another major).</p>
<p>An advantage in heading east would be to experience another part of the country assuming you haven't lived there. A disadvantage is missing your friends/family back here since it's more difficult to travel back and forth and the visits home will be more costly. </p>
<p>Again, I'm sure your mom is approaching this with the idea of what's best for you but hopefully she'll realize that your input is very important since you're the one who'll actually go and your points are reasonable.</p>
<p>Your mother has a control issue, and is living her life through you. That is the fundamental problem, and any amount of rational discussion on college selection will not change that. If you need her to pay for college, until your Mom learns to let you go, there is not much you can do. She will need to see a counselor to get through these issues, and it will take time.</p>
<p>The choice of college is the kid's (subject to financial considerations). They have to own the decision in order to own the success or failure. Parents can provide a lot of guidance and wisdom, but it is counterproductive to force a kid to go to a college that s/he doesn't want to. I might veto one or two schools with good justification.</p>
<p>Kids have dreams, and yours is to be an engineer. Parents should help kids to realize their dreams (unless you wanted to be a beach bum or drug dealer). My #2 wants to be an actress, so I help her to have a Plan B to pay for things until Plan A succeeds.</p>
<p>In the meantime, research schools that meet her criteria and also have engineering programs. Hopefully she will not be as controlling on the courses you take.</p>
<p>I think your mother is making a mistake by trying to force you into colleges that don't offer your preferred major.</p>
<p>On the other hand, many students who think they want to be engineers decide after a year or two that the field is not for them. Transferring out of engineering is common, both because it's a tough program and because students can't really get a feel in high school for what engineering is like. And people who transfer out of engineering don't necessarily want to switch to something else that's very technical. Thus, a case can be made against schools like CalTech, MIT, and maybe even Carnegie Mellon. (I'm not so sure about Harvey Mudd; it depends on how hard it is to switch to other schools in the Claremont group.)</p>
<p>Fortunately, there is a third route: universities with good engineering programs that also offer plenty of other majors. Most of the UCs fit this description. Stanford also fills the bill (if you can get in). A good East Coast choice if you don't mind being out in the middle of nowhere is Cornell. Another good East Coast choice if you don't mind being in a central city is Penn. A case could also be made for looking at Tufts -- a school that brags that it graduates more engineers than it enrolls -- meaning that at Tufts, more people transfer into engineering than out of it. There are many others. </p>
<p>You might want to push Tufts as an option in particular because it has a relatively small-school feel to it.</p>
<p>Since you are a Californian, as I was when I headed to college, I highly recommend that you bypass CA schools. We Californians get very California centric if we don't leave the state at some point, and college is a great time to do so.</p>
<p>Smith sounds like a great meeting of the minds for you and your mom. She sounds smart and I'm certain has your best interests in mind, so will come around when you frame what you want seriously and make a cogent argument for the schools on your list. </p>
<p>So stand back and create a list of schools that reflect what you really want while demonstrating the philosophy she's espousing has been considered.</p>
<p>I can't understand WHY on earth your mom would be discouraging you from pursuing math and science???? That is nuts and you can tell her I said so :-)</p>
<p>I agree with Oreo. You might both like Smith.</p>
<p>Would Rochester be okay with your mom? What I like about Rochester is that you don't have to apply to a separate "Institute of Technology" or "College of Engineering." They have merit aid, too, if that is a consideration. And Rochester NY would certainly be a change from California! </p>
<p>Rice would be great too but I am going to take a wild guess and say that your mom is not going to want you to go to Texas.</p>
<p>(3-2 engineering programs? After three great years at a great small LAC, where you have bonded with our classmates and profs, who wants to leave when senior year is starting? I think you should pick a college that you hope to graduate from.)</p>
<p>I second Smith. If you graduate from the engineering department with a 3.5 GPA you're guaranteed admissions to some top grad schools (think dartmouth, princeton, ...). Also, Swarthmore has an engineering department.</p>