<p>Very well said. I don’t really see what’s wrong with the parents requiring / forcing the therapy issue. If it’s indeed really “nothing,” well, it’s just a few hours wasted. But perhaps a professional can get through to the student; or, if that’s just how the student is, the professional can serve as an intermediary between him and the parents so they all understand one another better.</p>
<p>Majjestic, let’s say your parents have friends or neighbors come over. Do you engage with them, come out of your room to chat, ask about their lives, etc.? If so, are you doing it “only to go through the motions” or do you actually care? If not, why not?</p>
<p>“Unhealthy” is such a vague term, especially when used in this context.</p>
<p>There are people–not many, but they do exist–who need no human interaction at all to be “healthy.” This is a simple fact. Most of them fall under the umbrella term ‘non-neurotypical.’</p>
<p>Perhaps the most famous example of this would be Temple Grandin, a scientist, inventor and social activist who made it onto the 2010 Time 100 list despite–gasp–not being one for gossip over coffee and having study buddy sessions at the library.</p>
<p>This woman, by the way, is known for developing the so-called hug machine and for being a vocal advocate for animal welfare and the ethical treatment of cattle in particular. Strangely accomplished for a damaged shell of a human being, isn’t she.</p>
<p>I can’t help but suspect a lot of the aggression directed at the OP in this thread is motivated by ignorance.</p>
<p>(Leaving aside the fact that the OP is obviously a ■■■■■.)</p>
Well, it depends. If these colleagues is similar to me in terms of interests based on my observations, such as spending the entire dinner talking about the project and how we can proceed, then sure. If, however, they are “normal”, as in they’ll mainly talk about “normal topics”, then I’ll kindly pass on the offer or make some kind of excuse so as they do not take it the wrong way.</p>
I’ve actually spoken to many graduate school admission officers, being a “social butterfly” never being stipulated by them. Just observing third and fourth year students in my program, none of them are social butterflies either. Most are introverted and keep to themselves, and these are the physicists and mathematicians of tomorrow. Let me guess, they’ll all fail getting in to, right? </p>
<p>
I take periodic breaks every 2 hours to let the material sink in as to not violate the “law of diminishing returns”. But thanks for that poor attempt at ridiculing me, shows just how mature you are.</p>
<p>Well, Ghostt, you’ll have to excuse me, but I don’t want my child to be like Temple Grandin. If I had a choice between an “accomplished” Temple Grandin and an “average” happy, engaged and social child, I’d take the average any day. Don’t kid yourself that having a child or loved one who is unable to interact socially isn’t a terrible strain on the parents.</p>
<p>Majjestic, in the scenario above (being invited to dinner), which describes your feelings more -
I have no interest in chit-chatting with these people beyond issues related to the project we are working on since I have no interest in their personal lives whatsoever; or
I don’t think I have the ability to chit-chat with them convincingly; I’m afraid I’d be awkward in doing so and thus it’s easier for me to bow out.</p>
<p>I do sense a whole not-wanting-to-move-past-your-comfort-zone and that in and of itself is problematic, IMO, since that’s part of growing up.</p>
<p>Several members of our family could be called “non-neurotypical.” I would say to the OP–your parents are concerned because they want you to live life to its fullest and be all you can be. While you are functioning very well academically and not causing trouble, and I’m sure your parents are thankful for that, their observation is that you aren’t experiencing everything they think a young person should. They only want the best for you. Talking to a therapist wouldn’t hurt. It would reassure your parents that they are doing all they can to help you, and you might gain some insight into why you seem to be socially “different” (not saying different is wrong) from most people. </p>
<p>BTW, there aren’t a lot of “backwoods” in Kansas. It’s mostly prairie/wheatfield here. And we actually have some cities, too.</p>
<p>You are missing the point entirely, because the ones who get ahead are not “social butterflies” but they are adept social networkers. The more skilled they are with social networking and understanding the nuances of social engagement, the better they end up doing. </p>
<p>It’s not about getting into grad school. If you have the grades and test scores and your parents can pay, a grad school will give you a spot. It’s just that you won’t get very far post-grad if you aren’t aware of and able to participate in all of the social stuff. You won’t even hear about the best opportunities because a lot of that stuff is learned by word of mouth, and many jobs have been filled long before they are actually posted. </p>
<p>Also, the workplace – any workplace – can be very competitive. If you go into work every day and do your job, but don’t engage socially with co-workers or superiors, then they won’t have any sense of loyalty or obligation to you. So you’ll get laid off in hard times simply because the person who has been given the job of making the cuts doesn’t care about you, and knows that he won’t get any flak from anyone else if he lets you go. </p>
<p>But again, that’s your business. It’s the “relationship with your parents” part that needs work right now.</p>
<p>That may be a problem for those who prefer to keep some/most aspects of their personal lives private, those who don’t want to get caught up in a campus/group gossip mill, or those who grew up with the idea that talking about personal stuff too much is emasculating (Mostly men).</p>
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<p>If those types of parents were like my aunt who can’t understand and disdains those with a strong passion for academics and emphasizes socialization…this could be problematic and even a distraction for the passionate academics. </p>
<p>His parents inviting them over once in a while to chat and him coming out to greet them is one thing. </p>
<p>Them doing it frequently and expecting him to spend copious time socializing is not only annoying…but quite dangerous. That’s how a couple of cousins ended up getting so far behind in their grad work that they were eventually kicked out of their programs. </p>
<p>With that being said, the OP does need to have his own social circle…if nothing else so they have shared interests and “they have his back” when his own abilities/resources aren’t enough.</p>
<p>I try not to be the kind of person who gets jerked around by strangers on the Internet (it’s much more respectable to get messed with by someone who actually takes the time to get to know you personally, I think!) but if someone who asked for my advice decided to repay that by being deliberately obtuse and annoyingly contrarian I would eventually get cranky with them after twenty-four hours, regardless of what they were actually saying. </p>
<p>Also, this is the third thread that the OP has created on this topic and – I just skimmed the other two – it’s going pretty much the same way as the others. It’s not the OP’s fault that people keep responding to him but this entire thing can be irritating to some. The only appropriate solution, of course, is not to engage him any more but what fun would that be?</p>
<p>Majjestic,
It is certainly your choice to live with limited social interaction. It sounds like your parents are concerned about that, and that is understandable. If my child were a social recluse, I would be concerned about them too. As for grad school, keep in mind that when you apply for both grad school and for a job, whether it be in academia or elsewhere, recommendations may play a part in your acceptance. If you are seen as a social isolate, that may work against you in your pursuits. We had a few, for lack of a better word, odd ducks in grad schoool. Not sure what ever became of them.</p>
<p>Temple Grandin is a highly intelligent, high functioning scientist who is autistic. I don’t think she is someone we want to be using as an example of a successful, healthy person who just doesn’t need human interaction. She has described herself as often feeling as though she is from some other planet because she just doesn’t understand the emotions of the rest of the humans around her. One description that sticks in my mind is from a New Yorker article from around 1995 or so. She talks about looking at a sunset. Other people talk about the beauty and the emotions they feel in looking at the sunset. She simply sees the sun, sinking low in the sky surrounded by many colors that are meaningless to her. She knows that other people see the same thing, and “feel” strongly about it, but she just doesn’t get it.</p>
<p>Young man we’ve known since he was in middle school recently went through the PhD admissions process in a STEM field and was invited to interview at three HYPSM schools (among others) in his field. This process involved two-three days at each school being interviewed by profs, being taken to dinners, talking to other grad students in labs and in one-on-one chats. He says that grades and GREs were never discussed. If you were invited, it was presumed you had already made that cut and had the intellectual chops. They wanted to know who HE was, what motivated him, and what and WHY he wanted to study in grad school. Grad schools are looking to invest a half-million bucks to sponsor a student for a STEM PhD. They want to know if that candidate will be a good fit for the program in which he/she will be spending 5-6 years.</p>
<p>I <em>get</em> having an introverted, intensely-focused, high-achieving kid. I have one. But even at a certain point, he looked around at the other introverted, intensely-focused, high-achieving kids he knew and realized that this was a not a healthy place to be. He forced himself to reach out and start building relationships with others. At that point he discovered what he had been missing. And no, he doesn’t not drink or party, but he does have a life. And yes, counseling also helped him find ways to do this.</p>
<p>As a parent, if I had a kid at home who spent all his time in his room studying, did not eat with us, did not interact with us, but had a life at school with friends, I’d be concerned about what happened to our relationship, perhaps a bit po’d, would entertain some family therapy to understand what’s happened, but would find some comfort that there are sustaining social links somewhere. If said kid had no friends, you can bet I’d be very concerned, would be talking to a therapist myself, and encouraging my kid to do the same. I would view it as trying to save a life.</p>
<p>Majjestic, re post 103, thank you for answering my question. Could you think about a few more questions? </p>
<p>what are “normal” topics that you wouldn’t want to talk about? I can understand not wanting to talk about anything overly personal, but what else, other than the project you all were working on WOULD you be willing to discuss ? Sports? The never ending construction work inn front of the physics building? Current events? The awful coffee/food served in the cafeteria? A book? Movie? The weather? Are there topics that you would be comfortable with, other than the project you and your dinner partners have been working on?</p>
<p>Temple Grandin is NOT an example of a successful, socially isolated person. On the contrary, she spends a significant part of her life in situations requiring a tremendous amount of social-interaction, on the lecture circuit, book tours, book signings, talk shows, etc. She also wrote a book about the importance of social niceties, called the “Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships.” In her books she relates examples of how poor social skills caused her to lose her first job and created early barriers for her, and also talks about the advice she was given and how she worked to improve herself. When it comes to “bad parents”, Grandin makes it absolutely clear that she her mother was quite strict and generally insisted that Grandin socialize with other children growing up, and that Grandin behave like a proper, well-mannered young lady for all social occasions – and Grandin attributes her mother’s old-style, loving but firm parenting style as being instrumental to her success in life. (Quotes from book: “I was told, in very clear language, that my behavior was wrong and if it was Mother doling out the message, there was a loss of privileges for sure.” “Socializing was an everyday occurance and having appropriate social skills was expected.”)</p>
<p>The reason Grandin is both celebrated and successful is that she recognized that she her social deficits were a barrier, kept an open mind, sought advice, and worked to make changes, and went outside her comfort zone. Was it easy? No - she had to think about, practice, and learn all of the little things that are intuitive to non-autistic people. But she did that. </p>
<p>Is she married? No. She chooses to live alone. But she wouldn’t be where she is today if she hadn’t recognized the importance that social engagement would play in her life and make it a top priority to address and overcome her social deficits.</p>
<p>Of course she would probably spend her time alone, but she is a person who learned even as a child with autism that life required that she respect and accommodate to the expectations of others. Her home is her own, and as she is financially successful, I am sure she now chooses to live in a house or apartment suited to a solitary lifestyle, perhaps with a well-stocked library or office where she can work, and minimal to non-existent space for entertaining guests. She can retreat safely to her home to decompress and probably spend long hours there on occasion – but that doesn’t excuse her from all of the social-engagement stuff that comes with her career.</p>
<p>As a parent, I would prefer if my kids were more average, but able to adapt socially and have good circle of friends. As human beings, we need interation with people, some may need more and some may need less.</p>
<p>I would be like Pazzagirl when visiting my kid at school. The first thing I would want to know if my kid had friends at school, not about her grades. When I go to parent/teacher conference, I always ask about how my kid is doing socially, not if she has the highest grade in her class. Last year when D2 moved to her new high school, I asked her counselor if she had someone to have lunch with. It would really bother me knowing she was sitting by herself.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why the OP believes he has “very bad” parents.</p>
<p>They seem like wonderful, concerned, loving parents who want the best for a son who has a lot of admirable qualities but is somewhat obstinate and immature in considering advice from those who have more experience with the world outside the classroom than he does. </p>
<p>Actually, I am almost surprised that the OP is not seeking to do his degree online so as to avoid even more human interaction.</p>
<p>I am introverted and cherish time by myself, i was never a big party person, but I also know how to work a room when the occasion calls for it, and frankly that’s been an incredibly important life skill.</p>
<p>Majestic, you seem to want to think the other people will care only about the project / academic topics you have in common, but I can assure you that if you can’t even sit down and grab a bite to eat with others because you can’t or won’t chit chat about the weather, sports, movies, current events, the other topics that eastcoastcrazy posted, you won’t get very far.<br>
And the question still remains – WHY won’t you chit chat about these things? Do you really have zero interest in even the basics of other people’s lives? Is it a function of can’t, or won’t?</p>
<p>If a colleague was to meet you on a project, and showed up crying because there had been a death in the family or something, what would you do?</p>
<p>Part of the problem with the OP’s attitude is that he won’t even get to the point of needing the social skills to work on a group project because without first demonstrating social skills, he won’t get hired.</p>
<p>Professors will probably consider him a drone, at best, and that could influence the warmth of their endorsement of him in their LORs…faint praise being the code for “there is a problem here…”</p>
<p>And then if the OP is lucky enough to get his resume picked for an interview, how will he compare to the other candidates interviewing for the same position? It can be assumed that those chosen to be interviewed have the hard assets required for the position…after that a lot of it is likeability and how a candidate is percieved as fitting in to the team and company environment.</p>
<p>From reading the OP’s posts, and from his choice of screen name, I almost get the impression that the OP sees himself as too good, too superior, to deign to have interaction with people because all those mere mortals are a waste of his time and not worthy of his interest.</p>