<p>Look, you have (a) a girl, (b) who is a sophomore, and (c) is thinking about colleges. That puts you way ahead of the game.</p>
<p>I can't tell you not to worry at all -- you know your daughter -- but both my kids, when they were sophomores, had "dream schools" (a couple apiece, actually) to which they ultimately applied and which ultimately rejected them. Between the end of 10th grade and those rejections, however, here's what happened: They got lots of information. They watched what happened to the kids in the classes ahead of them. They saw a bunch of schools and talked to a bunch of students. A very rational sense of self-preservation kicked in. Each of them recognized that, while he or she had a legitimate shot at the "dream schools" (they did), it wasn't anything like a sure thing, and they needed to hedge their bets with other options they liked.</p>
<p>So they did. They both made certain they would have choices -- good choices. As parents, we encouraged and supported that, but the impetus came from them.</p>
<p>I think that very few kids are really self-destructive. At the end of the day, most of them are pretty rational -- and the ones that aren't have to fight their way through a whole lot of peer pressure in order to do goofy things. Trust Nature a litte.</p>
<p>A dear friend's daughter had the same experience w/ dream school, ED deferral followed by rejection. She aimed too high and her parents were reluctant to press her to apply to more realistic choices (equal parts letting her controll the process, not wanting to hurt her feelings and their inability to imagine that anyone would overlook such a gem).</p>
<p>Though happy to get 4 offers of admission, D remains disappointed at having been rejected by all of her top choices (Wes, Oberlin, Bowdoin) and several of her "match" schs. Clearly, she should have aimed lower but - - she wouldn't listen to her parents or her GG. </p>
<p>Looking at her hs's admissons result for the past few years wouldn't have disuaded her; every year a couple kids from her sch are admitted to top LAC and even this year, of the 5 students to apply ED to Wes, the 2 boys were admitted (being boys certainly didn't hurt). She wasn't self-descructive, she just developed an early emot attach to the wrong sch and was a too optimistic about her chances. </p>
<p>Sometimes you just can't talk them out of it . . . .</p>
<p>OP, you are getting some sound advice from some sage parents so I'll try not to sound like a broken record. Others have concentrated on the admissions part of your query . I think you said
[quote]
has her heart set on attending a highly selective private school. I doubt very much that she'll be able to get in.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This other part is what concerns me - These 3 quotes shouldn't be together on the same page, must less spoken about the same kid.
[quote]
1) Even if she should get in, she'd need scholarships in order to attend. 2) I'm a little nervous about having her apply ED. .....3) I'm pretty sure that she won't get in but if she does and doesn't get any merit aid, it will be unpleasant at our house!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you are that worried about getting in because of academic stats, academically based merit aid is really not likely. I mean really, really not likely. Sorry. Maybe "leadership" or "band" or "art". But not general academic $. As has been discussed ED is a very bad idea. Letting this be the dream school ain't a lot better IMO if your read on your finances is correct. </p>
<p>After you apply the "drunken FA officer" standard to your finances (FA was so drunk they made every possible error in your favor ;)) , and you are certain that the EFC will be impossible for your family (including loans by D, plus summer and school time earnings), I can see no good coming from letting a kid continue a daydream. JMO. There may be a short term "keep their delusional hopes up" gain but I don't know if if that would have been right at my house. Feels wrong.</p>
<p>(This will probably be interpreted incorrectly but I'll try it anyway- "If your kid needs to win something to go to the kind of school they'll be happy attending, don't waste time on the dream 'lottery' merit schools. Concentrate with all your might on the more realistic ones." Good luck.</p>
<p>Rats. I got timed out on my edit. Let me try that last part again. ;) Add the following. "When all of that hard work is done, and if your D understands that she's buying $75 worth of lottery tickets when she pays her app fee to the "dream" merit school, and that she cannot go unless she gets the scholarship that she is 99% unlikely to get- I'd suggest she take a flyer or two at the "dream" schools. That is roughly what we did but with need-only schools at the end. And she got closer than we'd have thought. But she had covered all the merit bases before that, and her financial safties were in place at schools she would have been happy attending. YMMV.</p>
<p>Of evrything I've come to know , this I know the best: When building your list from the bottom up, your financial safety (a school you "like" , that gets you where you want to go, and one that you would be happy to attend) has to be the number one priority. It is the lynchpin for all future successes. It gives you the freedom to reach for more. As my D said "It's easy to find a dream school to love". As such 95% of her search was on merit aid granting good bet schools or what we call safeties around here. And she was an HYP stat kid.</p>
<p>^ Curm is being modest. His daughter was (is) an amazing student with amazing stats. He knows a thing or two about the merit aid dilemma...</p>
<p>My advice stands. Be persistent that she ends up with a good list and be realistic in finding schools that she'll succeed at and be happy at and that won't leave you broke. It's so good that you're thinking about it now -- you've got some time.</p>
<p>(One more caveat -- I think guidance counselors frequently over reach too. I don't know what's in it for them - but I suspect something is.)</p>
<p>Would I have done anything differently? I don't believe I could have--my D is very hard-headed and stubborn. I just don't think I could have gotten her to see more or different schools and, since she wanted to look in the east (and we are in CA), time/money was limited. If some of the schools that might be a good fit for your D are reasonably close to you, I would suggest trying to make a few extra short trips to visit those schools. </p>
<p>Whenever possible, I went around her (she has no clue how much) and spoke directly to her school and outside, private college counselors. This year was so tough and a surprise to parents, students and counselors, so I think we all overestimated her chances at certain schools. </p>
<p>I feel lucky she got in to the school to which she is going. It could have gone the other way, I suppose, and I am not sure she wouldn't have taken a year off. (She was WL at 3 schools, but not her favorites, and decided not to stay on the WL. The brutal day when she received 4 rejections just made her want to declare the process over.)</p>
<p>The bottom line - - at some point you may have to say "no" to the dream sch. And it's easier to say and hear "no" earlier in the process. I can only imagine how diff it would be to have D admitted to dream sch w/ aid package that req paying signif more $$ I was felt we could afford. The temptation to say "yes" and live off shoe-laces (or incur large debt or both) would be irresist.</p>
<p>As for ED, we chose to risk it, despite conetional wisdom to the contrary. My one req was that if D applied ED, it had to be to a sch that gauranteed to meet 100% of need. The final offer was fine ($2-3K over EFC. I trusted that ED sch would come up w/ enough $, figured that D was unlikely to rec a signif better offer from comprable shc and decided that, if necessary, I was willing to throw in a few extra bucks for D's heart's desire.</p>
<p>Another friend, however, rec'd wildly diff finaid packages ($9k diff in the grant award) and went w/ the best o</p>
<p>Wow, the chart in post #33 should be required reading before joining CC, for both students and parents - it is particularly instructive to pick a "student' out of the data (they're easy to track) and see what happened to them. </p>
<p>There are some really quirky decisions out there. It is very instructive to see that identical students fare differently at the same college. And, it was interesting to note the absolute absence of the mythical 4.0/2400 student. Indeed, there were only two or three 4.0s (although 55% of the kids on CC are 4.0s...)</p>
<p>As to the OP, I'd use that interest in one school as a motivator, and then I'd try to discover what she likes about the school, and search for those factors in other schools. Talk about "options."</p>
<p>As a sophomore, D was heavily influenced by schoolmates in determining her dream school, which was basically the Ivy of the month, about which she knew almost nothing. When we suggested good alternatives, she would seem convinced, then trot off to school and return with the announcement that smart people don't apply to "good alternative school" with questions about whether or not we thought she was smart. (Good alternative school, mind you, was a USNews top 10 public. We wanted to slap her pals upside the head.) All sorts of issues of self-worth and perception by peers got tied up in this, and it was very touchy.</p>
<p>To my mind, the best way to go is to agree that the dream school sounds like an excellent high reach where D could be very happy, then scheming with her about the kind of grades, scores, EC's she will need over the next couple of years to be accepted with $, as well as discussing possible sources of merit money.</p>
<p>Then move right on to explaining firmly that in addition to high reach dream school, she of course needs to pick three safeties, three matches, and a couple of other reaches, as do all sensible college applicants. (A couple of financial safeties wouldn't hurt either, obviously.) At this point you can talk with her about what she likes so much about the dream school so she can narrow down the safeties and matches according to some sort of rational criteria. If she sees you as supporting the dream school as a high reach both in terms of admissions and financial aid, but as kind of stubborn in terms of insisting that she pick some safeties and matches as well, your relationship with D will probably remain a lot calmer than if she sees you as trying to scotch the (impossible) dream.</p>
<p>Agree with Interesteddad..."The Gatekeepers" is a great book and an easy read. It will enlighten her. On the input about college visits...we stop by/drive thru college campuses if there are any along a trip route...stopped at U of San Diego when we went to Sea World a few years back. My (almost junior) once had her sights set also on an exclusive private university where the climate is much different from Calif. At that time she wanted to be where it snows!! We spent Thanksgiving in Seattle last year and it was so cold and wet (snow blew in as we were leaving!) that her interest in the exclusive school cooled considerably. Keep those options open...they go through a lot of changes. Request brochures for schools you think might be more in her range. Reality will set in sometime around spring of junior year, if not before. Good luck!</p>
<p>If the issue is ability to get in -- then I think its fine to let the kid dream as long as the parent insists on a safety that the kid is willing to attend, and often the big state U that everyone else ends up at is o.k. for that. (The kid will resist, but the fact that she knows so many other in the same boat will help with the adjustment, kind of along the lines of 'misery loves company').</p>
<p>I had the same situation during the app process as abric, with a d. who aimed for impossible reaches and interpreted my pessimism as a sign that I didn't think she was smart ... but then, lo and behold, my daughter got accepted to most of those schools. So it doesn't always result in disappointment. </p>
<p>But we qualify for need based aid and, fortunately, the higher you go in terms of prestige and selectivity, the better the need-based aid packages (in general) - simply because those high-prestige schools tend to have better endowments, and they don't compromise any of their financial dollars on merit money. </p>
<p>However, if the issue is money, and you will not qualify for need-based aid -- I think you need to be firm and clear about the money from the outset, being quite specific about the dollar amount you are willing to pay. That is, don't say, "we'll do our best but we don't have much money".... DO say, "we can contribute $X annually toward your college, you will have to get the difference in loans and scholarships." </p>
<p>In my case, I told my daughter that I would pay the COA for our instate schools only -- for an out of state private, she needed financial aid to make up the difference. Fortunately, things worked out well for her... but even after the fat envelopes arrived, she was very much aware that I had the final say on the money.</p>
<p>OK, what happens if you let them apply to a real reach ED, they are deferred or rejected and then you send out other applications RD? Do the RD schools see the ED decision and then what should be a safety or match school suddenly becomes a rejection, as well?</p>
<p>There is no reason why the RD schools would see the ED decision, spmom. The only way they would ever know about it is if a tactless alumni interviewer from one of the RD schools specifically asks the student whether he applied somewhere else ED.</p>
<p>We told our S he could go to school anywhere he wanted, and was accepted. Naturally he was excited, and like many youngsters, some Ivies were first to his mind. In his mind, the real world rates schools like U.S. News. After explaining that wasn't so, and the value of educations weren't so clear cut as in U.S. News, that many other factors played a big part.<br>
Understanding that, he then leaned toward other "big name recognition schools". Then we had to further explain to him that just as he wasn't looking at all the facts about colleges, he wasn't seeking all the facts from us.
We then told him he had misunderstood us, and told him of the dollar figure we could give him as a gift toward his education. Somehow he had pictured that we said no spending limit(kids!). We were willing and able to apply our gift to any school he chose, and the balance, if any, was up to him.
I think too many youngsters see it as a parents obligation to pay any price, for any school, anywhere. One can't get mad though; that is just the viewpoint of a young person with a limited perspective.</p>
<p>If you told your son he could go anywhere he wanted and was accepted, sounds like you didn't address the $$ up front. No wonder he was confused. I think we're all suggesting being clear up front about what's affordable.</p>
<p>To the OP</p>
<p>A friend's daughter was in a very similar situation, shooting for 2 Ivy "dream schools" her parents couldn't afford. From my vantage point, I could see that the parents had the same dream for her and were encouraging her to go for those schools in one breath and then decrying her unrealistic approach in the next. They did finally convince her to apply to some financial and admissions "safeties" and she is happily preparing to go to one of them. The parents have adjusted their outlooks too and now realize that they could not have afforded the "dream" schools without huge financial sacrifice. I have no idea whether you also have some of the same "dreams" as your daughter and are somehow conveying them to her. Maybe not. However, my friend still probably doesn't realize the confusing messages she was sending to her daughter. I think prestige is a sensitive topic to all of us.</p>
<p>We laid down the financial ground rules-parameters early junior yr. Frankly our ds had not given college plans much thought prior to that time. However once we had "the talk" about what we were willing to do in assisting him with college costs, he talked with his gc and began researching scholarships. Because my wife is a RPI alum and he was planning to major in compsci, he did mention to his gc that info and asked to be considered for the Rensselaer Medal and scholarship since he would be applying.</p>
<p>One benefit to setting parameters early on was that it allowed him to focus his search process, avoid latching on to any impossible dreams and eliminating sr year disappointments.</p>
<p>These last few posts bring up a good point--there should be a financial safety or two in your applications in case the financial aid/merit aid from your match/reach schools is not something that is financially feasible. With our second son, it turned out that his academic safety school would have been a financial nightmare, so we were lucky that he had other acceptances.</p>
<p>Those scattergrams are indeed an eye opener.</p>
<p>And students should not get their hopes up based on one or two acceptances of kids with dramatically lower than usual stats. These tend to be recruited athletes.</p>
<p>As a student, I'd just like to add that sometimes parents can be far too self-assured, and massively underestimate their children. My father wanted me to get my head out of the clouds too... good thing I didn't listen, otherwise I probably wouldn't be holding an offer to a dream school right now, which, after scholarships, is affordable too.</p>
<p>He was absolutely convinced this university was way out of my league, and still considers it mere luck that I was accepted. He even thought my safety was out of my league.</p>
<p>I probably lack some perspective because I've never been a parent, only a son. So it prevents me from coming up with any justification whatsoever for his (in my opinion) inexcusable attitude, and dismissal of my significant accomplishment as simple chance. As a son, I certainly won't be looking to him for moral support for any of my future endeavours.</p>
<p>So basically, make sure the kid knows the magnitude of the goal and the work it entails, and make sure she's got a viable plan B -- but after that please just get behind her and show your genuine support. That's one of the big differences between a good parent and a great parent as far as I'm concerned.</p>