<p>Just a quick question that I've been pondering for a while.
HPME is definitely an impressive program and I'm planning on applying (if they'll let me) next year when I start the whole college application process, but I've been wondering...can you be rejected from the program, but still be accepted into the school, maybe in WCAS? Or is it that if you are denied admission into HPME you are also automatically denied admission into Northwestern? It's probably a stupid question, but I've been wondering about it for a long time...</p>
<p>So…I’ve seen a lot of people rejected by HPME, but waitlisted at Northwestern. Is there anybody that was rejected by HPME, but accepted to Northwestern? Or does an HPME rejection mean that you can expect a waitlist/rejection from Northwestern. I really love Northwestern, and I really want to apply to HPME, but I don’t want it to completely kill my chances of getting in if I’m not accepted into HPME.</p>
<p>I understand that. I’m not saying that it isn’t a long shot for me (or any other applicant) to get into the program. I think you misread my question.</p>
<p>If you apply to HPME and they send you an application, usually it means you are qualified to be admitted to NU. If they invite you for an interview, then you are definitely in at NU.</p>
<p>If you request an application and they ignore your request, you may or may not be qualified enough to make it to NU.</p>
<p>That may be true, but I was going through the HPME thread, and a lot of people who got an application and were even interviewed were waitlisted at NU. It makes me incredibly nervous.</p>
<p>Which thread. That is highly unlikely. They will never call you for an interview if they have nt already cleared it with the admissions office. They typically receive 3000 requests, send applications to only 1000 and interview only 200 or so.</p>
<p>I went and read that thread. It looks like northwestern was playing a game knowing that HPME rejectees wont show up at NU and so they waitlisted them. It is the stupidest thing a college can do and as someone mentioned in that thread, this is the first year people noticed 8 or 9 people on waitlist from an interview list, when the people being interviewed are the cream of the crop of the graduating class.</p>
<p>I dont accept the explanation that HPME interviews and NU admissions are not linked because it is the stupidest explanation a school can put out (expecting people to spend the money to show up for interviews and then waitlisting them for regular admission is something that will hurt their future admissions).</p>
<p>They will know how bad this decision is when people turn down interviews next year.</p>
<p>That’s what I was referring to. Though I’m not saying that I am necessarily “Ivy-League material,” I wouldn’t want to apply, be rejected, and then lose my chance at admission. I’m debating on whether or not it’s worth it…</p>
<p>If you are good enough to get to interview, it means you are good enough to get into ivy league and so if you get called for an interview, you can be certain you are at a place like Chicago at a minimum. If they dont give you an application, you have a much better chance of being admitted. They admit 5500 people for a yield of 2100. To reject so many people out of a small pool of 150 elite applicants is sheer sillyness.</p>
<p>It is your choice. If you get through the first two steps, it means you are of a high caliber and can get in anywhere. if your goal is to go to NU then if you get on the waitlist because they are turning you down at HPME, you will need to ask them for an admission. The consensus is that they deliberately put these people on waitlist because they are not expecting them to show up without an HPME admission. Even people who are admitted may not show up and so it really is upto you.</p>
NU is already on par with at least one of the Ivies (Cornell) in terms of selectivity.
Most HPME admits matriculate. The yield has been ~70-80%.
This is the first year the admit rate hit below 20%. The admission has become more “random”. If they want to play games, they would have done it much earlier, when it was easier to tell who would be HYPMS admits than now.
The people being interviewed are not necessarily considered “the cream of the crop of the graduating class” by the undergrad adcom. The HPME adcom have their own set of criteria while the undergrad adcom <em>can</em> view things differently.</p>
<p>If 40 people are admitted and 32 people accepted, it is no big deal for you to call it 80% in one of the smallest samples for college admissions for probably one of the best combined programs at the moment in the country. I have seen a sample of two - one who is turning down harvard to go to HPME and the other who said she will probably turn it down to go Yale, thus angering an entire crowd of HPME applicants who were already upto their neck with this silly waitlist business.</p>
<p>Not admitting the other 100 candidates invited for HPME interview is pure idiocy. It is also BS to say that we are picking only the best of the candidates out of 3000 applicants to even send an application, then choosing the 150 best students to further narrow down the pool and then selecting 40-50 candidates out of them to confer them the honor of admission - if you are telling me the adcoms dont consider them cream of the crop, then they dont deserve their jobs. So the only thing that makes any sense is they are playing a numbers game.</p>
<p>Irrespective of 20% admit rate, NU is still admitting 5500 people to get to their 38% yield with a whopping 3300 people expected to turn it down. So you are telling me 3300 people who will be turning down NU are superior to the extra hundred who were turned down from HPME and thus put on waitlist, and I have to believe that? Whatever.</p>
<p>^That NU is waitlisting/rejecting HPME interviewees is no different from Cornell/Penn rejecting Harvard/Yale admits. Do you think Cornell/Penn are playing games too?</p>
<p>Sam - I have read some of your past posts and you seem to be very deeply involved with NU. So I suspect that you some serious influence with the school if you are not one of the adcoms and will be able to do something about this.</p>
<p>I was sure OP was interpreting an HPME waitlist (dont know that there is a waitlist but from past admittees I understood that people get admitted and even if a bunch turns the program down, no additional people will be picked). I saw there were ten people who were waiting on the results of HPME admission were waitlisted by NU it did make sense that these people may not show up and so waitlisting them to see if they are still interested before confirming made sense. If you look at the OPs first post, he/she is wondering if NU admission can get compromised by applying to HPME and the question does make one wonder. </p>
<p>So as a parent of a future applicant, I should tell you this whole waitlisting process of candidates who were invited for an interview at HPME reflects very poorly on NU. I personally know graduates of the HPME program, current students, and also people who have turned it down to go to Harvard and Stanford. My view is that NU has this program only to lure someone who might end up in HYPS otherwise because everyone who I know has been cross admitted to at least one school in HYPS (one who turned down HPME two years ago was admitted to HPS and waitlisted at Yale). So it is insulting to any student (and the parents) who has been interviewed for HPME (the student and parents probably spent a grand or two for this trip and I assume your medical school professors time is worth a lot more in interviewing them) to be considered waitlist worthy after all that. </p>
<p>To answer your other question - People already believe this to be happening in the ivy league. The kid I referenced above was accepted by every single program he applied to (HPS, Columbia, Penn, HPME, USC combined, Chicago, Wash U) but was waitlisted by Yale. It is hard to believe that Yale and Harvard would n’t have 500 or more cross admits each year - but mysteriously, it never happens! However, HPME is an integral part of NU and if someone was good enough to be interviewed, he/she should have been good enough to have been admitted before being called for an interview.</p>
<p>You have a reasoned argument and, if you are correct, I would be just as angry. But I’ll tell you that I’ve met Chris Watson, the Dean of Undergrad Admissions. He’s incredibly well respected, probably the most straight-shooting, stand up guy I know in the field. He came to Northwestern from Princeton where he was, similarly, Dean of Admissions. I just don’t seem him tolerating games the likes of this. </p>
<p>With Northwestern selectivity this year being what it is, with median SAT scores of admitted students near 1500, this just might represent the new reality here. I wouldn’t hesitate, when this process is over, to write him if you still have these concerns. You might be surprised to find a receptive ear.</p>