I feel bad, realy realy bad

<p>garland's post #92 says it all.</p>

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<p>Your assumption is that ALL of these 150 students with 35/36 ACTs are applying for the same scholarships and to the same school. That is something you do not know. Some of these students may already be accepted ED to other schools. Some may not have OSU on their radar screen. </p>

<p>And $20,000 is far less expensive than $50,000 (cost of attendance is close to that at Harvard, for example).</p>

<p>Agree with garland and entomom. Time to cut Dad II loose. If he is a troll (and I don't think he is) it makes no sense to continue responding to his posts: It just encourages him to continue baiting other posters. If he's not a troll, it makes no sense to continue responding to his posts: He is clearly not listening.</p>

<p>At the beginning, I felt this was a troll. But everyone said, "no, it's a cultural thing". OK. Now after umpteen new threads started, basically all with the same theme- over the top, extreme, to the point of ridiculous- I just do not buy into the credibility. Too argumentative, too much starting over and over, too much stereotypical display, too much everything! Too much repeating. Obvious.</p>

<p>First I don't think Dad II's D's accomplishment indicate any "lack of effort" at all, even though he suggests this. Second, many of us here are paying $20,000 for our children at tier 2 schools (and tier 3) gladly. Third, many of us are also making adjustments and sacrifices to even meet our EFC.</p>

<p>Seems some of the other schools in play are Duke, Cornell, Vanderbuilt, UWashington. And this girl has the credentials to apply to all of these schools absolutely, including the ones at the tippety- top. If she is accepted at the need based schools such as H or Tufts, they will likely meet the remaining need, Dad can already afford to pay the EFC...problem solved. And I can from experience say that Tufts aid package provided funding right down to our EFC (grant+stafford+work study). The difficulty may come at schools that won't provide to the EFC and don't provide enough merit so that D can attend. Sounds a bit like financial panic here. It happens alot, especially if it's your first time playing! That is why the many threads here about how to search out good schools with merit are so important (see curmudgeon posts to begin this tutorial!). This may require treading into tier 2 territory. So be it.
Mine turned down two higher ranked (with slightly better aid packages) schools for one with good merit that weighs in around 50 in the ratings game. It was what she wanted....we let her. And guess what, she was right, the opportunities afforded her at school # tier 2 have outweighed anything she could have expected at higher rank # 1 and #2. But all this has been said many many times before.
My only other comment: my kid full recognized that she needed to pursue other activities such as comm service and dance to balance her life and keep herself physically and mentally fit and happy. I'll bet that Dad II's daughter is doing the same, and if so...she is wise and knows herself as well as being academically gifted.</p>

<p>I think its all about "prestige" and going to the "best" and impressing other people, not about the D at a;;</p>

<p>It just hits me. When did I ask for any help here? I felt bad and vented why I felt bad. </p>

<p>Nothing you say will chance the outcome of DD's applications. They are done and over. </p>

<p>Thank you for sharing your thoughts. "after Ten Rounds with Jose Cuervo, I lost count and started counting again... ... "</p>

<p>My d had stats, both test and GPA, lower than your d. She got very nice merit scholarships from schools in the top tier of schools that give merit aid.</p>

<p>I'm sorry i fyou don't want to hear it, but I'm concerned about your daughter. The high-achiever, happy kid with lots of friends that you describe, but whose achievements can not be good enough because there's always "something" that doesn't quite measure up - this is, just on paper (and no, I do not know your d) a recipe for teen suicide. </p>

<p>I'm actually surprised (although it's probably one of these "cultural things") that your d hasn't rebelled before now. "No matter how hard I try, it's not good enough, so why try?" Be glad that your d is still talking to you, and pray that once she is successful and independent, she does not turn her back on you.</p>

<p>DAD II -- if you just want to vent, fine. But it is not fair to your daughter for you to threaten to go back on your agreement to finance the State U because you are mad at her for not spending more time preparing a scholarship application that she did, in fact, turn in.</p>

<p>I think you are very misguided. It is your daughter's "job" to meet deadlines, like turning in applications and scholarships. It is up to her to figure out how to meet them -- it is not right or fair for you to criticize her work or preparation style if the deadline was met. I write for a living and I honestly have to say that often my first draft of an article or paper written up against a short deadline is much better than what happens if I overthink the task and spend a lot of time with preparation and revision -- maybe your daughter, like me, also does her best work under pressure. </p>

<p>I think you are a very caring father, but I feel sorry for your daughter that she has to deal with your heavy hand in her affairs. I have been very clear with both my kids over what I expect -- but I have also backed off and let them make their own choices. I have been richly rewarded because both my kids have been soaring higher than I ever imagined -- but sometimes it required some faith and patience on my part. </p>

<p>Please do not argue with your d. --she did her part and met the deadline. You are letting your own fears take over, just like you did when your daughter had an 800 on the SAT math. Here's something new to chew on: maybe your daughter is smarter than you are, or at least more efficient. Maybe she doesn't need to spend as much time studying or worrying or preparing to get things done properly as you would. I know that's hard for a parent to recognize -- but it seems to me that in a way you are demanding that your daughter budget her time in the way a less capable person would -- for example, setting aside 6 hours to do what she knows she can do in 2.</p>

<p>You aren't helping. I can guarantee you that if you argued with your daughter before she finished her essay and application -- if she wrote a bad essay, then it is because of the emotional upset you caused, not lack of preparation. Why would you try to upset her when she has an important task to complete if you really want your daughter to succeed?</p>

<p>Dad II, If I were your kid I'd go to State U whether you paid or not. I would not put up with your unfair vacillations. </p>

<p>On Commitment -
1) maybe your daughter COMMITTED to working the event that delayed her work on the application. If you insisted at the last minute that she go back on her commitment to stay home and do the application, then you were unreasonable. Good for your daughter, for honoring her commitment.
2) If Dad II COMMITTED to paying for State U then he should honor his commitment. Period.</p>

<p>Dad II, a suggestion: you should stop by State U soon and visit some of the hard science graduate level classes. You might be surprised at the number of foreign born students pursuing graduate degrees there.</p>

<p>Chevda, maybe it's not the daughter who ought to be on suicide watch. </p>

<p>There is some good advice here. With all due respect to everyone's best intentions, perhaps enough is enough?</p>

<p>And Dad II, your problem is that you're drinking to country music. Try some good blues instead!</p>

<p>"Sometimes I get impatient,
but she cools me without words
And she comes so sweet and so plain,
my hummingbird and have you heard,
that I thought my life had ended
But I find that it's just begun,
'cause she gets me where I live
I'll give all I have to give
I'm talking about that hummingbird
Oh she's little and she loves me,
too much for words to say
When I see her in the morning sleeping,
she's little and she loves me
To my lucky day
Hummingbird don't fly away" - B.B. King</p>

<p>Dad II, things will all be all right.</p>

<p>I don't think Dad II is a troll, at least by CC definition. I think he is partially just venting, but it's frustrating Dad II, because you seem to be getting a concept and then we start over at square one.</p>

<p>Both of your kids are clearly talented and much more motivated than you give them credit for being. I guess that's the hard part. It seems to me like your D is even doing all the scholarship stuff, but maybe not on your schedule. As I said, I can understand your frustration with this because I was unreasonable with my son last year on his applications. Parents here helped me to calm down and let him be his great self--we want to help you to calm down and let your kids be their own great selves too. Deal?</p>

<p>My friend's dad is just like you. She is getting married in a few weeks. Her dad<br>
won't be walking her down the aisle. As soon as she had the means to be independent, she cut ties because she realized that she was happier and healthier without his expectations over her head.</p>

<p>Dad II - Do you think that every one of those 150 who scored better also have 4.0's, 10 AP's, etc. and also are applying to In-state U? They don't, and aren't. Your D has an excellent shot at a schollie, HOORAY. And no, one point isn't that big of a difference for those scholarships, I have seen people with 32's get full rides to UMichigan and 36's not. So your kid has as good a shot as anyone. LAY OFF!</p>

<p>Apply to MSU - You will get In state tuition, Honors College, a Professors Assistantship(so she can do research from frosh year), some other scholarships, and so on. If she had applied earlier she could have done the ADS scholarship competition in order to compete for other scholarships.</p>

<p>Alabama and UCF offer near full rides for NMF, and I've been very impressed with the Honor's College and specialty Honor's programs at Alabama. Many schools offer full tuition, including Fordham, Texas A&M, and so on. New College of Florida if she is a liberal arts kid.</p>

<p>And to emphasize that people can be successful out of any school - Average starting income for Cornell AEM graduates(their business school) - $52,000. Average starting income for Michigan State Broad (UG, not MBA) graduates - $47,000.</p>

<p>And sorry, saying you work hard is commendable, but it does not mean you are working harder than anyone else. My dad worked 80 hours a week(like I'm assuming you do), my grandpa worked 3 jobs and went to college at the same time. My Uncle got his MBA while working a full time job at GM. And this work has allowed my generation to benefit, as we are upper middle class now.</p>

<p>And don't look down at that in state University. Your daughter may be able to go someplace 'better', but look into the offering of Honors Colleges. MSU's allows you to get out of pre-reqs and take Grad courses during undergrad. So, someone is graduating with their BA and MA at the same time, after 4 years. Another person I talked to was a Marshall and Truman scholar. And this is at the #2 state U in the state.</p>

<p>one issue that I can't believe hasn't come up in three pages of this thread. First of all, I do believe DDII is entrenched in some hard-core cultural traditions that are probably thrown in his face every time he has a conversation with a family member. I suspect, he, himself, fears rejection and shame from his siblings and their families if his daughter does not achieve the same standards as other family members. In our country, we value individuality over loyalty to family, which he has a hard time understanding.</p>

<p>That being said, we all agree D's stats are remarkable. The issue now is scholarship, and the OP is not adhering to the same values we are. I agree with everyone here that his relationship with his daughter will most likely suffer in the long run if he does not find some kind of compromise. I'd like to suggest that he look at the ECs his daughter has participated in from a different light. DDII, those ECs may be what causes your daughter to stand out above all those other 35 and 36 ACT scorers. One poster was correct in saying that not all of those with 35s and 36s will have taken nearly the challenging schedule that your daughter has, either. Your daughter has the whole package, not just the scores. A couple of years ago, our high school's valedictorian only got into state U; he had no extracurriculars. I don't think he even got any scholarship at state U (from what I heard through the grapevine). He obviously didn't have the well-rounded traits that schools and scholarship committees look for. </p>

<p>In fact, I'm sure others will confirm this, but I suspect that if your daughter's applications were based on her scores, rigor of class schedule and rank, but she had no ECs, you could pretty much write all those top tier schools off the list. Some students will even go so far as to join many, many clubs over their high school careers, but barely participate in any of them (those kids can have a difficult time getting good teacher recs). What schools are looking for are students who show a passion and commitment to the activities they do participate in, and the schools know that student X with a 36 ACT, 10 AP classes, and ranked in the top 1% cannot be fully active in 20 different clubs at school. Because all that passion and commitment translates to a prospective student who will not only thrive at their school, but be passionate and commited. The same goes for scholarship committees; most of them know how to read a fake.</p>

<p>
[quote]

I told DD - you refused to prepare for the tests, you refused to spend more time working on your essay (often completed at 11:59 on the deadline day) because it does not effect you. You think you could still go to college. The difference is in the amount I have to pay. Why do I have to suffer because you want to do what you want to instead what I told you to do? </p>

<p>Sorry that most of my threads on CC are about money. Because I have been so poor and have never had a time to enjoy my life. Now that DD had the potential to get higher test scores and better writen essay for better chance of merit aid but choose instead to work on others like Key club activities.

[/quote]
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<p>DadII, I can related to what you say. But I totally agree what Northsarmom said. You have to calm down, you must know how much pressure your D going through, how many work she had done to put into this college application process meanwhile she has to maitain the certain level of their school courses. It's not like the way back when you apply college (here I'm guessing your background I could be wrong, don't feel offensed though), fillup one form, take up one national testing, the process done, just wait.....Dose it occure to you that she wants to help in school's fair instead of take another competetion related to college admission may be kind of way to relief the pressure? (I find people sometimes like to do mindless simple tasks when they are dealing with the pressure). The last thing you want to do at this point is push her over the edge. Just relax enjoy the last a few month she as a staying home girl.....As you said, you've been so poor, bet things would not go worse than that. Just think this she is your daughter!</p>

<p>Re: Harvard's financial aid initiative...the talk is about 10% of income...I have yet to see or hear of anything that would indicate how Harvard intends to handle home equity, savings, etc. Personally, I would bet that a $150K income will carry an EFC of $25-30K once those other items are thrown into the mix. That's better than a $50K FAFSA EFC w/a $150,000 income, but don't be fooled into thinking Harvard will be cheaper than an in-state without merit $$. If anyone has cites to the contrary, I would love to see them. I've been looking for same, but not finding anything more specific.</p>

<p>Dad II -- One of the most important parts of merit $$ consideration is how a student handles the interviews. Being an academic drudge doesn't win over those who are looking at candidates. These big-time scholarships are essentially there to help attract the best and brightest, who can then be ambassadors for the school. It's a two-way street. Being able to talk passionately about one's outside endeavors is a big plus. Studying two months for another 20 points here or an ACT point there won't make your D any more competitive than she already is. And she is.</p>

<p>I recall Curm posting about how his D's community service and involvement outsode of school were critical in the scholarships she won (and the fine choices she had at the end of the day). I've shared that philosophy with my own S and some of his friends, and they took that info to heart.</p>

<p>I'd be proud of a D who lived up to her community commitments -- even after the applications have been sent -- because she felt the need and <em>wanted</em> to do so.</p>

<p>This might not go down well with DadII this week, but another thing to understand is that for some students raised in traditional and ethnic homes (I have one, too), when they want to do something for their school community, they are expressing some of the good values learned at home. They are responding to their schools, which promote "we are your school family" mottos. They try to engender a sense of community loyalty, as will the colleges. </p>

<p>It's important to the students' mental health throughout the school, too. When this feeling of involvement and belonging among the students breaks apart at a high school, bad things can happen such as at Columbine. The principal from Columbine has written that the most important lesson to be learned is that all the students need to feel involved and connected to their school community. Otherwise people feel lonely, marginalized, unwelcome and it's not nice to attend school.</p>

<p>This might be too far a stretch for you, but consider taking pride that she already feels connected to her school community, too, and on occasion does things to help that spirit involve others. Some of those kids don't have strong homes, and some do, but all need a sense of belonging to something a bit larger than themselves and their personal families. </p>

<p>They achieve, like your D or close to it, but in a good high school you will also find a group, team sensibility. That goes together WITH high achievement and competition. In future years it brings success in a workplace, lab, office or hopsital eventually. </p>

<p>I have now 2 recent college graduates and 1 college freshman. No manual came with their birth, but over time we are figuring things out. We have some home values that are not found at their schools, and that is a lot to think about for us.</p>

<p>I have noticed that my kids achieve and are friends with other achievers...but in fact they earn their most exciting work/career opportunities now by either by coming to the attention of peers and being nominated by them, or an older person observes that they have the respect and friendship of their peers. </p>

<p>In order to work anywhere (eventually), your daughter will also need and is intuitively developing some peer skills. These will be important to her in the long run for career. In part, that's why admissions and scholarship applications want to know about her extra-curriculars. It's not just fluff (the Key club, the tech work on a play). It demonstrates she can work with others. </p>

<p>How many laboratories have only one person working in them? Not on this planet. So if you need to understand why on earth she is going off to work at a high school volunteer table, first off she might be able to write the essay in 2 hours not 6, but also consider she is correct that these, too, are skills for a successful career future. </p>

<p>She sounds a bit like my D, who can also drive me up a wall sometimes, but in fact has a deep inner wisdom about what she needs to get to the next level in her life. Your D sounds worthy of a lot of respect, given all of her achievements so far. I think this four-month wait periods is hard on everyone.</p>

<p>I'm with doubleplay -- There's something wrong with the language of these posts. Almost as if someone is intentionally planting certain spelling and grammatical errors while at the same time reeling off lots of CC jargon.
And I still can't get past wondering about the likelihood of a traditional Asian father spending time on this forum and actually posting on it.</p>

<p>^agree</p>

<p>Really odd tone throughout his posts.</p>