<p>I am not sure the payments stop if he is a fulltime student. That needs to be looked into.</p>
<p>I agree that you should be seeking real time advice. That said, my dad died when I was 20 and my whole world shifted. I was "daddy's little girl" and my sister was close to my mom. Twenty six years later, I am still pretty much out in the cold on that end of my life. But I've made another life for myself and it isn't as relevant although still hurtful.
I promise you that things will get better. It is hard to be drop-kicked into adulthood. </p>
<p>My opinion is that your mom is in her own self-protective mode and is being driven by a desire to avoid guilt. </p>
<p>Is there someone in your dad's family who you can turn to? The idea isn't to talk about your mom but rather for you to develop close relationships with family members that can maybe help fill the void. I have a cousin that I am closer to than my own sister b/c we don't have that history. </p>
<p>I can't help but think we online parents are overstepping our bounds here. Please also seek some real time advice.</p>
<p>All of the above advice is very good and I haven't much to add-what about other relatives (on your father's side?): aunts, uncles, older cousins--anyone there whose help or advice you could seek?--not instead of but in addition to professional and/or clergy and/or school-realted counseling.</p>
<p>DVMMOM: That's an excellent suggestion about Dad's side of the family (or former co-workers). He mentions that his mom feels her "logic is correct, because she has the rest of the family to back her up..." I think that's why many of us mentioned other adults (teachers, counselor, etc) for support and guidance.</p>
<p>Please look into having yourself declared "Independent" for purposes of financial aid. Then, your mom's finances will not even come into the picture. Look into this as soon as you arrive at Penn, or even sooner. Any documentation you can assemble about the home situation will probably help. Sounds as if you have a good case. If you are "independent" you cannot live with your parent for more than 2 weeks per year or accept more than $200. I think the social security money would not count, since it is not hers. Financial aid would treat you as an independent adult if you gain the classification.</p>
<p>I checked into being declared independent. Apparently Congress has determined that parents should be primarily responsible for college educations of their children. The federal independent standard for college aid is quite specific and stricter than for tax matters (news to me also). However, individual colleges have their own policies.</p>
<p>Here is UPenn's: <a href="http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/home/acrobat/2005-2006/undergrad/independent_status_pros05-06.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/home/acrobat/2005-2006/undergrad/independent_status_pros05-06.pdf</a></p>
<p>legendofmax, as I've followed some of your other posts, I've noted that you are a very bright, hard-working and sensitive young man. I only want to throw my support behind you and behind the most important recommendation that others have given you. GO GET HELP! (And not just from this board). Go to your school's GC, any other adult family member who is not as dysfunctional as your mother, a local teen center with counselors. This is way too much for a high school senior to bear alone, even one as bright as you. Get the help. You deserve it.</p>
<p>Wow-just telling this story out loud to another person is going to be one huge emotional undertaking. You have so much to be proud of- period! You sound like you are on the right path - no small accomplishment given the circumstances. Do you have at least one teacher with whom you could share this story? To get through the next few months, maybe you just need a bit of respite from the place you now call home. A regular dinner invite or a place to go study might help get you just enough peace to get by for awhile. I worry about your life going through another major upheaval right now- and with college just a mile or two up the road I already see (a good ) one coming. </p>
<p>I encourage you to sit and take an inventory of teachers at your school- including those from previous years. Certainly one of them sticks out as a caring and resourceful sort who could help you work through this situation. And don't be afraid to tell the story. </p>
<p>FWIW- I grew up in a home with some pretty sticky issues that I could not share with a soul. The day I moved to college was one of the happiest I can remember from those times. And my life is a very happy one now. You will survive this- I base this statement on the character sketch that you have provided. Enduring this situation will provide you with superhuman strength during times when others around you would feel certain defeat. Hang in there. I will be thinking of you as the kids at my local high school graduate in a few weeks--and my heart will be swollen with pride for a bright, strong gentleman.</p>
<p>L.O.M. -- I had no idea it had gotten this bad! </p>
<p>Is there any possibility that you remind your mother of your father in strong ways and therefore represent a "conscience" that she doesn't want to face right now? If she was participating in a clandestine relationship before your father's accident (it was an accident, right?) she may be plagued by guilt and your intellect may threaten her; she may feel silently indicted by you, whereas your younger brother, who perhaps is not so adept on piecing things together, lets her feel more comfortable with who she is choosing to be.</p>
<p>Long way of saying that this is probably about her, not about you, so as tough as it is, it's neither your responsibility nor within your control.</p>
<p>Others seem to have put you on the path toward teasing out the details of the SS benefits.</p>
<p>At least you have that fabulous girlfriend!</p>
<p>I can tell you as a receiver of social security benefits for my children that they do end at 18, even if they are in college. (it used to be different, but changed, my son's ended at age 18). yes, the money is for your support, but your mom taking $3000 monthly for the house payment, where do you live?? I am not meaning to be sarcastic, but she is using you and your brother. social security needs to be notified and she needs to account for the money. if you have no food in the house, that is NOT using the money for support. I would not drop this issue, it is and could be a significant source of money for you to utilize. Is she working or has she just taken a free ride on your social security. Anyway, all of the above is correct about how you will do great because you have weathered the storm, done well in school and despite your circumstances have kept a straight head and persevered. congratulations.</p>
<p>Social security payments stop when the student is over 18 whether they are a full time student or not. This was not the case many years ago...at that time the payments did continue if the kiddo was a student. That is no longer the case. I agree with others...you need a trusted adult to speak to regarding your situation...someone at your school, a clergyperson, or a community lawyer who will help you now that you are 18. The issue of what to do now is most important, but you will need some guidance in terms of your future as well.</p>
<p>Mcdeb - thanks for posting that link - just so that others who are posting here will know - and to avoid them giving mistaken advice, it shows that Penn's policies are particularly stringent:
[quote]
The Federal Policy on Independent Status
You will be considered independent for federal programs if you meet at least one of the following criteria:
· you were born before January 1, 1982
· you are married
· you are or will be enrolled in a master's or doctoral program (beyond a bachelor's degree) during the 2005-2006
school year
· you have children who receive more than half their support from you
· you have dependents (other than your children or spouse) who live with you and who receive more than half of
their support from you, and will continue to receive more than half their support from you through June 30, 2006
· you are an orphan or ward of the court (or were a ward of the court until age 18).
· you are a veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces ("veteran" includes students who attended a U.S. service academy
and who were released under a condition other than dishonorable).</p>
<p>The University Policy on Independent Status
You will be considered independent by Penn, and will not be required to submit parental information, if you are 26 years old
by December 31, 2005 and are applying for University-administered funds for the first time.
However, if you meet the Federal policy for independent status, but are not 26 years old by December 31, 2005, the
decision to waive parental data is made by our office on a case-by-case basis. Students who are not required to submit
parental information have typically:
· not been claimed as dependents on their parents' taxes for at least two years, and
· demonstrated self-sufficiency for at least two years.
[/quote]
So basically - even if Legend could meet federal standards (say, by marrying his girlfriend) - Penn would want that parent data. </p>
<p>To Legend: if Penn's award is sufficient for the coming year, then I think you should definitely go - taking a gap year to work will only end up leaving in you in a worse situation. </p>
<p>But you need to know in your own mind that you may not be able to complete all 4 years at Penn. So make the most of your coming year, and keep your grades up -- you simply may have to transfer somewhere else for financial reasons along the way. This isn't easy and it isn't fair -- but that's the kind of thing that happens sometimes when a family is hit by death or serious illness. It is one of those life tragedies that changes things radically that you have to ultimately accept - in your case, unfortunately, you have lost your mom as well, due to her inability to cope with the loss.</p>
<p>Do look outside your family for emotional support-- as well as exploring options for financial assistance. Have you talked with your counselor or school principal about what is going on at home? I do think that if people at your school understood what was going on, they would rally to help.</p>
<p><<mcdeb -="" thanks="" for="" posting="" that="" link="" just="" so="" others="" who="" are="" here="" will="" know="" and="" to="" avoid="" them="" giving="" mistaken="" advice="">></mcdeb></p>
<p>Huh? What mistaken advice? And be wary of copyright law when cutting and pasting from a website especially without citing or providing a link.</p>
<p>Oh, and when you see the word "typically" or another qualifying word within a policy rather than "must" or "shall" - that implies there may be exceptions to the rule.</p>
<p>Mcdeb - at least one person here advised that Legend ought to take a year off from school to work to establish independence. </p>
<p>I can see from Penn's policy that they are MORE, not less, stringent than other colleges. Penn is saying that while the FAFSA considers 24 year olds to be independent - they want information from 25 year olds, unless there is a showing of 2 year's financial independence. Legend is 18 and still living at home. There's not much of a fudge factor there.</p>
<p>Please don't attack me for trying to help -- I appreciate that you found the link, but this thread is full of well-meaning people giving ill-founded advice - such as telling Legend that his social security check will keep coming while he is in college. Legend is in a situation where he is probably feeling overwhelmed and confused -- I just want to make sure that he doesn't get mislead. </p>
<p>The most important thing for Legend at this point is that he has a good grip on reality and plans accordingly -- because it is obvious that there's no parent in his life to do this stuff for him. So he needs facts and not speculation or false hopes. He can and should talk to the financial aid people at Penn about his situation -- but most colleges are pretty strict about the parental support thing.</p>
<p>Quote: I am not sure the payments stop if he is a fulltime student. That needs to be looked into. End Quote</p>
<p>This isn't exactly telling him his checks will continue. I have a client who is 18, still in high school (supposedly) and the checks haven't stopped. That is why I was unsure of the exact policy.</p>
<p><<please don't="" attack="" me="" for="" trying="" to="" help="" --="" i="" appreciate="" that="" you="" found="" the="" link,="" but="" this="" thread="" is="" full="" of="" well-meaning="" people="" giving="" ill-founded="" advice="">></please></p>
<p>That's irrelevant to my post. I provided a link to the school's policy. It is far more risky to cut and paste selected information from a website. You're way off base implying that my post gave misleading or incorrect information.</p>
<p>FYI, In his last thread, max took CC advice and contacted Penn Fin Aid. The Penn FA officer told him to come in to the office whne he arrived in September and Penn would sort him out; ie he has a personal contact there who seems to have the situation well in hand.</p>
<p>My checks end this June but we receive them retroactively. I've been signing off checks to my mother so I only have three left on the way not signed, which equate to roughly 4500.</p>
<p>With our circumstances and financial documents, Penn has it set up so I am eligible for about 33k in aid. I think my "expected contribution" was 2k and my mom's was around 8 or 9k but she doesn't want to pay that. I was also eligible for about 3k in work study and I also had the option of the Stafford loan. I don't know how all of it works.</p>
<p>My main problem though is that I don't know who to talk to in terms of adults. My guidance counselors at school don't know anything in this realm -- I'm not saying this to be mean, but they only know how to write recs and fix schedules for people at school. What type of adult should I talk to about this situation?</p>
<p>A friend of mine once told me that you cannot be independent legally until you are 24 or something? I don't remember the details but apparently colleges understood the loophole pertaining to people just "claiming to be independent" so they only had to use their own information for financial aid documents while their parents would still support them under-the-table, thus lowering the price tag. So I don't know how all that works either...</p>
<p>Is there any document online that explains that SS money is to be used for food, education, etc?</p>
<p>And yes dizzymom I have gotten into such arguments with my mom. When I bring up the importance of a good education, she assumes that I am trying to act "superior to her" and condescending just because it is an Ivy League school: "Just because you were accepted to a bunch of Ivies doesn't mean I am going to drop everything to help you. Look at John and all these other people who did well in life without a college education. You don't need it. Maybe some hard work would be good for you, for once". </p>
<p>I understand that all of this is just one side of the story but I am trying to be as objective as possible. Yes, I have said mean things to her as well but it was out of anger, but she was angry too. However, for the past two months or so, I have tried to maintain my volume level and keep things mature, but then she continues to blow up at me and so this is why I feel that the irrationality may not be on my end.</p>
<p>PS There is nobody in my family I can really turn to. None of them think college is necessary and they're all on my mother's side. I know I seem to be focusing on my mom a lot but I feel that she is the main obstacle here -- if we can come to some sort of agreement it would be for the better. I know our family has the money to at least help support the college efforts partially even with my dad's death -- I even offered the idea of borrowing money from mom instead of thorugh the CityAssist plan that Penn offers. She doesn't think I would ever pay such a thing back however. She assumes I would have a "Well you owe me this money ANYWAY" mentality.</p>
<p>Sorry if I am rambling :X</p>
<p>I don't think you should borrow from your mom. Student loans are manageable and interest rates are low...I think it's a bad idea to owe your mom anything at this point; it would just create more fights. </p>
<p>I (legend's gf) did book a flight for him to come to New York this summer and work, so I hope things are getting better... of course, if any parents here want a summer intern at their office, feel free to contact him ;) </p>
<p>You are all kind and supportive parents; thank you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You're way off base implying that my post gave misleading or incorrect information.
[/quote]
I didn't say that, or anything close to that McDeb - I thanked you twice, said that OTHERS had posted potentially misleading information, then posted the information. If it is a "copyright" violation then that's my problem, not yours - but the stuff taken from the FAFSA requirements is in the public domain, and the rest is probably under 100 words, usually considered fair use. </p>
<p>I don't know why you seem to be so resentful of someone else trying to help, or why you would assume a "thank you" is a personal attack.</p>