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I heard later that there were rumors that this man and I might be an item...if you were fooling around behind your spouses backs would you do it by going to church?????
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<p>LOL, well there was Marla Maples and Donald Trump....!</p>
<p>Yes, a church is such a great place to meet clandestinely...;D</p>
<p>C, re friends doing this, it's hard to understand. I suspect this time is so stressful that they're just not thinking clearly and don't even have any idea how they sound, and they do not mean to be rude. I had a little of that too, and at the time was just amazed -in a state of disbelief actually. What also threw me was right before sending our daughters off for for freshman year, mothers who I'd known for years sat in my living room and sobbed, crying because they were sending their daughters off and would miss them so. To a person they all had other children at home, and husbands. I have no husband, no other children, and would be left all alone with one small cat, which they well knew. I remember at the time thinking "how insensitive...do they not realize how this sounds to me and how very different their lives are going to be compared to mine once our daughters leave for college, considering they at least still have other children at home, and they have their husbands..." but ultimately I concluded they didn't mean to be hurtful and they just weren't thinking clearly, this being such a stressful time for everyone.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, re my being bad, yep, I guess so. Slightly off topic, when we first bought our home, one neighbor in particular was a terrible gossip and inflicted us with all sorts of negative comments on everything under the sun, but mostly about our religion. She knew we are catholic because she could see D's school attire, anyway, she did all in her power to know everything about us, and a few times we even caught her peaking in our windows. She would also make snide remarks about catholicism, leave Planned Parenthood flyers on our door, etc. </p>
<p>For a while we tried "smile, ignore", but, that didn't work. Then I tried confronting her nicely and firmly, but she would just deny and appear confused, and still the verbal attacks, the gossip continued. We left for mass every Sunday at 9:45 a.m., and she would be waiting in her yard, and make some remark to us about how we were inappropriately dressed for church (we always wear jeans, our thinking is God is probably too busy to care if we dress casual) and so on...</p>
<p>Anyway, having two phone lines in the house, we decided to have some fun. We knew that on nice days with the windows open this neighbor would hang out very close to our house and more or less listen while pretending to do her yardwork. So I would use the first phone line to call the second line, my daughter would answer, and then stand by the window and yell as loudly as possible variations of things like "mom, it's your probation officer, I think they're calling to tell you if you're going to be charged with that murder..." and so on. It was hilarious watching the neighbor react by running into her house where we were sure she would proceed to burn up the phone lines. Of course, we knew this meant she was going to gossip to everyone what she heard, but, she was already gossiping about us anyway, so, why not have some fun and scare the living daylights out of her...</p>
<p>I suggest you rent Legally Blonde and perfect the line and delivery where Reese Witherspoon says "Like it's hard?" (or something like that) when her boyfriend is shocked she got into Harvard Law School.</p>
<p>"Wow. I had no idea she made it look so easy!" </p>
<p>But really, since they are your friends and all, can't you just say, "You're joking, right? You don't REALLY think that's true, do you?</p>
<p>LTS, I like your sense of humor!</p>
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Previously confident that so-and-so would not blossom, achieve, whatever, it becomes very difficult for them to reconcile reality with their wish-fulfillments.
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epiphany, I hear you on this. Some "friendships" are predicated on one party feeling superior to the other - and when that changes, the relationship is over (and blessedly so, though it can still hurt). </p>
<p>And why are grandmothers so willing to sell their grandchildren short? If one of my kids ever tells my MIL about an accomplishment, Grandma immediately responds with, "Well, (insert name of grandson here) just did this or that wonderful thing" without even seeming to hear what my kid said. And my own Mom, whom I love dearly, is always shaking her head and pronouncing that my nephews "aren't college material," when they're wonderful, funny, athletic, witty boys who just haven't decided yet to pay attention in school. Could it be that grandmothers are more attuned to their daughter's children than they are to their son's?</p>
<p>caligali, your acquaintances are insensitive, petty, and just plain wrong. Feel free to tell 'em I said so.</p>
<p>It is scary how this can work with the mom jealousy. I have three kids and a family who were old old friends have three kids, approx same ages & matching sexes.</p>
<p>D1 of the friends family is an amazing athlete and stellar student- dramatically so. My D2 is the same. THEIR D2 had some insecurities as she compared herself to her older sister, but she/they really became fixated on my D, who was also the best friend. I realised I had a serious problem when, at age 10, trying out for an elite sport traveling team, the Dad was heard badmouthing MY D continually to the coach. Not character aspersions, but just picking apart every little thing about the way she played the game. He was overheard by another parent who told me....I took steps to avoid direct one to one comparisons whenever possible and was happy to have the opportunity for D to attend a different HS. We did not change schools because of this, not at all, but it was one thing I noticed would be nice, to avoid that pressure of constant focus on D. D & her friend are still friends. D is a college athlete, the friend is not, it was a silly comparison as they are different kids with different talents.</p>
<p>I did make a huge effort to support and encourage and wish the best for all our teammates on all our sports and to avoid any competitive feelings in that genre. After a very short time of making a conscious effort to learn about every kid on the team and encourage them all to their personal bests, I realised it is a much more enjoyable way to be a part of sports. Great sportsmanship is a love of the game and seeing all good players develop and all succeed. The same goes for other ECs and academics.</p>
<p>Somemom's story resonates with me, since similar things happened with my kids. Which makes me wonder if this situation with the OP's friends is just exactly the same thing, happening a bit later, and absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Because I was certainly surprised and shocked at my best friend's behavior when it happened, even though my kids were elementary and middle school ages at the time. If it didn't happen then, then perhaps it would have happened in high school. If not then, then now, when the kids are choosing colleges. Doesn't make it any less sad; just means there wasn't a big enough trigger prior to now.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the thought you have put into your responses. I want to preserve my old friendships as they are valuable to me for many reasons. My daughter reminds me that I always taught her that you can't change people, just accept them or move on. Or, as I read somewhere, what you don't find loveable in your friends you need to find funny. So, I will think to myself "Like it was hard?" (thanks mimk6) and keep the thought to myself.
What do you think, will that work?</p>
<p>Yes, I think it will work. I'm keeping my friends who are sometimes difficult and they're keeping me though I'm sure I am too.</p>
<p>" had good friends, parents and students, make remarks such as her high school was easy, her teachers must have favored her, she chose an easy major (not true, it is very competitive) or she somehow slipped through"</p>
<p>Those people are not friends. They are people to avoid.
I don't see any reason to bother to let them know about your D's achievements. Move on. Now that you see their true personalities, find people who really are friends.</p>
<p>I guess I am getting to old to have "toxic" people around me....why bother?</p>
<p>Caligali, I think this is a flash in the pan, something that will quickly pass. I think - just like those friends of mine crying in my living room - we are far more comfortable with our close friends, and so will say things to them that we would never in a million years say to anyone else, or give them glimpses of our insecurities and weaknesses and personal agonies that we would never, ever reveal to anyone else. We are also more comfortable "letting loose" with our close friends because we understand that no matter how ugly or inappropriate our behavior, our friendship will sustain the damage and our friends will be very tolerant and forgiving. I think that's what you're experiencing here - these are close friends; they're going through a time that is very stressful, the college admissions process actually being the very first time a parent has no control over the outcome and impact to their children. Almost certainly they have no clue what they're saying, or how impactive it is, because they are so focused on their own worries, frustrations and fears. </p>
<p>Given that, it probably doesn't matter what you do or say - they're likely not really going to "hear" you. But on the other hand, if these were casual acquaintences or quasi-strangers and you did not care anything about the relationship, I'd be very tempted to have a riotous amount of fun, play with their heads :)</p>
<p>latetoschool, I think you are right about old friends letting you peek at their insecurities. Over many years these three friends have been good people and hopefully the mean-spirited comments were just blips. Maybe this college process has become too parent-involved and we lose proportion.</p>
<p>Also, I agree with citygirlsmom that toxic people are not healthy to associate with. But what is toxic? As I've said before, I am not perfect and don't expect my friends to be. When does flawed cross into toxic?</p>
<p>Good question, caligali. Over the past few years I've had to decide that a few friends were toxic, and I did so quite reluctantly, hating to let, and telling myself that my discomfort was somehow my own fault. I bought a book called, When Friendship Hurts, that outlined various types of problem friends. I discovered that three of my friends fell into three different categories: "The Loner," "The Manipulator," and "The Controller," and I found it quite interesting to begin viewing them through these lenses. I haven't totally given up on any of these women, but I understand better where they are coming from and why they act the way they do, and I now have a much easier time holding them at arm's length in order to protect my own feelings.</p>
<p>I see toxic as putting down other people to elevate yourself</p>
<p>It is better to say nothing at all, or just ask how a child is doing then to make snide remarks</p>
<p>If you leave conversations with someone and more than than a few times you feel bad, feel like you should have defended someone, or "spoken up", or retorted because they said something that was hurtful. that is toxic</p>
<p>A oneoff comment, well we all do that, we all error, but if it is a pattern, where you are on guard for yourself or your child when you see these people, then there is something wrong</p>
<p>There is no reason, necessarily to kick these people out of your life, maybe just not share so much of it with them</p>
<p>As it is a fact (see my post 3 in this thread) that the poster's daughter is doing well academically (and socially) at Top-Notch University, I believe it is beneficial to share these facts in a casual non-braggy way with the perceived rumor mongers as these same individuals may spread this good news to their friends as well. Silence is golden some times, and silence can convey "door mat" (as Dear Abby would say) at other times. I think silence in this instance conveys door mat.</p>
<p>Good Advice.</p>
<p>I like superstarr's advice to give them a one-time pass. I have seen these friends deal with job loss, dying parents, learning disablities, rebellious teens, etc. and not fall apart. Maybe the college smackdown has just been too much for them.</p>
<p>I will not be a doormat and will speak up clearly if this sniping ever comes up again, but for now I am going to let them slide.</p>
<p>I wonder if all this is kind of a stream of consciousness on the part of these friends not meant so much to put down your D as to explain their own kids' rejections in a way that explains things or saves face for <em>them</em>. In other words, in their own minds it was never about you or your D at all.</p>
<p>From their point of view, maybe they felt their kid really WAS treated unfairly in the admissions process. Maybe they are beating <em>themselves</em> up in hindsight feeling that their kid was disadvantaged by not selecting a certain major as opposed to another, or that the school in question doesn't take <em>their</em> school's grading policies into account or whatever. Maybe they never made the mental leap to realize how all of this came across to you.</p>
<p>I think that most of us feel that there are people who are worth it and those that aren't. It's also human nature to overlook the faults of people who we really like (and have proved their loyalty and friendship over time) and emphasize those of the people we don't. It sounds as if you value these relationships, so I think your decision is a wise one!</p>
<p>"Some folks take a long time dealing with the loss of the imagined future."</p>
<p>OldinNJ, this is just so insightful. We've been dealing with this with regard to Zoosersister (I've mentioned the mom who attacked my husband) and you hit the nail on the head. This is so exactly it. ZS has earned the accolades and more that she had imagined for her child.</p>