<p>How much more competitive IS out of state admissions? I realize that it will obviously be harder than in-state, but the OOS acceptance rate is 21%, which isn’t bad compared to Cali’s 26% rate (although I do realize many people in Cali apply just for the hell of it, whereas most people OOS don’t). How hard is it to get in to Berkeley OOS if I don’t plan on majoring in engineering - i.e., what schools would it compare to as far as selectivity goes? Is it still mainly numbers/essay/a little bit of EC driven, or do ECs play a much more significant role? And finally, is there any data on the average scores of an OOS applicant? Thanks</p>
<p>I'm not sure if you could find out the average scores just for oos apps. I would say that if an oos is not planning to major in engineering, that person would have a higher chance of getting in. I would think that the school marks and SATs are the main factors concerning the admission to Berkeley.</p>
<p>Would you think rank mattered more than SAT? Eh, my SAT is mediocre, but I have a good rank and EC.</p>
<p>School record (class difficulty/grades) generally trumps rank, because while rank can be an indicator of a good student, many schools don't rank weighted, or some schools simply aren't that competitive. I know that Berkeley has traditionally placed a good amount of weight on SAT scores (for people in Cali anyway), so your grades should be good to make up for a lack of SAT scores.</p>
<p>UCs do not take rank into consideration (although they did for the ELC program, but even last year, they said that you really weren't guaranteed a spot in any UC if you made it into ELC because of the budget cuts...).</p>
<p>ranks don't count much at all since more and more schools don't rank. All UC's are primarily numbers-driven, gpa and SAT + SATII scores, with bonus points for family life stuff under comprehensive review.</p>
<p>ooh okay. yeah my GPA and SATII's are..decent, and I'm ranked pretty high in a competitive HS, but agggh i HATE standardized testing. haha shows im not smart-just hard working. argh.</p>
<p>Actually rank doesn't count period- not even slightly considered- not even asked for on the application. And being able to pass the SATs doesn't mean you're "smart"- passing the SATs only means you have the knowledge of passing the SAT style exams collegeboard puts out through "hard work" from practicing them over and over and over, or you have the resources that others don't (i.e. money to take SAT classes) to learn the ins and outs of the exam. SATs in no way, shape, or form will determine how you will do in college (of course unless you really really bomb it like not even quadruple digits...then you might begin to wonder)- because the materials tested, especially on the SAT I's do no correlate to pretty much anything learned in high school or college. That's why it is being revamped, mainly from heavy pressures by the UCs (and with their number of applicants, collegeboard couldn't afford financially to lose such a friend).</p>
<p>wow okay. so you think its all GPA and EC?</p>
<p>No, he didn't say that - he said they aren't an accurate determinate of how you will do in college, not whether they will be used in admissions. Essays also play a decent role in UC admissions from what I've seen, and probably moreso for those who aren't from Cali. </p>
<p>Also, is there a way for OOS students to bypass the a-g requirement (namely the "visual arts" portion)?</p>
<p>'rank' is a qualitative factor, for those in-state, since the UC's know who is in top 4%. Other than that, rank is a non-factor.</p>
<p>ohnose: as a state school, there is absolutely no way to bypass the VAPA requirement. Anyone applying without the MINIMUM requirements will be denied, or deferred (can fulfill the VAPA requirement in the summer prior to matriculation).</p>
<p>Actually, SAT scores matter quite a bit from what I've seen. I'm from Cali, so we send a good amount of people to Berkeley and UCLA each year. Last year there was a girl that had 1600 SATs but wasn't in the top 15 in her class and the only EC she had was CSF, and she was accepted to both schools.
Of course, there are the students who slack off in high school still attend UCLA, UC Berkeley, and UCSD through the community college admit system. A friend of mine had 1200 on his SATs and a 3.7 GPA (unweighted), and he will be attending UC Berkeley after two years at a community college.
UC admissions confuse me sometimes.</p>
<p>Of course SATs are a major factor in admissions, I just described the exam because ames1010 was trying to make the false link that a low SAT score but high gpa meant you weren't "smart" and were just "hardworking." Yes California does send a "good amount of people to Berkeley and UCLA each year" on account of the fact that they are California public universities ; P. gcangel: The girl you described doesn't necessarily have to be in the top 15 of her class to have a high gpa and if CSF was her only EC, either she isnt telling you everything or she might have some sort of outstanding circumstance (life hardships?) or she was just luckily one of those that squeaked by (probably the "isn't telling you the whole picture" one). You're friend that's transferring, what's his weighted GPA? What's his community college gpa? That'll probably paint a more wholistic picture for you as to why he got in.</p>
<p>The SATs are much more important than GPA. But the transcript is the most important thing. It takes into account the level of courses taken, the grades in those courses, and any trends from grades 9 to 11.</p>
<p>I have a nother question, and although it's pretty obscure, any help would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Does Berkeley consider family income/circumstances/first generation college for out-of-state applicants as well? My father earns 40k/year, but my mother is on disability (manic depression, diabetes, advanced hepatitis C, addicted to painkillers at one point, among other things), and 40k doesn't do a whole lot under an avalanche of medical bills. My mother being ill didn't so much directly affect my academic performance last year as a sophomore as it did my attitude in general - I didn't do anything, as I was confused by the entire situation and just generally not in a good place. As a result, I didn't really get my **** in order until this year (junior), and don't have much in the way of ECs - only some volunteering for Meals on Wheels (20-40 hours last summer, maybe more this summer if I have the time), tutoring students in Calculus (this year 100+ hours), President of the Chess Club (end of this year and next year), Summer Ventures in Science and Mathematics (free four-week program in the summer organized by the government, obviously oriented towards science), and doing some research/internship at the local marine lab (hopefully in the upcoming months or starting senior year), possibly something else during the summer, as well as a few very small scattered awards and such. However, my urge to study biochemistry was spurred by my mother's situation, and I hope to show this through my essays. Will my situation at least somewhat make up for my huge lack of ECs (compared to people on CC anyway), or will it still be a longshot for me to get in?</p>
<p>For the record, I expect my UC GPA to be 4.46ish (grrr, Spanish III teacher had to give me a 92.3 :P), and the rigor of my courses has risen sharply from sophomore-junior year. By senior year I will have completed all AP classes, and all honors except band (because I'm not in band, duh), and anatomy I/II (aka Honors Coloring), as well as probably taking Calc III at the local CC. My SATs will hopefully the equivalent of 1450+ (I scored a 1440 on a practice test with no prep, and I am starting to prep), and should score 780-800 on the IIc, a high score in Physics, and not sure about the third one. </p>
<p>Thanks for the input!</p>