Indian students - help out an American dating an Indian?

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hi there- I've posted this in a couple other forums but I really want the opinions of Indians my age.</p>

<p>I am dating a guy from India - we met at college in the US and hit it off immediately, and now we're in a serious long-term relationship.</p>

<p>This is the first time I've visited him in India [I am in Delhi as I type] and I am appalled to see the way servants are treated around here. I'm sure you know about Indian servant culture, with pretty much every middle to upper class family having a servant, a driver [chaffeur], etc.</p>

<p>In case you [reader] are not Indian / are unfamiliar with the situation, India's job market is so bad that these servants are basically trapped in these jobs, and could probably not get a different job if they quit the one they have. So basically the family can treat them however they want.. so it is customary to have your driver sit in the parking lot for hours on end while you go to the mall, have a doorman who literally spends the whole day sitting outside the door in the blistering Indian heat, etc.</p>

<p>This is normal to Indians [including my boyfriend], but I find it appalling. I know I have no right to judge them on their culture, but I just can't understand how you could treat another human being that way. We had a big fight about this yesterday - I told him he should treat his servants like human beings, but he thinks that the servants aren't treated that well, but that he is powerless to do anything about it.. even with regard to his own servants. He feels that it would be an offense to his parents if he were to try to change his behavior, so he just goes along with the system. His argument is that the system will change slowly from generation to generation, and that's enough for him.. but it isn't for me..</p>

<p>What do I do? I can't just accept it and move on, I'm the type of person to go out and do something about it... but how can I make peace with my boyfriend? He's very set in his ways and so am I...</p>

2

<p>It’s not his ways. Its the way things work in India. I don’t how the boy’s parents treat their servants. Unless they are doing something derogatory, I would consider as normal in India. You will have to accept this. Your boyfriend might have a lot of things in US that he isn’t comfortable with. Its a difference of cultures. You both need to work it out together.</p>

3

<p>lol @ the title. Well, i suggest you all just try to appreciate - or tolerate - each other’s unique culture and customs. Has it ever occurred to you that the majority of indians (i.e. hindus) do not agree with eating beef?</p>

4

<p>Most people in the US don’t have servants. At best we have a “cleaning lady” who comes in once a week or so. In a smaller town, her kids go to school with ours, and she sings in the same church choir that we do. When we find ourselves in a society where there are long-term employer-servant relationships with clear social class distinctions, we just don’t know what to do. This isn’t who we are. This isn’t how we live. This isn’t how we imagine that we’d treat our household staff if we were so fortunate as to have them.</p>

<p>While you are visiting your boyfriend, and are a guest in his parents’ home, you can observe the situation. You are free to contemplate changes you would make in the staffing of the home if you were in charge. But you aren’t going to be able to change much of anything for the time being. If you empty your own wastebasket, you may actually upset the balance and cause emotional trauma for the person whose job it is to empty that wastebasket.</p>

<p>If you do end up settling in India, when you have your own household you will be able to assess your own needs for staff, and you will be able to determine how you treat your employees. I would suggest that you make contacts within the US and Canadian expatriate community for some ideas on how they have adapted to the employer-servant situation. They may have some suggestions for you.</p>

<p>I have never lived in (or even visited) India. However, I was in Latin America for eight years where a similar tradition holds. My mother-in-law generally had a live-in housekeeper, and often had a driver who worked days. Most of my friends had either live-in or daily maids. Happydad and I never had any household help. It worked for us. Only you can know what will work for you.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>

5

<p>India has a very rigid caste system. No matter how well you do, you’re stuck in the caste system. People seldom marry out of their caste system and usually consider people of the lower caste systems to be inferior. As long as this view is held by the majority of Hindus, servants will not be treated as you want them to. Although there is a small minority which has overcome this caste issue, it will still take time</p>

6

<p>I’m not indian, but here’s something.</p>

<p>There are some cultural differences which we can simply accept as, well, ‘everybody’s different.’
Some European cultures don’t place as much of an emphasis on timeliness as we do. You’re allowed to be 15 minutes late.
eh, w.e.
Some cultures place much greater emphasis on industriousness, respect, politeness, and honour, particularly asian cultures.
hey, it’s something we can accept.</p>

<p>Treating other individuals like they are sub-human is not such a difference. It is a fundamental conflict in morality. it’s not something you can agree to disagree on. If someone thinks it is perfectly acceptable to treat other human beings like animals, even if it is something that is entirely acceptable within that person’s culture, it is an issue you certainly have the right to be frustrated with and unaccepting of.</p>

7

<p>the caste system has been more than 2000 year old. dont expect sth will change.
if u come to a new culture, accept it coz u wont change it.
dont u think its better fot those people to work and have cooked meal every day or than to be on the street like stray dogs?
at least ur boyfriend and his family provide paycheck and meals to those ppl. think what they would do if they werent servents. i think its not hard to guess.
good luck
;)</p>

8

<p>IBfootballer - I couldn’t have put it better myself, so I won’t even try.</p>

9

<p>“India has a very rigid caste system. No matter how well you do, you’re stuck in the caste system.”</p>

<p>But i’ve thought that was for the old days. With the internet revolution, and with more Indian people going abroad, don’t you think Indian society has made some changes lately</p>

10

<p>“if u come to a new culture, accept it coz u wont change it.”
Bush and the Western empire wanted to change the Islam Culture. That’s why American soldiers have been all over Middle East , hehehe :)</p>

11

<p>India is great,all indians are my brothers and sisters, is a quote that doesn’t apply to lower-income-class society in India. If you feel they are being mistreated in a way just because they are required to do their chores, you are completely wrong maam. It is not the owner but the servant who decides to work and be paid, so i don’t see any reason why not to exploit him/her. However, there a limits of exploitation, if you are feeling uneasy about the whole thing than just go and talk to the servant you have been stating about and ask for his/her views? why is he/she doing it? Is there anyway you can help… It might take some time to get accustomed to Indian life, so take your time and see how it goes.</p>

12

<p>With over a billion people in India and a majority being Hindu, the ‘new’ generation is still extremely scarce. The majority is still in the caste system. The highest caste, the Brahmins are educated people but they consider it very embarrassing if a Brahmin girl marries someone from a lower caste. It’s just the way things work there.</p>

13

<p>Servant culture is a little wierd in India. I play cricket with my servants and friends and to some people that is a big “no-no”. While I can see that americans and people from other cultures would find that leaving the chauffer in the parking lot is inhumane, but that is the culture here. The servants are mostly uneducated and very very poor. If they would not be working in some one else’s house, the servants would probably be in their village from where they would be employed in a factory, where they would be in an even worse situation. By giving them a home and a regular income these people are saved from a much worse fate.
The culture here is very different from the west. While the caste system is slowly disintegrating, it will take a lot of time to undo the damages already done. Getting rid of a 2000 year old system is never easy.</p>

<p>My advice- Stick to your boyfriend. Its not his fault, its his culture. Both of you will have to make some adjustments for your relationship to work. After all,he comes from a country that is two continents, one ocean and two seas away !!!</p>

14

<p>my advice- stick with him, it’s not his fault</p>

<p>i’m indian and i have been to India a few times… that’s just the culture there and everytime i go i feel the same way.</p>

15

<p>You cannot change the way things have been going around there. Even if his family is willing to change you might still feel as bad when you see other Indian families treating their servants that way.</p>

<p>My advice is: Give yourself a little more time and space to think about it. Since this has been bugging your conscience then ask yourself whether you can live with it guilt-free in the LONG term. Cos if it’s being a huge problem to you now, then it will still be a problem to you 5, 10 or 20 years later.</p>

<p>Sometimes love is not everything. Sometimes you’ll just have to choose; for some it’s between love and family. In your case, it’s between love and conscience. :&lt;/p>

16

<p>Indian here: Yes , its a rough situation. But thats the way it is, hopefully , you dont plan to settle here. Its just a different culture, although its not the same in every household. In mine , for example, I often eat lunch with my driver. That being said, it may appear very bad to you, but the situation isnt really that bad, these people are respected… atleast at my place. If thats not the case, just accept that that is the cultural make-up of your boyfriends family and accept it as it comes. Sure, you might bring it up as a topic on the dinner table, provided his parents are open minded. If not, you’re lucks run out , it’d be best to just tell him as im sure hes very understanding. There are some differences in every culture. For eg: Cows are sacred in India. No self-respecting, religious Hindu would be able to bear so much beef that you , as Americans, consume. Yet, we adapt and accept it as part of your culture. Its all about the compromise IMHO. That… and I’m a 14 yr old so dont completely trust me ;)</p>

17

<p>I’m an Indian here. My first suggestion would be NOT to start judging him so fast. There are many reasons Indians behave the way they do towards servants and lower class people. Many of them are not justified, some are. I’m going to try to summarize what I’ve seen here, what my personal opinions (on how ‘servants’ should be treated and how people treat them). In some cases I may sound like I am justifying this behavior. I certainly do not intend this, I am only trying to give you a perspective of an Indian may think about these issues.</p>

<p>First, middle-class and upper-class people in Delhi tend to have more of a “superiority complex” than people from the rest of India. You’ll notice that many people don’t like south Indians, and many Hindus don’t like Muslims, etc. There are many exceptions, and I’m sure your boyfriend is one because of his American experience. So don’t judge India by what you see in Delhi.</p>

<p>Coming to how “servants” are treated, there are a few things you need to keep in mind when you look at their situation. Firstly, a great deal of their poverty is inherited. Secondly, to most Indians, “servants” are not in poverty - beggars, drought-hit farmers, bonded-laborers, child laborers, etc are the ones is real poverty. Don’t expect an Indian to be as sympathetic towards a “servant” as you are. Indians have seen people die of hunger, usually because of poverty. A servant, in comparison, seems privileged to be able to live without worrying about getting food to eat. You should expect, and only expect, an Indian to treat a “servant” like a human being, hopefully an equal human being. Nothing more.</p>

<p>One of the reasons Indians can be apathetic to the problems faced by lower-class people is because we’ve seen far too many of them to be able to believe that we can help. Charity may feel pointless because helping one person doesn’t really help - or so many think. Hold on tightly to what you believe, but don’t start judging your boyfriend because of this.</p>

<p>One of the things you’ve most probably heard is, “There’s no point being helpful to them. If you give a beggar a rupee, he’ll save it for a drink, cigarette or an intoxicating substance or the money will be taken from him at the end of the day by the ‘gundas’ who control him. He isn’t benefited in any way”. If you’ve watched “Slumdog Millionaire”, you’ve seen the guys who handicap people just to be able to get more money. It’s a reality - a really big reality. My family, personally, gives out food to beggars (like biscuits) so that it can’t be misused. To the lady who comes home to clean everyday(we call her a helper), we try our best to treat her like an equal. If she hasn’t already eaten, we prepare more of the breakfast we eat and give her some. She is addressed politely (I address her as an superior - “aap” instead of “tu”, and my parents address her as an almost equal). We still know however, that we cannot simply give her Rs. 1500 a month and not make her do any work. So she sweeps and mops, washes the dishes, etc. To that extent, she isn’t an equal. But if we didn’t employ her, she’d earn 1500 less a month. That’s a third or forth of her salary gone.</p>

<p>Drivers. We’ve never really had a driver, but I do know that it is hard to treat a driver better. Taxis are expensive and some people think they’re too rich to use public transport. This leaves employing a driver to drive their car as the only option (don’t ask why they can’t drive themselves, I don’t know). Now I don’t see what is wrong with having them sit in their car while they shop, etc. The driver, when compared to over 70% of India’s population, is in a great place. He just drives and gets upto Rs. 10,000 a month! That is quite a lot of money - laborers, farmers, beggars, “maid/servants”, (some) waiters, bus conductors and most unskilled workers get paid far less. The driver also isn’t likely to complain that he has to sit and wait. Now it may be painful when you see it, but when you know that he himself knows that this is probably the most luxurious way for him to earn Rs. 10,000 a month, nobody can say a thing. It’s hard to expect people to treat a driver better. A driver should be the least of your concerns if you are worried about how lower class people are treated.</p>

<p>Making the situation even worse is the fact that people are worried that their “servants” steal, that drivers drain their car batteries by leaving the AC on in the car while they wait, etc. My dad’s reasonably new battery drained in a few weeks once when he found out (from a security guard) that the car cleaning person rests in his car with the AC on after cleaning all the cars. These issues bias us. I try my best not to let me previous experiences influence the way I look at certain people. Not everyone is as self-aware. Further, if this has been drilled into your head since you were a kid, it’s going to take a couple of generations before people start becoming aware of these biases.</p>

<p>I feel that it is hard to change the way your boyfriend thinks. I strongly feel that you should live in India for a few weeks atleast and absorb the general sentiments of the people around you before you start judging your boy-friend. In these weeks, think of how people can be treated better, what seems reasonable to expect and what doesn’t. Try not to think of “how it happens in America”. That kind of stuff isn’t applicable here. I think that at the end of a few weeks, you’ll be in a much better position to be able to decide what you want to say to your boyfriend. You’ll know what things you still don’t approve of and on what areas you’ve changed your mind about judging your boyfriend. I’m sure that at least some of your concerns are genuine.</p>

<p>If you do plan to settle down in India, you should spend some time looking at how your boyfriend’s family treats “servants” more carefully and see what exactly it is that you don’t like. It is hard for you to do much other than make those changes within yourself and try to convince your boyfriend.</p>

<p>If you have any specific question that you don’t want to ask publicly, PM me.</p>

<p>Note: I strongly disapprove of the use of the word “servant”. I know people who have a live-in maid, but that is because of a very rare and very well justified reason that I won’t share here. In return, they treat her like a family member. In other cases, I’d like to refer to the the lady who sweeps and mops as a helper.</p>

18

<p>It’s the same in Africa…</p>

<p>It’s his culture, you have to learn to accept it. There are many things I find weird about Western culture, but I’ve grown to accept it. Our differences make us unique.</p>

19

<p>Indian Student here. Maea, my family tried to adopt a girl who was forced by her mother to work as a maid. That child worked at our place, and I don’t think that any one wud have believed she was not our sister, had they not seen the way she dressed and the tell tale Bengla-texture of her skin. This was when I lived in Lucknow. Now I live in New Delhi. we had another girl that started working on her other’s instructions at our place, and we gave her the same treatment. You know what happened? She started taking unnecessary holidays, saying she didn’t wish to come and such, started to play with our T.V and laptops. Due to her, I lost plenty of my documents in just a blink. And then, as if her continuous holidays weren’t enough, she ran away altogether a week ago. I should be studying, but I spend about 1 hour daily to wash the utensils, or chopping vegetable.</p>

<p>The thing is, the servants, maids, etc. in India need to be treated this way. When we show that we treat them as equals, they think that they can do whatever they wish, and get away with it. I think you will be surprised to know how many people are victimized by molestation, murder, thievery, and other crimes directly due to servants. These people have low class attitude even after they start living in better working conditions. We had one maid who used to knick off me and my mum’s clothes, including the under ones. When we caught her, she confessed she was a prostitute and used the women undergarments to lure men in a local red light district. And her husband earned pretty well too, he had a local dairy house.</p>

<p>Even Indian work culture isn’t really good. It is rare to see a servant not forcing his/her child into this servant system. The fact that the situation of women has not changed is also a factor. I had a maid who sent her son for medical studies, and forced her daughters, one of who was actually much more eager abt studies than her brother, to work with her, and get married the day they turned 18. They go as far as to contribute in human trafficking in India by selling their daughters off to men. If you ever read abt Devi system in South India (Or was it west Bengal…hmm I dun remembr) you will know wat I am saying. The maids here let themselves get beaten by their hubands who just thwart the oney for their dose of booze. And you know the funny thing? These children let their parents force their will on them. They don’t c anything but money, and for that, they can go as far as creating a scandal. The small working class here doesn’t value themselves enough to earn respect from their employers. I still remembr the two woman who worked with us, yet upheld their pride as well. They were reasonable women, and deserved the payment they got. My mother used to increase their salary herself, they didn’t need to say. But I am yet to see any such servant here. If they don’t value themselves as humans deserving honor, how can we honor them?</p>

<p>This is just my take on this topic. I think you should calmly consider your boyfriend’s place as well. You won’t believe how my mother got worked up when she heard that US uni have drug scene too. But then, after a little while, she slumped and simply said that US is a different country. If something is there which is consider wrong, there must be a strong reason for it. Same is with servants’ position in India.</p>

20

<p>I know such late replies might not concern the OP now, but I disagree with meghna.</p>

<p>I think you should be more careful before making such awful generalizations. No matter which part of the world you go to, there is no group of people you will find that you can make such generalizations.</p>

<p>

I think you, meghna, will be surprised to know how many people have had positive experiences with household helpers that have changed their perspective of poor people and helped them recognize that they need to have the same humans rights that we do.</p>

<p>To draw American parallels, I think that if you’re afraid of an African American man roaming on the streets of a large American city at night, you’re as guilty as the who harasses his/her household help for no justifiable reason.</p>