College student needing advice on how to deal with cultural differences

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi parents, you've been helpful to me before so here I am again. I am dating a boy from India - we met at college in the US and hit it off immediately, and now we're in a serious long-term relationship. </p>

<p>This is the first time I've visited him in India [I am in India as I type] and I am appalled to see the way servants are treated around here. For those who are unfamiliar with the Indian servant culture, pretty much every middle to upper class family has a servant, a driver [chaffeur], etc.</p>

<p>The thing is, India's job market is so bad that these servants are basically trapped in these jobs, and could probably not get a different job if they quit the one they have. So basically the family can treat them however they want.. so it is customary to have your driver sit in the parking lot for hours on end while you go to the mall, have a doorman who literally spends the whole day sitting outside the door in the blistering Indian heat, etc. </p>

<p>This is normal to them [including my boyfriend], but I find it appalling. I know I have no right to judge them on their culture, but I just can't understand how you could treat another human being that way. We had a big fight about this yesterday - I told him he should treat his servants like human beings, and he said that I had no place butting into his culture.</p>

<p>What do I do? I can't just accept it and move on, I'm the type of person to go out and do something about it... but how can I make peace with my boyfriend? He's very set in his ways and so am I...</p>

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<p>You say that your boyfriend sees nothing wrong with the way servants are treated and nothing wrong in his behavior toward them. I agree with you that servants ought to be treated as human beings who are earning their living by providing services to you.
If your relationship is going to be long-lasting, you and he need to find common ground. While you cannot change his culture, surely he can change his behavior. And if he is unwilling to do so, you need to ask yourself whether he would be willing to change for your sake. There are other aspects of Indian culture that will more directly affect you, in particular gender ideology.
You need to have a very frank talk with your boyfriend; you also need to ask yourself where you want to live eventually. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>Wow. I truly understand what your saying. I am an Indian myself but have lived in the US all my life so when I go there and see the “servants” treated like that it makes me feel soooo bad!</p>

<p>You’re absolutely right about the people there have their own ways and not wanting to change. While I wish I could completely alter their lifestyles at times to what I think is “right”, I know it’s unreasonable.</p>

<p>The only thing I can suggest to make yourself feel better is to show your appreciation to the workers. Buy them gifts, give them money, talk to them, tell them thanks for their help. Bring the doorman some water when it’s hot or buy a lunch on your way out for them. </p>

<p>They will appreciate that more than you can imagine. Give it a try :)</p>

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<p>hardworker, the thing about that is that my boyfriend’s servants only speak Hindi, and my Hindi is awful… I only know the very basics. As for giving them money… firstly, I don’t have any non-American money (my boyfriend pays for everything while I’m here and I’m paying him back), and secondly, I think they’re well paid anyway… by the standards here anyway…</p>

<p>And what kinds of “gifts” would I buy them? I am open to suggestions - that seems like a good idea… might make me feel better anyway…</p>

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<p>Since you say you are in a serious long term relationship, I think it is important that you check on his expectations regarding the roles and duties of his future wife and the roles and duties of his mother’s future daughter-in-law. Understand where he and his family are coming from so you can move forward with your eyes open, well aware of the differences between your culture and his.</p>

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<p>marite - I think I slightly miscommunicated my boyfriend’s views. He thinks that the servants aren’t treated that well, but that he is powerless to do anything about it… even with regard to his own servants. He feels that it would be an offense to his parents if he were to try to change his behavior, so he just goes along with the system. His argument is that the system will change slowly from generation to generation, and that’s enough for him… but it isn’t for me…</p>

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<p>I agree with hardworker that calmly modeling the kind of behavior towards servants that you think is proper would be a good idea. It may also be the most constructive way of “commenting” on the situation to your boyfriend. In doing so, you would also presumably be true to yourself. Perhaps observing your behavior will cause your boyfriend to think about the cultural attitudes he has accepted in the past. Confronting him and accusing him–and by extension his family and friends–of inhumane behavior may be more likely to cause a defensive reaction than to create the kind of change you would like to see.</p>

<p>Relationships are difficult in general. Cultural differences make it more difficult. Trust me, I have experienced plenty of problems with New England/Midwestern cultural differences! :)</p>

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<p>Go to a bank and change some money!</p>

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<p>Maea, you are an obviously good person in a difficult situation. Having done work in many parts of the world, I found that, for all its faults, the USA really is a far more democratic, egalitarian society than many of us give it credit for being. I hope you and your boyfriend discuss his attitudes on such topics as women working before and after motherhood; division of domestic responsibilities; the independence given to children of both sexes; and how you would treat anyone working for you in the US as a maid, babysitter, landscaper, etc.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

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<p>I’m curious about how the bf behaves in America. Would you have guessed this would be an issue?</p>

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<p>Youdon’tsay: I really wouldn’t have guessed. In America, he behaves a lot like me… he treats everyone with respect, very polite, very willing to do things for himself… he doesn’t expect people to do stuff for him, and if they do he is very appreciative. I didn’t even know he HAD servants until about a week before I came here, and even that surprised me, but I was okay with the concept. But when I saw how they are treated… ugh.</p>

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<p>OP:First let me tell you that I have first hand experience with cross cultural marriage in the sub continent and you are welcome to PM if you like.
Your initial reactions to the cultural differences is to be expected. But you need to be there for a while to understand how everything works. It is to your bf credit that you are there and visiting his family, and in many ways that shows that they are quite open as Eastern families go. Although I am sure you are not wrong in your assessment of how the servants are treated, you need to put it in the context of the culture you are in, not judge by your cultural standards. As you say they seem to be well paid for the situation.
As far as gifts, do not give gifts while you are there, but when you are leaving you can express your appreciation for their help to you by a tip of money, or clothing or cloth ( a suit piece for shalwar kameez) from the market. Give it directly to them. On a day to day basis, you simply treat them with the respect you feel they deserve. Language is not needed. A smile, a head nod . a simple thank you, learning their names is enough to show your respect for them as people.
Rather than make a judgment, ask your bf to explain how the system works, try to understand.How long have the people worked in his family? Do they have accommodation there? Do they get their meals also? Take a real tour of the city with your BF to the poor areas. In order to really understand him you need to understand the culture, not just be a tourist.
There are so many positive aspects of having a cross cultural relationship. But you have to be comfortable, and there has to be mutual respect for each culture.</p>

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<p>Being married for many years, I know that getting along with in laws of even the same culture often requires a husband to stand up to his parents on behalf of his wife and his own beliefs. Will he stand up to his parents if they have a different view on raising your children? Or whether his mother should come live with you after a baby is born and what her authority will be? Or your working? Or where you live or he works? Or will that, too, be something he expects will change slowly generation after generation?</p>

<p>I also would be concerned that, before you arrived, he did not tell you about the servants.</p>

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<p>yabeyabe - he did tell me about the servants about a week before I arrived. It just never came up before then - the kind of thing where he was so used to it that he assumed it was something I knew… and I just never thought about it. So I’m not worried about that part.</p>

<p>I have talked to him about the major things like working, children, etc… he is open to a lot. He thinks the wife can work if she chooses, and he is open to living in another country when he chooses to marry.</p>

<p>But I haven’t really considered what his parents’ role will be once we marry [assuming the relationship goes that far, etc]. I will have to talk to him about that. I don’t have a problem with parents living with their kids, but controlling their lives? I would definitely have a problem with that…</p>

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<p>Have you read Holy Cow?
[Amazon.com:</a> Holy Cow: An Indian Adventure: Sarah Macdonald: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Cow-Adventure-Sarah-Macdonald/dp/0767915747]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Cow-Adventure-Sarah-Macdonald/dp/0767915747)
While not specifically about the household worker issue- it does illustrate ways to improve relationships with staff
( I read it in preparation for my daughter to go to India- she has been there since Feb)</p>

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<p>I think a lot depends on whether this long term relationship will be happening in the US or in India.</p>

<p>I also highly recommend “The White Tiger” which was a Man-Booker prize winner.</p>

<p>Both India and the US are complicated societies with a lot of disconnect between “what is” and “what ought to be.”</p>

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<p>In what way are they treated badly? The doorman sitting outside the door or the chauffeur waiting in the parking lot seem like part of the job. People here also put up with less than perfect situations to keep their jobs, especially now. Think about trash men, they have to work in all weather handling smelly garbage. They knew what the job entailed before taking it. Is it just because they work for the family that is a problem or does the family truly degrade or berate them?</p>

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<p>I think something is lost in the translation. The guy is paid to wait with the car while you are shopping. The guy is paid to sit by the door. No different from an elevator attendant in New York City. The elevator attendant is paid to stay at that elevator, even if no one comes by to use it.</p>

<p>In 3rd world countries, you have a really big problem of “under employed” people. In Mexico, you have a team of 5 guys taking all day to break up piece of concrete sidewalk with sledge hammers. In the USA, you have 1 guy doing it in 1 hour with another guy watching him. However, it is more “humane” to employ the 5 guys with sledge hammers than to replace 3 of them with a machine.</p>

<p>What would you prefer to paying the guy to wait with your car, for hours, while you shop? Drive the car yourself? The driver needs that job to feed his family.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>Let me be blunt here. I believe that certain values are absolutely NOT negotiable. </p>

<p>I grew up in an Asian country that is highly authoritarian, lacking in respect for basic human rights for weaker members of the society and pretty misogynistic. I grew up with maids and chauffeurs etc. Even before I came to USA as a graduate student, I always stood up for their rights, fighting with my mom for her treatment of them. This was a touchy issue, but I absolutely refused to respect the way my own mom behaved in the name of “tradition”. I believe that what’s wrong is wrong, and no amount of “respect” for old world culture should excuse the wrong. After all, this is the culture where until the Western values started to infiltrate the local culture, widow’s suicide was considered a high honor for the decreased husband’s family. (can you spell “pressure”?) There is no way that kind of thinking should be honored in the name of “tradition”. Having grown up in a very repressive culture, I developed an awareness as a very young girl that many, though not all, aspects of sacred traditions in a society have evolved as a way for those with power to legitimize the supremacy of their hold over the less fortunate members of the society. Though I grew up in a very prominent family, my gender made me realize early on that I was on the wrong side of the equation, and I was not going to let myself be indoctrinated so easily, and I felt I had no obligation to be party to the custom that so disfavored me.</p>

<p>Then, after 20 years or so, I went back there to work for a while (last few years) commuting between USA and that country. I worked for a very large, global company. The cultural dynamics did not change that much last twenty years or so. In that “elite, global company”, the behavior of the executives towards the subordinates is the kind of stuff that will ignite class action suits right left and center immediately. It was that bad - tremendous abuse of power. Though I was also an executive who had the “right” to treat my subordinates the same way in that rigidly authoritarian culture, I absolutely refused to go along with the “local” way - this angered a lot of my male peers since my refusal to honor their right to abuse their subordinates was making them VERY uncomfortable, but hey, my values are not for sale for the salary they were paying me.</p>

<p>The moral of my rambling is this: if you are the kind of person like me who feels strongly about a certain core set of values, you need to have a very candid, and very serious discussion with your BF. I am talking about basic value beyond how he “adapts” to different environment with a situation specific coping mechanism. Does he share your core value? I believe this is one of the most important aspects of stable marriage. Through 20 some years of marriage, I can say this: no matter what other conflicts were in “vogue” in our marriage, I always unabashedly respected my husband because his values were honorable. I don’t think I could have worked all the issues if I did not respect him and his value system. Everybody is different, but for me, this was VERY important. I could forgive a man who betrayed me, but I could never live with a man whom I cannot respect for the kind of person he is and the value he upholds. </p>

<p>I have another blunt observation for you. My marriage is also cross cultural - my husband is Jewish, and I know a lot of couples like me. When it comes to West-East type of cross cultural marriage, the odds are very good if the wife comes from a male chauvinistic culture and the husband from an egalitarian culture. The reverse, in general, does not work very well. The reason? Simple - when a wife is used to chauvinistic men from her own culture, it’s very easy for the husband from an egalitarian culture to “exceed” her expectation. Also, even a feminist wife by her cultural definition can easily meet her husband’s expectations about “womanly” virtues (sorry to sound so corny). You can easily reverse this equation and see that the opposite case of wife from an egalitarian culture and husband from an male dominated culture does not quite produce this favorable dynamics.</p>

<p>Again, don’t let me generalize this to your particular case. Every couple is different, and everybody has a different set of “must haves”. I am just providing data points for you to think about. All I am saying is: you need to think about the long term compatibility. What I came to appreciate after 20 some years of marriage is, the passion comes and goes, even love comes and goes. What holds the couple together through thick and thin and allows them to weather the storm here and there is the sense of loyalty and respect. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Hyeonjlee, I am blown away by your perceptive answer. I hope the OP takes a good hard look at what you’re saying. In fact, I suspect she is. The way your BF feels about how servants are treated in his hierarchical society is important in its own right, but it’s also a hint of how your boyfriend may treat issues of gender within his own culture. Very few American women would be comfortable with the deeply unfair role assigned to them in many parts of the world. If your BF says, “Well, that’s the way it is,” about servants, he may feel the same way about women and men in marriage. Even if he is very charming and egalitarian when you’re back in the U.S., be very careful that you understand what he really thinks about all of these issues before you contemplate marriage.</p>

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<p>Your experience in India is throwing into broad relief the injustices inherent in class, the divide between growing up rich and struggling as one of the poor.</p>

<p>Nickel and Dimed is a book which provides insight into similar struggles for the working poor in the United States.</p>

<p>As consumers, we can also unwittingly participate in unfair labor practices – for example, wearing clothing that was manufactured under sweatshop conditions.</p>

<p>What we do to fight injustice varies by individual. Some devote their lives to it. Often those who are resolved to live based on a strict set of principles make many sacrifices to their personal lives.</p>

<p>I also think it is a huge leap to assume that a man will necessarily have certain attitudes toward a woman because of his cultural upbringing.</p>