<p>Wow, I feel terrible for your daughter.</p>
<p>I absolutely wouldn't let my parents do that to me. I hope she's strong enough to ignore you.</p>
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Pizzagirl, I have three university alma maters. I'm not active in any of the alumni networks. The way I figure it, I don't owe them anything.
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<p>Maybe you would have enjoyed your schooling more if you were tied into some campus organization while there -- whether it was a particular club, organization, residential college or (dare I say) Greek organization. </p>
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pinkpineapple, I didn't say you or anyone else was "mentally deificient." I did say I find George W. Bush to be a revolting, overgrown frat boy. When I think of Greek life I think of George W. Bush and Republicans. The pressure to conform, to follow the chosen leader. To obey. It's hard for me to separate the two--Republicans and Greek Life. I don't know why.
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<p>That's your own bias, though. It's not reflective of reality. I went to a top 20 school. I was in a sorority. I had NO pressure to conform, NO pressure to follow any chosen leader, and trust me, I am as Dem as they come. There were girls in my house who were quite liberal, quite progressive socially, quite nonconformist in many ways. But, we liked one another and enjoyed being in a house together, so there you have it. Oh -- we had some Republicans too. I thought you thought diversity of experience was a good thing?</p>
<p>It doesn't speak well for your education that you're not willing to honestly listen to others' points of view -- esp those who have been in it! -- and instead persist in applying your own twenty-year-old stereotypes.</p>
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Anyway, I don't think I can be objective on this topic with my D, so what I've decided to do is try to steer her to colleges where Greek Life is nonexistent or lowly regarded. Letting her go to a college/university where Greek Life is big and then convince her not to join would be too difficult, if not impossible. If she goes to a college where Greek life does not exist, I don't have to worry.
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<p>At NU, roughly 1/3 of the campus is Greek. Know what that means? 2/3 of the campus isn't Greek. What does that mean for social pressure? Honestly, the 1/3 who is Greek don't particularly care that the other 2/3 aren't Greek. Whatever -- have a nice day. They still talk to them and room with them and socialize with them as their time and interests allow -- because no one CARES. I think you have some wacky stereotype that if your dd goes to a college that has Greeks and she doesn't join, all the Greek girls will just toss their long blonde hair and giggle at her when she walks by. Nothing of the sort is true. It's just another club in that regard. Sure, there are always a handful of GDI's who think that they are hot shot for rejecting Greek life. No one particularly cares, though. They come across looking stupid for wanting to apply a Greek handle to themselves. If you don't want to be Greek, then don't! Simple as that. Why would you feel any more pressure to be Greek, than to join the hockey team, sailing club or student newspaper?</p>
<p>You are giving the Greek system WAY too much power. Put down the Animal House DVD. But wait, I want to see Belushi do that thing with the mashed potatoes one more time in the cafeteria line, and then you can stop it :-)</p>
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I also chose a school in part because it had no greek life. I didn't want greek life and it is as legitimate a criteria as size, weather, location, etc. to want or not want a greek presence. I dont see it as "narrow minded". I see it as an aspect of college life that is enjoyable to some and not to others.
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<p>YOU chose, which is different from the parent choosing.</p>
<p>But if the parent pays the bill, and perhaps the student is not the most dedicated student and prone to party too much.. well, just a thought</p>
<p>^^It's true that could be valid in some situations, but certainly not this one.</p>
<p>And you know that how, CaseSpartan? Was that posted somewhere and I missed it?</p>
<p>Many parents set parameters on their kids college choices-- some don't want them to stay too close, or go too far, or cost too much, or be too big or too small, or, heaven forbid, is not prestigious enough. some parents seem to set what appear to be unreasonable criteria to some, these may be reasonable to others. The OP didnt say he refused to let his dau apply to a school with a greek presence, he just said he was going to steer her away. There are far, far more controlling parents on CC than the OP. That's not a good thing-- its just that the OP is being, IMO, unnecessarily chastized.</p>
<p>OTOH, jmy, the OP also asked about it. There have been parents who have said things like "My S/D got into Harvard but wants to go to some less prestigious school because it fits them better, how do I change their mind?" and they, too, have been chastised.</p>
<p>Neonzeus: Why weren't you impressed? Even if you don't like Greek life, being the vice president of any large campus organization (and many Greeks have a large number of members) seems pretty impressive to me, and clearly she’s shown dedication.</p>
<p>Perhaps the word " hate" is what got some posters all riled up. The OP is just trying to protect his daughter and is asking questions. Providing information is helpful. Greeks attacking him just, IMO, just solidifies his opinion. FWIW....</p>
<p>jym: He's not just asking questions...he's stating very strong and, frankley, hurtful opinions, and does not seem to be listening to any of the answers to the questions he has asked.</p>
<p>Most people, esp. at the beginning, were being very reasonable, IMO. They said, basically, "it's cool to have your own opinion, but keep an open mind and let your D figure out what's best for her, and remember, not all Greeks are the same." It’s the same kind of thing I think many would say if someone said they hated Unis and wanted thier kid to only look at LACs, or if someone said they were worried about liberal arts majors not having careers, and only wanted their D to major in business or go to law school. Heck, it’s what we’d say if someone said they loved Greek life and wanted to make sure their kid joined it too.</p>
<p>Basically, I think it’s totally fine for a parent to have opinions about the Greek system, and it’s great for them to discuss their worries (or positive experianance, if the situation were reversed) with their children. It’s perfectly resonable to say “if you want to participate in this, you have to pay your own dues.” But, IMO, they should then trust their kids make their own, smart, decisions, and try to understand those descisions. </p>
<p>If the OP doesn’t trust his D to make smart decision (as #64 suggests)….well that’s a different problem, and one that won’t be solved simply by going somewhere without a Greek scene, because there are parties everywhere.</p>
<p>Weskid: </p>
<p>I admitted to a slight bias against Greeks, and viewed claiming a frat on a resume as being akin to claiming a social club. I felt that this kid had built his entire college experience around a frat house (and yes, it was a top 20 school). Succeeding within this one group and claiming social accomplishments didn't begin to compare to other applicants whose resumes showed wider experiences.<br>
Perhaps if he listed many other activities as well, my impression would have been different. </p>
<p>My point was that when our kids go out into the world, their interviewers and Grad School admissions counselors will bring their own biases to the table. It can work in your favor, or against you. When you identify yourself as an activist Republican, you risk alienating Democrats...or vice versa. If you identify yourself as a jock, someone may be turned-off by that and someone else might think that you'd be a fun person to talk to at the water cooler. </p>
<p>I am not suggesting that everyone worry about making their resumes so vanilla that they avoid any controversy at all, but there can be a price to pay. Clearly, there is still some bias against Greeks (and I think we can agree that there are more nonGreeks than Greeks). On the other hand, perhaps the alumni networks of Greeks are very helpful or those alumni are more inclined to review Greeks favorably. Every choice we make in life can have pros and cons. My kids are making their own choices, and if they want to go Greek I'm not going to object (cringe a little in my 60s/70s mindset, but not object).</p>
<p>I hated Greek life, too. The worst cases are stereotypical. There are certainly some good things that Greeks do, but even in the best of cases, I found in cliquish, and that turned me off. If you are a real non-conformist, Greek life is probably not for you. </p>
<p>However, it should be your child's decision. You can point out the drawbacks of Greek life, but ultimately he/she will have to make the decision, and pay any costs, if you choose not to.</p>
<p>S1 pledged a professional fraternity and, nonconformist that he is, it lasted barely a semester until they were required to do some pointless initiation activity, and he quit on the spot. He was especially disgusted because it was a professional fraternity rather than a social one.</p>
<p>jmy,</p>
<p>Not everything needs to be stated explicitly. It's clear he's steering his daughter away from schools with Greek systems due to personal bias, rather than a fear his daughter will party too much.</p>
<p>reading comprehension, buddy</p>
<p>Hmm...</p>
<p>I think the problem here is that "Greek Life" is being defined with one very broad brush, when in fact, there's tons of variety. The OP seems determined to ignore this, perhaps even to the detriment of his D. And people tend to get frustrated when they take the time to share their personal experiences, suggest options, etc., only to have it all completely discounted in favor of an outdated, pre-existing, myopic point of view.</p>
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reading comprehension, buddy
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This is the kind of stuff to which I was referring. Unnecessary snipes. I mentioned that I hadn't read the whole thread, but it seems to me that the OP was acknowledging his bias, but open to opinion. He asked for comments, not flippant snide comments. While FLVADAD and others who said that some were perhaps overgeneralizing about the greek life were probably right, such comments do greeks a disservice, IMO.</p>
<p>jym...I think not reading the whole thread might be why some of us don't really understand where you are coming from, because while the OP seemed very open to ideas at the beginning, that did not seem to play out in the actual thread...at least, that's how I understood his responces.</p>
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Succeeding within this one group and claiming social accomplishments didn't begin to compare to other applicants whose resumes showed wider experiences.
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<p>Neonzeus: that makes sense. Though to my mind, what you said is true of anyone who has really only succeeded in one area. Even being the head of the school's debate team, if that’s all you do, just proved that you managed to succeed in that individual environment, where (at least in my experience) the social network of the group comes in to play as much as anything else. I mean, sure, it proves you can do that work pretty well too, but, at least in my experience of Greeks, you’ll only continue to get elected to things if you prove that you have the organizational ability to get things done in that arena too.</p>
<p>I guess that's a differance though...in my view, holding multiple offices in a Greek is NOT a social accomplishment, because I've seen very popular people passed over because they didn't have the skills for the office. At least, it's no more a social accomplishment than holding an office in any sort of school orginization. I hope that some people, even non-Greeks would look past the “Greek” label and understand that many of those positions take a lot of work and important skills to pull off…though of course someone who was President of their Greek while also being the editor of the school newspaper AND doing their own research would be more impressive :D (In fact, I think there was a thread about whether or not to put Greek leadership on a resume at one point...in general, though, most people, even non-Greeks, seemed to think it was a good idea and said they would veiw it positivley).</p>
<p>But anyway, your point about biases existing in the real world is a good one, and certainly another thing the OP could tell their daughter to consider.</p>
<p>Weskid-
I've gone back to scan the thread. I agree that the OP does seem to have a pretty clear, negative opinion about greek life. One of my earlier points was simply to suggest that there could be other issues with his dau that he chose not to share or discuss. That is his right. Personally, I dislike the whole "rush" and "vote to be accepted" stuff myself, regardless of how wonderful any particular frat or sorority is. Personally, I much prefer the residential college system, and was thrilled that my older s chose that route. My younger s chose a school with a greek presence. He is unsure if he will rush or not, but he does plan to socialize at their parties. That is fine. I thought his choice not to consider a school in a certain climate was stupid, but it is his choice. As for the OP, if there are many many good non greek schools that fit with his daus goals, there is nothing wrong with bringing those to the forefront. However, if she is doing her own research and she finds a school that is a good fit that happens to have a strong greek presence, I suspect she'll look into it. If she has gorgeous, model looks, I can't blame a father for wanting to keep drunk frat boys offa her :D (jk)</p>
<p>Personally, I chose both the residential college route AND the fraternity route. Does that make me weird?</p>
<p>(And to head off anything- I'm about as actively involved as you can be in both)</p>
<p>Like all things, there are good and bad things w/ regard to Greek life and it is ultimately what the student makes it out to be.</p>
<p>Plus, Greek life differs from campus to campus and from house to house.</p>
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I actually played college baseball (centerfield) and dreamed of making it to The Show. It wasn't in the cards. Anyway, now I have a 12th grader considering colleges. We've made several visits. I've discovered I still hate the Greek thing. It's too exclusive. Too us against them.
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<p>You know, many people say the same things about "jocks" (I was in the "jock fraternity" - so that was a double whammy).</p>
<p>It was not my intention to make this my first post, but I couldn't help myself. Some things I would like for people to keep in mind and/or be aware of. Greek systems are remarkably different from campus to campus and region to region. Being Greek today can be alot different than it was 20+ years ago, do please do not let opinions that were formed by your own college days completely color your judgment about them today. Please be aware that fraternities and sororities are very different. The press and others love to paint all Greeks with the same brush. It's not fair nor accurate.</p>