<p>Apparently 5 is the recommended course load to graduate in 4 years - but if it means taking a summer course one year it might be a good option at least for the fall.</p>
<p>Interesteddad: I hear you, if he was partying non-stop I would agree. He says he isn’t and I believe him. From what I can tell it seems like people really clump socially (greek, dorm, interests) and somehow, despite being a pretty outgoing kid he sort of fell through the cracks socially.</p>
<p>mdcissp: it’s what he has wanted to do since elementary school. I think he will probably end up in more of a “front-line” kind of job but most probably in the tech field.</p>
<p>3bysmom, if it’s not too personal, can you tell us what the courses were and what grades he got in each?</p>
<p>I don’t know your school’s curriculum, but usually freshman year is not 100% Engineering classes. Is your son taking advantage of some easier, non-Engineering classes to boost his GPA? Taking 5 all Engineering/CS/Math type of classes is very hard. Does the CS major at your son’s school allow him to take non-CS, elective type of classes? Is your son looking at web sites like ratemyprofessors.com to find out if the professor is a good match of teaching style for your son?</p>
<p>3bysmom,</p>
<p>Maybe there’s nothing seriously “wrong” with your son except that he’s taking some time to adjust to being at a highly selective college. In HS he was the “smart” one and he probably never made a grade less than an A or A-. But he’s now in an environment where statistically, he’s “average” at best since <em>all</em> of his peers were also the “smart” one in HS and earned straight A’s or close to it. He (and you) need to realize that his school is full of students who earned straight A’s in HS and graduated in the top 10% of their class. Well, they can’t all earn straight A’s in college and 90% of them won’t graduate in the top 10% of their college class even though they are at an Ivy. The fact that he’s in engineering and pulling a 2.3–2.5 in freshman weed out classes is not unusual. The students who are weeded out don’t earn a mixture fo C’s and B’s in all their classes.</p>
<p>I remember my own freshman orientation at W&M many, many years ago: The President said something that I think you and your S need to hear. He told all us freshman to look around and realize that everybody in the room was just like us—likely they graduated in the top 10–15% of their high school class; many of us were straight A students and those who weren’t had probably never gotten a grade lower than a B. Then he said we needed to realize that wouldn’t continue in college—statistically speaking we were all average for W&M. A few of us would rise to the top by our senior year; most of us wouldn’t. Then he said to look at the two students on each side of us and think of yourself and your two classmates as a group of three: One was likely to graduate in the top 1/3 of the graduating class four years in the future, one in the middle 1/3, and one would likely be in the bottom 1/3 of the class—but that person in the bottom would most likely graduate (on time) and that that was what was important. He told us that almost all of us would see our first C during our freshman year and that we should all expect our first semester (and first year) grades to be far worse than anything we ever earned in HS. And then he said we needed to make a conscious effort to NOT define our self worth by our W&M gpa.</p>
<p>You and your son need to not define “success” as having grades similar to those he earned in HS. You and your S need to look at his grades in a positive light: He’s finished his freshman year at a dream-reach school and he’s earned grades that are sufficiently good for him to be making normal academic progress towards his degree. Yes, your son does need to work on finishing his transition to college: He should work on improving his study skills. He needs to make sure he knows what tutoring services are available on campus and take advantage of them when he’s struggling. Your son may want to re-evaluate whether he wants to major in computer science. But none of that changes the fact that he has earned a gpa that is decent enough in a tough, tough major at a highly selective school. And if he keeps the work up, he’ll graduate—not at the top of the class, maybe not even in the top half of the class, but he’ll graduate nonetheless from a highly selective and well respected institution and that’s nothing to sneeze at.</p>
<p>As for the housing problem: Contact Residental Life at the college and see if you can get your S on a waiting list for a dorm room in case the frat housing does fall through because of S’s gpa. “Summer melt” at Res. Life happens and they may be able to get him into a dorm without too much trouble. Also—did he go through rush in the Spring? If so, then maybe your son should reconsider whether joining the frat is really in his best interest.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son!</p>
<p>Despite all the assurances, I doubt very much that rush week and hazing helped his academic performance.</p>
<p>I think the major has to be seriously considered. My daughter always got straight A+'s in math, in her sleep, doing her homework in front of TV. 5 on her Calc AP test. She got to college and college Calculus kicked her butt. She scratched and clawed her way through it using all available study groups and office hours, but realized that college math was not going to be her “thing”. It wasn’t lack of effort; just the opposite. I think she worked harder in that course for the worst grade she ever got in her entire life. I have heard the same story from students at Dartmouth and Harvard. If the freshman engineering courses are causing that kind of difficulty, you really have to consider whether it is, perhaps, just an aptitude mismatch, regardless of how it went in high school.</p>
<p>On study skills, my daughter breezed through high school. At college, she had to approach academics like a job. The first rule she followed was to go to the library after dinner, five nights a week, for three or four hours. She went with friends, so it was social in a way, but it was the kind of discipline she needed. I think guys are more inclined to wing it, when the situation calls for using the available resources and attacking it in a more systematic fashion.</p>
<p>Engineering and CS are tough. Often though grades go up after freshman year. It’s a great thing that you son has not given up and wants to keep trying. </p>
<p>One thing you could try is researching GPA vs job and grad school placement. It might be that there are fine opportunities for all grads, even if GPA not stellar. Certainly job experiences like he has gotten is a plus.</p>
<p>My husband graduated from a below average high school that had no AP courses, and the quality of the education was poor. He went to a tough top 25 university. His grades were not good that first year, though his second semester grades were a slight improvement over the first. He did work things out and graduated with honors in a rigorous major, but that transition year, the first year of college was rough.</p>
<p>What courses is he taking? What kind of load is he taking? It might be a good idea for him to take the most basic courses to build his foundation the way this college wants it built. I know I got my head handed to me for opting out of Calculus after getting a 3 on the AP exam and then barely passing the departmental exam that put directly into Calc 3. I did not have the thorough knowledge of Calc 1 and 2 and should have retaken those courses. I also would have benefitted from the freshman comp course that I skipped due to a 5 in AP English. I needed to learn as most of the freshmen did, what the school wanted in the way of research papers and writing styles. It took me a brutal year to figure it out and my grades were not good in that process. </p>
<p>Sometimes claiming those AP credits and/or not taking the most basic college courses is a big mistake.</p>
<p>I feared for my son his freshman year because he was so burned out academically that he seriously considered taking a gap year. It was a good thing for him that his college MAKES the freshmen start out slow regardless of AP credits, advanced courses. They HAVE to take a basic “getting to know you” survey course to ease them into the swing of things. He gradually worked his way into the more advanced courses and he completed his sophomore year with a 4.0 average in advanced courses. Would have never thought this would have happened. I was preparing for grades like your son’s and just hoping he would squeak through.</p>
<p>The other possibility and it is a distinct one is that your son may not be giving his studies the priority he should. This is not something kids are likely to share with their parents. Many a parent has discovered this after going through the worry and concern that the school is too hard, the kid is unprepared, etc when the problem is that the kid is enjoying the social scene a little too much.</p>
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<p>??? Every engineering program I know of requires 130 or more credits to grad. Which translates to a course load of between 15 and 18 credits (5 or 6 grades) for all eight semesters. 12 credits/4 grades per semester is a 5 1/2 year grad plan. (AP credit excepted)</p>
<p>Are the Bs in his major courses or are the Cs? Some people love CS but find some aspects of it too difficult to actually major in it. Maybe they’re better at hardware than software (or other aspects…I sure don’t know enough to discuss it!)</p>
<p>“??? Every engineering program I know of requires 130 or more credits to grad. Which translates to a course load of between 15 and 18 credits (5 or 6 grades) for all eight semesters. 12 credits/4 grades per semester is a 5 1/2 year grad plan. (AP credit excepted)”</p>
<p>Well, I can tell you UMich requires 128, and most Engineering classes are 4 credits or 2 credits if they’re 7-week classes (7 weeks is a quarter, 14 a semester). Also, the pre-reqs are mostly 4 credits (Maths up to and including Multivariate, Linear, and DiffEQ, Mechanics, E&M, Inorganic, both semesters of Organic), some with 1 credit labs as well. </p>
<p>Though as I’m looking through the site, this is seeming to be the exception and not the norm, but I’m sure some others run like this too.</p>
<p>I think Robinsuesanders may have hit the nail on the head. I also remember the first day my son (and parents) were at orientation for the School of Computer Science at Carnegie Mellon. The Dean asked the students who was in the top 10% of the class. Every kid raised their hand. Then he asked who expected to be in the top 10% at Carnegie Mellon. Every kid raised their hand again. Then he said 90% of you won’t be, but don’t worry and showed us a lot of charts and graphs showing us that even the bottom kids in the class had great job offers. If you are in a good program, grades aren’t the be all and end all. My son is still getting great grades, but even he has to work much, much harder than he ever has before. CS is a demanding major.</p>
<p>Others have also requested this but perhaps you could post what he took for the first and second semesters. My son is in a computer science program and I work in software engineering so perhaps I could make some comments on the major courses. Some schools have a bunch of three credit courses and some have four so that may affect the number of courses taken per semester.</p>
<p>Computer Science in the first year often has a programming/computing sequence (two semesters), calc (two semesters), writing and literature (two semesters) and physics (two semesters). That courseload can be pretty rough, especially if the programming/computing courses have a lot of labs or many difficult labs. A lot of computer science programs state that no previous programming experience is required but I think that the first year goes a lot easier if there is prior experience as you don’t have to learn the basics and you have a toolbox of methods and debugging tools that can make you far more efficient in getting through the labs. The tutoring center can be really valuable for calculus and physics but oftentimes, getting help on programming assignments is a gray area in the honor code. Some schools do allow collaboration but it has to be documented.</p>
<p>In engineering colleges, it’s not uncommon for about only one-third of those who try succeeding in getting an engineering degree. In my son’s first year physics courses, only about one-third got through the first year. Your son passed so he has the aptitude. I like to remind people that C is average, B is above average and A is outstanding. That may not always be true due to grade inflation but there are professors out there that grade with this philosophy.</p>
<p>“Despite all the assurances, I doubt very much that rush week and hazing helped his academic performance.”</p>
<p>Husband has been a college prof for 18 years in a major much easier than is engineering. Husband has noticed that almost all students drop a full grade during the semester they pledge.</p>
<p>Fall 09
Math Foundations of CS
Calculus I
Physics I
Chinese
Programming lang and Tech I</p>
<p>Spring 10
Prog lang and tech II
Python
Digital des foundations
Physics II (w/lab)
Technology and society</p>
<p>Fall 10
Intro to comp systems
automata, comput. & complx
Calculus II
Philosophy of space and time
and a freshman writing course that he has not taken yet</p>
<p>Your son took a killer courseload.</p>
<p>It would seem that way, but his impression is that everyone had at least that tough of a schedule. He does hang out mostly with the engineering kids so there isn’t that balance of the english or philosophy majors to compare. Didn’t help that his roommate took 6 courses and had a 4.0!</p>
<p>I bet most of the other students didn’t take Chinese and many didn’t pledge.</p>
<p>I think he had a hard freshman year, and lots of little things can be tweaked. (More involved advisor, more visits to office hours, a social life that doesn’t depend on the fraternity, perhaps a lighter courseload for a semester). Right now he’s disappointed and exhausted, but he will go back as a sophomore, with a year under his belt and a new energy. If there’s anything he feels shaky on, could he take a summer class to shore that up? This reminds me of my D’s first year at high school-- hell on earth, the day before she went back she was weeping and begging to change schools. 3 days later, all was well-- and all year things are just up, up, up, academically, socially, etc. The early troubles taught her all kinds of things that she has put to good use.</p>
<p>D is currently an engineering major who just finished her first year. While I don’t know the outcome of her grades this term, I do know that she had to work her tail off and definitely didn’t get the results she did in HS. I don’t know that she’s going to want to continue with engineering or not. She has basically finished the core group of courses (Calc II and III, Physics I&II with lab, Chem I&II with lab, Engineering Design I&II, Tech and Society type writing course, a language). She has definitely chafed at the restrictions of the curriculum- but has had 18 credits each term and has registered for a summer course in Differential Equations so she can take 18 credits again in the fall, allowing for some humanities courses. </p>
<p>At times she is very enthusiastic about engineering and her proposed major, but other times less so, almost doubting herself. She is slated to research in a lab this summer, which I thought she would really enjoy, but she hasn’t embraced it as I thought she would. I am afraid that she’s overloading herself but she’s so worried about keeping up and on track. She was selected for a scholars program and really feels the pressure there and has all year. </p>
<p>This was a good thread to read through. It seems every other thread involves an engineering major who is an absolute genius with three majors - or at least the ones I’ve been reading!</p>