<p>18 credits - wow! my S would have been curled up in the closet with that load! With all of this - he really has no doubts about what he wants to do although it is getting refined bit by bit as he gets exposure to the real world of internships/jobs/etc. I think he is finding that he is more of a “people person” than a cubicle tech. He won’t be happy sitting in a quiet room programming all day but he does want to stay in the tech field. His school has a BAS (bachelor of applied science) which is a little less techy and a little more business/entrepeneur oriented. The pure engineers “poo-poo” it but maybe it meets his needs better?</p>
<p>Slightly off topic.</p>
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<p>Every engineering major requires two semesters of O Chem? Even CS or EE majors take a year of Organic? Is this normal? Just curious. </p>
<p>Sorry for the little detour. I think most people have already given good advice.</p>
<p>He took all those credits, and worked in an internship all year and pledged a frat?
Too much! If this were my student I would encourage him to cut back on the internship and frat and focus on the coursework.</p>
<p>A heavy engineering courseload and a social life don’t always combine well. I do think students have a tendency to think they can do it all; some students can but it’s my opinion they’re the exception rather than the rule.</p>
<p>oh and did I mention that he had a job as a “tech info assist” in his dorm about 5-8 hours a week. I already told him that is out.</p>
<p>Mixing in two non-math/non-science/non-engineering courses may have made it more manageable. Chinese is usually considered a hard course unless one has a natural gift for languages. There may be other students that can do more and they may have the background or natural ability or superb organizational skills or be more resourceful but your son’s courseload looks pretty heavy to me. The Technology and Society is generally an easier course than all of the rest in his first year. The fall 2010 schedule looks better. He might have an easier time in the fall if he pre-studies the first three in the list. The second course in the list can often be a little confusing to students.</p>
<p>My goodness. D pledged a sorority, but that definitely did not involve as much as pledging a fraternity and all that hell week entails. It does sound like your son might need to cut back a bit somewhere and I think you are correct in eliminating the tech info assistant position!</p>
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<p>You can say that again. There’s no balance in that courseload at all and, frankly, no opportunity for the young man to sample and find out what he enjoys and what he’s good at. IMO, this is a major flaw in the concept of stand-alone engineering schools. Even the humanities courses there are “philosphy with slide rules” type courses.</p>
<p>I feel bad for the kid. What a gruelling, disheartening way to start college. “Technology and society”. What? He’s not getting enough tech with the math and physics courses? 
And, on top of it all, Intro Chinese is one of the most time consuming courses in a college catalog. The young man spent his entire first semester without a single course involving reading a book. All five courses were problem sets and drills.</p>
<p>stradmom likely has it right. Working smart means asking yourself if you really know the key concepts - and if you don’t - focusing until you do. In graduate school, I wouldn’t let myself leave the classroom until I made sure the key points from the class (usually no more than 3) were fully understood. Often that was a few minutes of energy - but sometimes a lot more - you do whatever it takes. I wouldn’t let the day expire without being able to comprehend the 2 or 3 main points from each class. That is working smart - it makes cramming for mid-terms and finals - well - not cramming, but a review. 30 minutes of working smart - and this might be 30 extra intense minutes a day - really can pay off. </p>
<p>And I would add one more thing - the great thing about competitive athletics - given its demands on both body and mind - is that it teaches us that athletes invariably tend to think they are working harder than they actually are. This is why good coaching is so helpful. I would ask him in a nice way if he really isn’t fooling himself in convincing himself he is “working hard”. This comment in the proper context isn’t a mean or de-motivating question - as I said, most great athletes - even the most competitive ones - often suffer from the same delusions. </p>
<p>One more item. My thesis adviser passed away a few years ago. What a significant influence on my life. When I would complain about not mastering the subject at the rate to which I expected, he rightly put me in my place, but as usual, in a kind way. He related that nothing great in education is accomplished without lots of ego damage along the way. Viewed from this perspective, the original poster’s son may just have endured the kind of year that will reap long term benefits. No one in the long run is exempt from enduring ego damage if doing anything worthwhile or challenging. No one. My adviser was keeping my ego in check, making sure I had the humility and attitude to do the work. I am ever grateful. A thought to pass on. </p>
<p>If anything, my impression of the young man here is exceedingly positive - I would relish nothing more than being able to cheer this kid on from the sidelines, infusing positive thought while at the same time helping him to be accountable to the challenge. I like his guts in even going for the “reach” school - and he can demonstrate the kind of mental toughness to which he is likely capable. Cheers to him.</p>
<p>I did not read all four pages, but there are some good study skills books available that might offer some suggestions. One is “How to Study in College” and the author is Walter Pauk (Cornell), the original study skills guru. There is another by Dave Ellis that is good. You can probably get older copies very cheap online. Many, many students get by in high school and some excell with very little effort. College is different for most everyone–especially those who choose engineering and the hard sciences. BTW, I agree that a 2.5 in engineering school is not terrible.</p>
<p>Though I agree that a 2.5 with this guy’s courseload is nothing to worry about, with almost eveybody on collegeconfidential twisting and straining and reaching to get in the very very best college they can, it only makes sense that some of them would be at the lower end of the spectrum of their colleges’ brainiacs. So I’m surprised there aren’t more threads like this. The merits of going to a college that is nowhere near the most difficult/exclusive/prestigious that one can get into is a very under-discussed topic on CC. I don’t mean going to Tufts when you could have gotten in Columbia and MIT…I’m talking about choosing Kansas or Santa Clara over Stanford or Chicago, so that you can get great grades and still have lots of time for socializing, travel, exploring, and keeping your body and emotions from falling apart.</p>
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<p>Seems I’ve read here that engineering and similar courses are virtually equally difficult wherever one takes them. I imagine that Chinese is similar.</p>
<p>Given his tough course load, job, internship, and fraternity activities, I think it’s remarkable that his gpa was as high as it was. A less intelligent person would have flunked out.</p>
<p>OP: One thing that I noted in a post of yours that no one addressed, is that you said he is “easily distracted.” As the mom of a gifted child with ADHD, I will tell you that quite often the really bright kids (and your son is obviously in that category with the stats to be admitted to an Ivy) have LDs that are masked or are overcome through middle & high school due to innate intelligence and verbal skills. While I agree with everyone that he had a wicked course load, there also may be an undiagnosed LD that is rearing it’s head now that the workload is so demanding. Something to keep in mind when you chat with his SAT tutor. ADHD-inattentive is easy to miss vs. the typical hyperactive ADHD.</p>
<p>I think it is really important for your son to figure out if he really wants to continue as a CS major. Many kids change their minds after they start the Engineering classes. CS is a perfectionist type of major. The code has to be perfect or the program does not work. Although your son wanted CS from the time he was a child, enjoying computers is very different than actually writing the code for CS classes which is very hard and demanding. I am not trying to say that CS is the wrong major, but maybe he would enjoy a different area of Engineering more so that the long involved projects are more enjoyable. It is really important that your son feels success. </p>
<p>One thing I love about my son’s Engineering program is that the first semester freshman year has a class where the kids rotate through every area of Engineering offered so that if you want to switch to a different area of Engineering, you can do so the first year. I hear of kids changing their majors. It sounds like your son is at a great school but may need to consider a different major–at least think about it.</p>
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I know interesteddad absolutely hates fraternities, but I’m not sure that it’s always the case that they ruin the academics. My son graduated with a 3.8 with a degree in engineering and was a member of a fraternity. I believe the fraternity actually helped. Especially a fraternity that has a GPA requirement.</p>
<p>It’s next to impossible for most students to maintain their gpas while pledging.</p>
<p>As an engineer I can tell you that many schools use the first year to weed out a lot of the kids who are not going to cut it later on. Engineering is a very time intensive and difficult major. IMO, he is probably better off not being in the frat. I suggest he find some buddies in his major and start studying with them in the library when he returns in the fall. Also, what classes did he get C’s in vs B’s? If they are in required humanities classes I wouldn’t worry as much as I might if they are in core engineering classes. Last, if the C’s are in core engineering classes, are they in his major? I know I performed horribly in the electronic circuits, but did fine in my major. </p>
<p>I like the index card idea. Write key ideas, equations, etc on them and he should be reviewing them whenever he has a few idle moments. Unfortunately, engineering is not the major for those who want lots of free time.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son and make sure he uses the summer wisely reviewing the past years work so he goes into the fall confident.</p>
<p>Just saw his courseload, as others have said, wow! Make sure if he needs to take classes outside his major, like Org chem he took, he is taking the one designated for non majors and is not in a class with chem majors.</p>
<p>3bm103,</p>
<p>I’ll say it again: I really think there is nothing seriously “wrong” with your S’s first year grades—particularly given that:</p>
<p>1) He had a killer of a schedule (as many others have noted)
2) He pledged a frat
3) He had an internship
4) He had a (second) job as “tech info assistant”</p>
<p>The <em>best</em> thing you and your S can do is to QUIT COMPARING HIM to the kids who self report that they’re earning 4.0’s at the same school (and in engineering?).</p>
<p>You S is NOT in academic trouble. He does need to focus on finishing his transition to being at a highly selective college—his grades may not be where he wants them to be until he’s a JUNIOR, but that’s ok as long as he’s making normal academic progress towards his degree.</p>
<p>Some things to consider for next year that may (or may not) help him improve his grades, but will help keep him making normal academic progress:</p>
<p>1) Since he’s taking Calc II in the fall having not had any calculus in the spring, he will need to THOROUGHLY REVIEW the content of Calc I this summer. This is doubly true if he earned a C in Calc I. He needs to make sure that he earns at least a C in Calc II in the fall so that he doesn’t get behind on the math requirements. If he doesn’t spend some serious time reviewing Calc I, he may be setting himself up for a D in Calc II and that would be a REAL problem.</p>
<p>2) He needs to NOT compare his grades to his friends’ grades. He needs to constantly remind himself that at his selective school <em>everybody</em> was a top HS student and that <em>almost everybody</em> will NOT be a top student at the Ivy. He also needs to remind himself that <em>graduating</em> (even in the bottom half of his college class) is the final GOAL and that even the students in the bottom half of his college class will find gainful employment.</p>
<p>3) You and he need to be REALISTIC in what to expect for his fall grades—particularly if he doesn’t drop the frat, the internship, or the other campus job. Given his fall schedule, he should expect to work extremely hard, but still expect to be HAPPY if he pulls all B’s. He should NOT be disappointed if his Fall 2010 grades contain a C or two—particularly if he doesn’t like to write. (Why did he put off the freshman writing class?)</p>
<p>4) I think you’ve said that your S is more of a people person than a “be happy sitting by self working on tough problem person”. So the frat, the internship, and holding down another 5–8 hour campus job may be very important to your son. That’s fine! It’s just that he (and you) need to be aware of trade-offs. If these kinds of activities are really very important to him, then learning to accept a less than stellar GPA (but still one high enough to graduate on time) while doing things that are important to him may be a BETTER compromise than dropping one or more of these things in the hopes that somehow the grades will go up dramatically.</p>
<p>5) You and he need to work on the Fall HOUSING problem. I agree with you that a 1-bed apartment off-campus (with no roommate) will be very isolating for him. Two possible solutions are: See if he can get on a waiting list for a dorm room. See if he can find a spot in a <em>shared</em> off-campus apartment. If the housing problem is not fixed in a fashion that your S is comfortable with, then that could create REAL problems in the Fall both with grades (no one to study with) and social life (no one to hang out with).</p>
<p>6) Next Fall he needs to make better use of office hours, tutoring centers, and study groups. He needs to use a calendar to remind him of important dates—not just due dates for homework, papers, tests, but also dates such as pass/fail deadlines, withdraw deadlines, advising appointments, etc. He needs to initiate the conversation with his adviser by asking questions. Many advisers are happy to talk to students, but will often simply sign off on the proposed course schedule because the student doesn’t appear to have any questions. And again, he needs to learn to be HAPPY when he gets a B on a hard test, rather than beating himself up because the kid sitting next to him got an A.</p>
<p>7) More than anything else, your S needs you and your spouse to remind him that he’s a good person and that you love him. Remind him that his worth as a person has NOTHING AT ALL to do with his college GPA. Remind him that in the long run, earning the degree will remain important, but the importance of his GPA at graduation will fade rather quickly.</p>
<p>Excellent post and advice.</p>