<p>While I know the kids of many CCer's are the well-balanced, cream of the crop, I'm wondering if perhaps others are struggling with the problem we are. D is finding it difficult to sustain relationships with friends, not because she's not popular or has no time for them, but because they have all the time in the world. It seems to D that at her high school there are two extremes: the super ambitious students who work extremely hard, take classes or study for SAT's all summer, and rarely socialize, and on the other extreme are the lazy hazy group who basically sleep in, and then visit each other all the time. D's friends belong to the latter group (she claims the other group is too nerdy for her taste and they never go out at all) and appear to hang out at each other's houses all day, sleep over at each other's houses every weekend--both nights, do not have jobs or classes or programs, and seem to have nothing firm planned for the summer except maybe one week of a band or sports camp. Since they are always available and D is not, D has begun to be left out of their plans. I don't think it was a deliberate thing for most members of her group, but it's so much easier to make arrangements with people who don't have a schedule! The Queen Bee and social coordinator of the group, however, has become very jealous of D and has probably promoted leaving D out of the plans which hasn't helped the situation. As I discussed once on another thread, D has experienced some problems with jealousy due to her success in her sport and these are kids from her team. While the situation feels worse in the summer, it's also a problem during the school year. If D has to study for her AP classes, she can't exactly spend hours IM'ing and texting like the other kids do. This also cuts her out of the loop. D desperately wants to find middle-of-the-road kids like herself. In fact, on the last day of school she showed me what one kid, who regrettably was a senior, wrote in her yearbook. He said that she was the best person he knew because she is hard-working in her studies but also knows how to play and have fun and he doesn't know anyone else like that. So, I gues that perception of the social groups wasn't unique to D.</p>
<p>I think a lot of kids feel exactly the way your daughter does…and there ARE kids at her school just like her; who are stressing out over wanting to play and work at the same time. Maybe she should get to know the “ambitious students” a little better? Lose the Queen Bee chick; she’s just evil!!!</p>
<p>Just out of curiousity, how many girls will graduate in her year from her high school?</p>
<p>I’m with you, Muffy. I’ve encouraged her to try to make friends with the more ambitious kids. But here’s an example of why she has resisted. There are a few of them who are also on her sports team, but they are not varsity level, skip practices to go for after-school tutoring, and rarely if ever show up for team meetings, pasta dinners, T-shirt decorating get-togethers, etc.. So D says that they don’t serve the function of friend because since they are not attending the social events they are therefore not around to hang out with when she needs them. Also, in her school, the vast majority of the academically elite are Indian or Chinese and D is not, so that is a little bit of a barrier (not in her mind really, but the students do self-segregate).</p>
<p>MidwestMom: it’s a pretty good school with good graduation rates, but I think the “American” kids have begun to just give up and cede the academic arena to the “Asian” kids, deciding they’re just smarter.</p>
<p>And on the sports front, there are not nearly as many committed girls are there are boys. If D wants to find someone to run with, especially someone who will make a good effort, she usually has to turn to the boys.</p>
<p>Social relationships are tough in high school. Perhaps your D needs to open up to some new groups at school. She doesn’t have to walk away from all of her friends. Are these other girls in her classes? My D negotiates her way through different sports friends and AP friends and out of school friends. I truly believe having a large network of friends has made things easier for her. Around here senior year poses even more difficult social challenges as the drinking becomes more prevalent. I have seen many changes in social groups/friendships. Just encourage her to make good healthy choices and stay focused on what is important to her. Good Luck!</p>
<p>My two Ds are both extreme achievers. They are my heroes; they’re smarter, more socially polished, and far better-looking than I, and at 18 and 19 they’re much more mature than the majority of adults will ever be. They’re both going to the same Ivy this fall.</p>
<p>But being an outlier is a lonely experience, especially if that kind of academic motivation isn’t the cultural norm of their school. These girls have all the tools with which to be among the most popular people in their surroundings, but in HS they had trouble finding others who wanted to do or talk about the same thing that they did. I counseled D1 multiple times during her upbringing about how her passion for learning would pay off one day, and how she’d meet other young people like herself when she got to college. She was hopeful, but maybe a little skeptical. Then after her sophomore year, she went to our state’s summer Honors Program where she lived for six weeks with other students like herself, and sobbed when it was over. That made the final two years of HS even more lonely.</p>
<p>D1 went off to college two years ago, and it exceeded her wildest dreams. All the traits that made her geeky in HS now make her cool (and, in an ironic twist of teen lingo, also “hot!”). She is sought after for groups, for activities; all the things that make her wonderful are now admired and respected by her peers. She’s astute at getting summer study abroad funded, so for the past two summers she and college friends have been living exotic, international lives studying and socializing in world capitals. I see her HS friends working at the local mall and movie theatres during the summers - nothing at all wrong with that, but they have no idea what the long-range payoff for intellectual passion could be. D2 has visited D1 at college for the last two years, so she knows how her social life is about to change.</p>
<p>If your D can stick it out through HS, it should all become worthwhile. Whatever seeds of loneliness she has to sow right now will produce a thousand-fold if she stays true to her academic interests.</p>
<p>Interesting thread. I’ve been giving this kind of issue some thought because I just let my kid get a Facebook, and his social life has improved tremendously – many more party invites, etc. My kid doesn’t have nearly the “need” for social interaction I do, so while, to me, it feels like his social life is a little lacking, he seems perfectly fine with it.</p>
<p>I knew I was “holding him back” without the Facebook. I’d hear parents and kids talking about everything from parties, club mtgs and homework assignments being posted on Facebook. It’s the new grapevine, and I finally relented. I’m glad I did. </p>
<p>Is your daughter on Facebook? Is it a big deal at her school? I think it’s helped my son feel more connected somehow.</p>
<p>Most of the kids from the team are not taking honors and AP classes. The majority of the kids in her classes fall in the first category, so they don’t provide a social outlet. </p>
<p>D does have Facebook and I agree it usually helps. But, girls in particular tend to use it as a social bragging tool, so it can cut both ways. If you’re inlcuded in the social activities, then you too can post pics of yourself and your friends at the pool or beach or party, and they can post on your wall silly chatter about what you did together that day. But if not…then Facebook can make you feel lonelier because you can see what everyone did w/o you.</p>
<p>That stinks, GFG. I hate Mean Girls. I’m so glad I have a boy.</p>
<p>Is she hesitant to initiate social contact? Why is QBee in the driver’s seat? My son didn’t have a birthday party for years until this year despite his other friends having a party of some sort – movies, flag football, Guitar Hero at the house. I just don’t think he felt confident enough to arrange something. For my son, we had to coach him in the life skill of doing something like that. Would you dd feel comfortable arranging her own outings, with or w/out QB?</p>
<p>I agree with gadad. I think this is pretty typical in high school, and the characteristics that make one be termed a “geek” or a “nerd” are the very qualities that will make her be sought out in college. That’s what happened to our D.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to note that D deliberately stayed away from most girls in high school because of the snarkiness and befriended the boys instead. Two years later, when she came home for the 4th of July, those girls were STILL the same jealous and petty people she knew. So it could be personality based and you just can’t change that.</p>
<p>The week school let out, I suggested D invite 3 girls to come to the beach with us for a few days. She did and I think it went very well and they had a blast. Queen Bee was not invited, and that may be another cause of the current problem, lol. Lately I’ve been encouraging her to invite kids from outside the team to do things. She says yes, but so far hasn’t done so. For 2 years the team group was her social circle, so it might take some time for her to feel confident enough to branch out.</p>
<p>D is not really nerdy. She studies hard but I wouldn’t say she’s super intellectually curious or wants to talk about deep things that her friends don’t. I think she wants to conform and be what she calls “normal”, but her academic and sports success gets held against her such that the “normal” kids don’t think she’s one of them, and she doesn’t think she belongs to the other nerdy, ambitious group.</p>
<p>Team dynamics are very interesting. What grade is your D??? Will the other girls even make it to Varsity level? Perhaps encourage her to spend time with the more commited girls on the team.</p>
<p>D will be a junior this fall. The girls in her (former) social group are varsity, but D is the only one who is very committed and good enough to be recognized on a state or national level.</p>
<p>GFG, it’s funny how different school cultures can be. At D’s school, the jocks are all spending their summers training intensely, attending sports & “leadership” camps, doing SAT prep like mad… </p>
<p>She’s spending much more free time with her theater friends. (Not that she has much down time, though.) They are less driven academically (as a general rule) and are taking advantage of wonderful NYC performance & cultural events with her. I know your D is also a musician. Any chance of reaching out to that group? It might be a more balanced fit for her.</p>
<p>I should note that D’s school does a terrible job of facilitating jock/artists in their pursuit of these dual interests. This year she had to make a heart-breaking choice between her varsity sport & theater. I think the coach was shocked that she picked theater. She did have to do some fence mending with former teammates who couldn’t understand her choice & felt betryayed. They’re teenage girls, remember, and even the jocks can be a bit dramatic!</p>
<p>There will always be petty jealousies whether faced with athletic or academic success. She needs to hold her head high, be her cheerful self and know that there are some things she can’t control. You can offer advice and tools for change but ultimately only she knows when it’s time to move on. I wish her much success and hope she finds her niche and lots of happiness.:)</p>
<p>Bleah… Glad our high school years are almost over!
Glad we had boys.</p>
<p>Agree with the statements about college being SO much better, socially, for a lot of kids who aren’t Queen Bee in high school</p>
<p>Good luck to everyone who has kids going through this yuck.</p>
<p>There is a big transition that often happens in the summer between 10th and 11th grade. All of a sudden, school really matters, and a lot of kids who otherwise didn’t seem to care, suddenly do. Perhaps that will happen to your daughter’s group of “friends,” and it really depends on the school personnel to help that happen. If that is the case, then she will already be on top of the situation, and her friends will try to catch up with her. My D was the same way. Definitely the smartest one in the group, still is, and they all needed her help junior year to get them to the place where they could achieve (at their own levels). So she was sought after, as a resource, and that has resulted, two years later, in her being much more popular than she was before junior year. It is true, though, that after the trials and tribulations of high school, college is SO different socially. D is at Ivy school, and feels like she is home, with her college friends. Not so much, any more, with her high school friends. Betwixt and between a bit, this summer.</p>
<p>I am so glad I never had to face this problem with my kids. At the schools they attended, there was no expectation that the “smart kids” would be antisocial. Some of them were, but not enough to form the norm. </p>
<p>My daughter shifted back and forth among various sets of friends – private school friends, high-academic-achievement public school friends, and bohemian fringe artist friends. She probably went out 4 nights a week, at least for a couple of hours. Her social life was great.</p>
<p>My son was much less social, and mainly hung out at school with the competitive-kid group. He probably didn’t “go out”-go out as often as once a week. But he definitely had a good set of people to talk to at school, and there were a few that he often hung with for a while after school, too, or went to the movies with, plus a small set of non-school friends with whom to play Magic, The Gathering and watch anime DVDs. </p>
<p>I will say – and this may be part of the problem in GFG-land – that there were two huge periods of social instability in my daughter’s precollegiate world: The first half of 7th grade, and the transition from 10th grade to 11th grade. Both times, the girls’ social deck was basically cut and reshuffled. My daughter had a very tight set of 6-8 friends from 7th-10th grades, and the group just completely blew up at the end of 10th grade over shifting preferences about boys, substances, and school. There was maybe about a 10% time-weighted overlap between the girls she spent time with in the spring of 10th grade and the girls she spent time with in the spring of 11th grade. And that was true for the other girls, too. ALL of the social decks seemed to have been cut and re-shuffled at the same time.</p>
<p>franglish…same with D1! She is working at an excellent internship and has no desire to go out with old HS friends. She has definitely moved on.</p>