It's true - NYU financial aid is rotten

<p>quick addition - the social criticisms I made about stern don't really apply to Tisch since the acting studies and film & TV build a close community that you won't find in other schools. Stern tries to do it with "cohorts" but fails miserably.</p>

<p>I feel some of the things that tree was talking about. I work 20 hours a week in addition to my studio hours at Tisch, which are about 22 hours a week, in addition to academics like Writing the Essay and (sort of) Theatre Studies/Production. Sometimes I feel so overworked and it's hard being surrounded by people with a lot more money than me that I feel are having a better New York experience than I am. But ultimately I love being in New York and having Tisch and I wouldn't be happy anywhere else. Even though I could have gotten a great college experience at other schools which gave me virtual full rides, like Northwestern (NYU gave me a LOT but not quite as much as other schools), I feel that the work experience I'm getting as well as just living in the city is better preparing me for the world beyond college and actually living here/getting connections for when I graduate. I'm not partying/getting drunk every night, which I might be more tempted to do if I weren't working. I'm focused and dedicated, partially because my demanding schedule requires me to be organized. Also, my financial situation will drastically improve next year...this year was kind of ehh and I made a few wrong decisions (like choice of dorm...loves Hayden, but it's sooo expensive). But I have so many friends and most of the ones that I hang out with on a regular basis are in Steinhardt, not Tisch. It just goes to show that if you really have the independent, fervent worker spirit to juggle many things at one time, you can.</p>

<p>yikes, 10 classes per semester! How many credits does all that add up to?</p>

<p>I started this threat way back when and it's interesting to me to see it revived.</p>

<p>DD, whose lousy FA from NYU put it out of the picture for her, is attending a wonderful LAC with small classes and minimal bureaucracy. She's made great friends and is receiving a super education. There's plenty to do for fun in the area and the cost has been affordable for us -- no loans at all the first year.</p>

<p>As an educator, I have to say -- If someone can take 10 academic courses in a semester, the classes cannot be particularly challenging.</p>

<p>Ummm....well....that depends on your view of academically challenging. Studio in the Department of Drama is 8 credits/semester, and all of our performance related classes are in this 8 credits. For instance, last semester I had 2 four hour acting classes, and 2 hours a week (per class) of Singing, Ballet, Tai Chi, Vocal Production, Speech (which is closer to a "real" class, since we had an IPA final), and a Theatre History lecture class. Most people, especially on this board, would look at these classes and say that drama majors don't have much work to do. I would say a lot of times most of our work is done in class, but this is also why we have 20-odd hours of class every week for only 8 credits. We do have to do some outside preparation, such as monologue work, etc. Not to mention the psychological toll it takes...after being in studio all day, I'm so tired. Honestly, I would rather take class less and do more outside preparation from a general viewpoint, but this is not possible, obviously, for drama majors, and I love what I do, so...ya. This is in addition to Writing the Essay and Theatre Studies/Production, mind you, and next year Writing the Essay will be replaced with Liberal Arts classes. The upper level Theatre Studies courses are also nothing to scoff at.</p>

<p>Yeah, as an Ed major, I took 7 courses this semester in addition to student teaching (2 credits). They all met once a week except my concentration course, which was a regular sociology course and met twice a week for an hour an 15 minutes (4 credits). Four of my other courses meet for an hour and 50 minutes, for which I get 2 credits. One meets for 2.5 hours and I get 3 credits, and one meets for 50 minutes and I get 1 credit.</p>

<p>This courses are all as challenging as any other courses I've taken on a regular schedule, but the difference is that they require you do a lot more outside reading and preparation before you come to class. The material is covered in class, discussed, analyzed, but there really isn't time for the professors to bring you up to speed if you haven't been doing the amount of work you need to prior to class.</p>

<p>Also, mattistotle, I feel you with the cohort thing. Steinhardt is trying to do that with Ed majors, but it isn't really working out very well.</p>

<p>I have had students who took 7 three-credit courses in a semester. They were pretty stressed but could keep up, even with research papers to write and such. But 10 academic courses?</p>

<p>momfromme, I'll weigh in here because my D is a Tisch graduate (Susan's is a junior at Tisch). You would be mistaken to imagine that the Tisch drama majors have classes that are "not particularly challenging". This is a pre-professional program and my D had 3 days of studio for nine hours each week in addition to her academic classes on the remaining two days. These academic classes included those which are required for the Tisch drama major, in addition to two extra academic classes per semester, for most of her time at NYU. She graduated with a BFA in Drama as well as a second major in English from CAS. Her 'free', and I use the term very loosely, time was spent with many rehearsal hours, tech requirements, and the homework which is resultant of the many hours of classes. In addition to that, she and some friends started a theatre company which involved much time, too! Like Susan's D now, she spent her time at NYU with a very busy lifestyle but managed to find time to see every Broadway show that ran during those four years, and many of the off-Broadway ones. It is possible! Please don't doubt the challenge of the programs these kids are in.</p>

<p>To provide some information to the assumption that taking ten classes implies that they are not very challenging....</p>

<p>I venture to say that being in a BFA program is more intense than taking four regular college classes. It is a professional degree program. </p>

<p>First, let me clarify that I should have said nine classes, not ten, but got confused for a moment because at the beginnging of the semester she was auditing a tenth class where she was going to do all of the work, as she really wanted to do that class too but then realized that it was not possible with all she had on her plate, and had to stop auditing it, and so she actually has nine classes, sorry. Though, come to think of it, she is ALSO in Tisch Scholars where she has required bi-weekly seminar sessions (I guess that is the tenth after all....she must do projects for that as well). </p>

<p>Like AlwaysAMom mentions, three days per week are studio days which are from 9-6 PM. At my D's studio, she is enrolled in six required classes. Several of these classes require a great deal of preparation in which she often has to meet with partners outside of class weekly. On the other two days, she is in academic classes in Theater Studies and other liberal arts subjects (for instance, she just wrote two ten page papers for those). As well, she has to take private voice lessons for credit and must travel uptown weekly for those credits. So, for starters, she is in school full time five daytimes per week. THEN, she is constantly rehearsing at LEAST one show at any given time and that usually requires nightly rehearsals from either 6-10 or 7-11. Then, while not academic, she also is in a coed a capella group that rehearses two nights per week (she sometimes goes from one rehearsal late at night, into another one) and she is the musical director for that group and writes their arrangements, which is very time consuming. This past semester, she also was musically directing a professional piece in the city with rehearsals and performances that involved four times per week. Her shows also require rehearsals sometimes all day Sat. and Sunday as well, with variations here and there. There are hardly any hours "off" from this but when there are, she has to fit in all her homework for the classes....readings, papers, and artistic preparation. She is only allowed to be absent from a studio class twice per semester or her grade is lowered one full letter. Also, to get an A in a studio class, you must have over a 93. </p>

<p>Then, if she has any available hours, she takes professional jobs in the city....musical theater jobs for children, teaching piano, accompaniment, musical direction, all of which pays well but she must fit it in when she can. Needless to say, her schedule is very intense and she usually is out from 8:30 AM (or sometimes earlier to go to the gym before this all begins) until 11 PM or later, when she must start her schoolwork. Her schedule is nothing like a typical college student who has a few hours of class per day. The last word that would ever come to my mind when discussing the rigor of her classes and schedule is "easy." In fact, it is not for the faint of heart and many are unable to hack the intensity and commitment it requires. On top of those regular things I mentioned with the nine classes and the extracurricular commitments which are very time consuming, she tends to take on other projects.....writing her own musical, writing songs to perform at gigs at school and in the city, writing arrangements for others' projects, etc. She also travels and competes with her a capella group. She even has to spend 2 1/2 weeks of her break back at school for full time rehearsals for a production. This coming semester, she'll be doing a different studio and her voice lessons will be on top of her credits because she'll be taking them separately for pay. For anyone who truly knows the work involved in taking nine classes, the preparation for studio classes and then the liberal arts classes, they would tell you it is a VERY challenging load. One must be very driven and motivated to keep up, as these kids are also in ECs (shows, and such) every night and weekend as well and so the hours are filled day and night. Free time is just about nil.</p>

<p>I absolutely believe these programs are challenging. Drama has incredible requirements, for instance. </p>

<p>It's just that a full course load is typically either five or four courses (four is the norm for many LACs). In many places, an overload of more than one over the typical load would require special permission from the dean's office and advisor. So the idea of taking ten full credit courses - double the modal load - is just amazing to me.</p>

<p>I'm going to start this post with "No offense but...", because I'm about to offend some people. </p>

<p>So...</p>

<p>No offense but...</p>

<p>To all future NYU students: Do not take everything that people post on here seriously. If an NYU student has nothing better to do except get on CC and b*tch then OF COURSE that person is going to tell you that he or she is miserable at NYU. Next, do you really want to take college advice from parents who have nothing better to do but get on a forum and brag/complain/reminisce about their kids? My parents are COLLEGE PROFESSORS and they'll be the first ones to admit that they know very little about my high school experiences and will most likely know even less about my future experiences at NYU. They understand that there is a forum for them to go and talk to other people from their generation, it's called TBD. </p>

<p>So basically what I'm trying to say is that the only way us future NYU students will find out if the NYU experience is right for us is to GO TO NYU.</p>

<p>I agree with the idea that every college student has to figure out whether or not a school is right for them, not on other people's opinions, but on their own experiences. However, there are certain characteristics that can be commented on such as the fin. aid that are common problems among current students. I don't think there is a certain way in figuring out exactly how much aid any one student is going to get. There are certain patterns such as school, EFC, academics, etc. But of course, this is nothing new to anyone. I am simply reiterating that NYU is set on not owing anyone anything and even if you get into the school, there is not guarantee that you will get NYU's help in paying for it.
The above comment, however crude, is just like the others. It is an opinion. Generated by one person and not at all fact. I love it here, I got a good fin. aid package, but who knows what's going to happen next year. Grants may disappear, loans may be shaved, etc. Who knows? This is the reality anyone wanting to go to this school or anyone attending this school must be willing to accept - NYU is an extremely fickle school. You must make out of it what you can, but don't come expecting a platter of any sort being handed to you. Aint gonna happen.
As far as the blatant attack on the parents on this forum...don't do it. Some are a tad overzealous in discussing their kids and their amazing HS stats, but most just want to help out. Most just want to talk about the very life-altering decision of where to go to college. Disagree with them if you must, disagree with anyone on this forum. It's completely welcomed. Just do it respectfully and tastefully. After all, who is the person who has nothing better to do than bash people on CC?</p>

<p>Thanks for the reality check. I was a little out of line but I'm still sticking with what I said. I didn't feel I was bashing anyone, though. In fact I think I said what at least a few others are thinking and just don't want to say. I shouldn't have been so harsh and if you read the posts before mine, they were starting to veer off subject. We need more people like you posting, people who attend NYU and enjoy it. I think that I was tasteful and, though harsh, it wasn't anything that I wouldn't size in real life to someone without the alias of a screen name. I'm a bandie and I've had to deal with many parents who love to live vicariously through their children and are very intense about it. However, I do apologize about the lack of subtleness.</p>

<p>Momfromme, I think the difference lies in your perception of "academic classes" -- say, nine classes of physics, history, English, math, etc.-- and the rigors of a studio program. I would bet that the intellectual side of a BFA is equivalent to that of a regular college load but that the rest of the classes are made up of craft -- more creative approaches that are physically and emotionally demanding. I was a drama major at an Ivy League school, and, in addition to a full course load, I spent about 40 hours a week in the theater. That was exhausting as well as challenging. In a pre-professional program, much of that time would have been spent in studio classes.</p>

<p>Momwaitingfornew, What's the difference between a regular program and a pre-professional one? I'm planning on doing a double major so how will my course load compare?</p>

<p>momfromme....one thing that is not comparable with regard to the number of courses taken is that you may be comparing apples to oranges since one scenario is a BA and one is a BFA. I have a child in a BA university and she takes four courses. The one in the BFA has more courses and more hours of class. The nature of the degree is very different.</p>

<p>Julia....in case you do not realize it, College Confidential is made up of discussion forums on which participants include high school students, current college students, parents of high school students, parents of college students, college representatives (adcoms, faculty, department heads), college counselors, and other professionals. It is NOT just for students. Sorry if you thought so. I see that you just joined CC this month. Welcome. Perhaps you have not been around long enough to see that all these adults and young adults all participate on CC's forums. In fact, if you read around, you will see the NUMEROUS adults here who have HELPED students seeking advice. As far as myself, I have been on CC 5 1/2 years. Yes, I am a parent and I also post on the parent forums on CC. I also post on other
CC forums and often try to help out students and other parents when I can, regarding college admissions topics. I happen to also be a college counselor and advise juniors and seniors applying to college as my job. When I post on CC, I am just volunteering. But this topic is what I do in my work as well. Some of my posts are just with a parent hat on and sharing experiences. LOTS of adults and students do that in the CC community. </p>

<p>I can't share first hand experiences at NYU. A prospective student will hopefully seek out and talk with current NYU students. I can only offer information and share what I know, and in this case, about NYU, since I do have a daughter who is a junior there (and in the case of this thread, she is on financial aid and scholarships). I don't know everything my kids do but I do know the basic information about their schedules, courses, extracurricular activities, financial aid, living arrangements and the like. After all, I am paying for it. They are very independent. But I surely can share what I know is involved in their being a student at these schools. I can't share their opinions for them. I can pass on what they have openly chosen to tell me about their experiences. They choose to share about their lives. Their decisions are all their own but they do tell us what they are involved in. They chose their own schools and we never opined about where they ought to go. But we are interested in what they share. </p>

<p>The parents who are participating on CC are not bragging and complaining but are sharing experiences and also in many many cases, helping others going through similar processes, in supportive ways. Those who read the posts can take or leave what they read. They may not value or be interested in posts and that's fine....they can skip them. Some students (and other parents) are interested in perspectives about schools or the college admissions process. Hopefully, they can discern what is fact and what is opinion. When opinions are shared, they hopefully garner a range of perspectives and weigh the total picture and do not put too much stock in any one singular opinion or perspective. I know when my kids were applying to college, they were interested in talking to those who were familiar with the schools. It is true you won't know what it is like until you attend but juniors and seniors need to weigh their options, visit schools, talk to current students and even current parents of students, and glean as much information and perspectives as they can. CC is one place where they can do that.</p>

<p>By the way, it is not "better" that your parents know very little about your HS experiences. It is just different. Some parents know what their kids are involved in because their kids do not mind sharing and the parents are keenly interested, even though their kids are independent and make their own decisions and choices. Parents can let their kids "go" but still be interested and know what they are involved in.</p>

<p>Julia, I can't say how a double major will work, but I do know that you must apply to a specific school at NYU. If you want drama/film, you apply to Tisch. If you want business, you apply to Stern. For more traditional majors, you might apply to the CAS. I'm not sure you can double major using two different schools. Maybe Soozie can clarify about the possibilities.</p>

<p>I will apologize again. I am sorry. I was out of line. I did not feel as if what I was saying was that mean but I was obviously mistaken. I will not let it happen again. However, I have seen post that were (in my opinion) more hostile than mine and they attracted a lot less attention. I suppose that a few pointed words can be ore harmful than all the profanities in the world combined if they are choses wisely. Again, I am sorry.</p>

<p>I'm already in and I want to do a double major in Neural Science and Journalism.</p>

<p>Julia, the difference between the BFA (which I guess is what you mean by "pre-professional") and the BA is that there are more of your major requirements in the form of studio (meaning more performance and visual art classes, for instance) in your major than in the BA. For instance, a BFA visual art major will take anywhere between 60 and even 90% visual arts classes as REQUIRED for the major (the rest being electives/gen ed) as opposed to a BA history major, whose typical major requirements are generally around 30% of the degree (of course it varies from school to school). I'm in a BFA program at Tisch, but I'm going to double major next year in CAS...I can do this at NYU because I will concentrate my general education/electives into a single concentration for the second major. NYU offers enough gen ed and free electives to BFA students enough to do this but at the same time having intense BFA training (part of the reason why I LOVE NYU).</p>