<p>What classes will I buy taking as a Freshman? I haven't taken calculus yet, took AP Statistics instead as a senior. I got a 3 on Lang but probably got a 4 on Lit last week. I'm assuming 2 math classes but what else?</p>
<p>You might find the two other threads on this topic helpful.</p>
<p>Start with pages 13-14 of the current Kelley bulletin. Also, look for the 2014 version to come out, maybe this summer.
<a href=“Indiana University Bloomington”>Indiana University Bloomington;
<p>Also look at the general education requirements for all IUB undergraduates:
<a href=“Indiana University Bloomington”>Indiana University Bloomington;
<p>The new general education requirements for students matriculating in Fall 2014 will show up here after they are published:
<a href=“Indiana University Bloomington”>Indiana University Bloomington;
<p>Since you are a direct admit I would take advantage of taking as many business courses as possible. Personally a lot of my friends were direct admits but didn’t take many business courses so they are on the same track as me (standard admit). Many people will tell you to only take 13-14 credits but if you do that you’ll just feel bored especially since you seem like a smart person. Since I just finished my freshman year here are a list of classes I would advise you to take.</p>
<p>Fall
BUS-K 201
BUS-C 104
BUS-A 100
MATH-M 118
ECON-E 201
Easy A&H Class</p>
<p>Spring
BUS-A 201
MATH-M 119
BUS-G 202
BUS-T 175
Easy N&M Class
Easy A&H Class</p>
<p>The above schedule would free up your sophomore year more as you knock out quite a few I-Core pre-reqs and take care of your GenEd classes. A couple things that would be useful in helping you would be:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Do you know if you are interested in studying abroad or studying a language at IU? If not then you might want to find classes that cover both A&H and WC credit.</p></li>
<li><p>Are you exempt from taking ENG-W 131? If no then I would strongly recommend taking it over the summer sometime because it is graded very tough at IU-Bloomington.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Also when I put “easy” in front of N&M and A&H that means only choose lower 100 level courses and try to stay away from philosophy and/or political theory/science courses.</p>
<p>If you would like more help I could recommend some A&H and N&M courses that are fairly easy.</p>
<p>Is taking Econ - E201 first semester with the other classes you list a good idea? Isn’t this a difficult class with a lot of work? You show Bus-G 202 in Spring semester. I thought the Kelley bulletin says to take this class in sophomore year. Can you really push it up to first year ( Econ 201 is a pre-req)? </p>
<p>Maddie26, you are a direct admit, which gives you lots of flexibility in the classes you can take. You can avoid taking many of IUB’s more difficult and time-consuming Icore prerequisites by taking them at a community college this summer and next summer. Tough grading classes at IUB include microecon, macroecon, and finite math. If you take them at a cc and get a “C” in them, the credit for these classes will transfer to IUB/Kelley as a “pass” grade and will not affect your gpa. Other Icore prereqs or required classes that often transfer are W131, L201 business law, calculus, A201 and A202 (the last two will not transfer from Ivy Tech community college system in Indiana). You can look at the Credit Transfer website to see which classes transfer from which schools in the US. A lot depends on what state you live in.
<a href=“http://cts.admissions.indiana.edu/”>http://cts.admissions.indiana.edu/</a></p>
<p>A lot of direct admits that are trying to get into the business honors program take only 12 or 13 credits their freshman year. They often have lots of credits coming in to IUB or take summer cc classes. The advantage to taking a light course load is that you will have more time to focus on building strong extra curriculars for your application to business honors. Also, you need a minimum of 3.7 gpa to apply for business honors, and courses like finite and micro- and macroeconomics grade very tough at IUB. (Also, do not take Math M211 if you test into it at freshmen orientation. It is fairly easy to test into the class, but many freshmen who test in and take it do very poorly in M211. You don’t need M211 for Kelley; M119 is a much easier alternative. Also, taking A201 at IUB freshman year is risky if you are trying for business honors). Taking a light full-time course load will allow you to network more and attend recruiting events, too. Do all these things and you will not be bored.</p>
<p>Are you also in Hutton Honors College. If so, you will be able to take honors versions of many Icore prerequisites in Kelley. K204 is a good honors course for students trying to get into business honors.
<a href=“Undergraduate | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Indiana Kelley”>Undergraduate | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Indiana Kelley;
<p><a href=“Grade Distribution: Reporting Services: Reporting & Security: Office of the Registrar: Indiana University”>http://registrar.indiana.edu/reporting/reports/grade-distribution.shtml</a></p>
<p>My D is a direct admit to Kelley this fall and is also in Hutton honors. We are OOS. I’ve seen many posts ( such as the one from bthomp1 above) about taking classes at community colleges in order to obtain a high GPA in Kelley as some IU classes grade tough. But shouldn’t a very good student do well or reasonably well with an A or B grade in all these classes ( like M211, M118, econ 211)? I’m all for a high GPA and possibly getting into business honors, but why should my D take only 12-13 credits? I don’t agree with this approach. Kelley is a great business school and we are impressed with IU so I think she should take all her classes at IU and whatever grades she gets so be it. She is working on various versions of freshman schedules now and is shooting for 15-16 credits both semesters of freshman year. I think she will be able to handle it and also participate in extracurriculars. Does anyone else think the way I am thinking? Or convince me my thought process is flawed. </p>
<p>racquetdad - I’m with you. I’ve read many comments on these threads about how hard certain classes are and how students should definitely take them at Ivy Tech over the summer. So I asked my oldest daughter, who is a senior, and she told me as long as you keep up and do your homework, they aren’t hard. She was a direct admit to Kelley, is an accounting/management double major, with minors in international business and Spanish, and has gotten straight A’s all years, except for one B+ in managerial accounting (she said she wasn’t into that class and didn’t do all the homework and tried to skate by, so not really her best effort). She is very good at math and said Finite was ridiculously easy - got an A+. She did take accounting in high school, so was well prepared for A-100 and got an A+ in that as well. She said microecon was also very easy - she did so well, she got a letter from the econ department asking her to consider majoring in econ. This is not to brag about my kid - she is not a genius by any means. She had some AP classes in high school but not nearly as many as some kids take. What helped her was that she was not a partier AT ALL, and she WANTED to do well in her classes. She did have a job, and was active in Beta Alpha Psi and various other clubs and became a regular exerciser for the first time in her life, so she was definitely not studying all the time (her netflix activity could vouch for that!). To be completely honest, if you were to ask her, she would say there are a lot of idiots at IU who don’t try and who just blow things off and classes have generous curves, so do your work and you will come out ahead of all the slackers. If your daughter gets into the active party scene at IU, then, yes, it may be a struggle to keep up with 15-16 credits because many kids just go wild their freshman year. But if she takes her classes seriously, then she shouldn’t have a problem. Honestly, if your daughter has taken a rigorous enough course load in high school - lots of AP and honors classes - and she is mature enough to not become a wild partier, she should have no problem at IU. And you are paying for an education at IU, not Ivy Tech, so make the most of what you get at IU.</p>
<p>raquetdad - It could go either way. My daughter is Direct Admit/Hutton Honors and was selected for Kelley Honors. She attended all classes - some are ridiculously easy (Compass) and others can depend on your child’s aptitude, the group she is assigned to for projects, and the luck of the instructor draw. My daughter squeaked out an A- in M119 through hard work and tutoring sessions. Her M119 instructor was very nice but he barely spoke English and wasn’t really skilled at teaching. She didn’t want to risk Finite so took it at a community college and breezed through it with an easy A and wonders if she should have taken just taken it at IU. She wishes she could have taken Stats at CC - she struggled in that class and friends with different instructors did much better. One last thought, is your daughter competitive? How she will feel if others have higher GPAs due to “working the system”. The grade point scale at IU may be different than your high school (A+/A = 4.0, A- = 3.7, B+ = 3.3 ). </p>
<p>maddie26 Sorry if I diverted your thread. But my questions/views do relate to freshman classes and any responses should be helpful.</p>
<p>Michhoos- I really liked your response! Glad I am not on an island by myself on this. My D is similar to your D. Any other views, especially from the regular contributors that post on the IU CC site would be appreciated.</p>
<p>WistfullThinking- I do understand the variables here such as and instructor that barely speaks English and the other students you do group projects with. These some of the roadblocks/challenges that students must learn to deal with. My D is competitive and will want to do well in all her classes. The GPA scale at IU is the same as our high school. I don’t thing she will be concerned about other student’s GPAs. With so many students in the business school, I’m sure there will be plenty with higher and lower GPAs than her’s. </p>
<p>I’ve seen a Kelley scholar, Presidential Scholar, and Wells Scholar screw up royally because they came in freshman year with an inflated sense of what they could handle. Take whatever schedule you can handle freshman year. But understand that if you’re like most DA/Hutton students, the opportunities you hope to take advantage of implicity require a 3.9+ GPA freshman year. That leaves very little room for error. </p>
<p>One thing I’ve come to realize at Kelley is that every year, your GPA becomes less & less important. The tough part is that while your freshman GPA is the most important, it’s also the most sensitive to a single bad grade. Firms may be more interested in non-GPA things when you’re going through full-time and internship recruiting, but so many of those opportunities that will impress them, rely on you having a near-perfect GPA during your first three semesters. </p>
<p>Freshman year: </p>
<p>You apply for Kelley Honors with only 26-32 hours of college coursework, but you have to have a 3.7 to apply, and a 3.8+ certainly helps. With only 30 hours of college coursework, one bad grade (even a B) can keep you out of Kelley Honors. That’s a lot of opportunities (and a much better I-core experience) to give up just so you can take M211. </p>
<p>You will also be applying for freshman programs with companies that will expect GPAs in the 3.9+ range. </p>
<p>Sophomore year:</p>
<p>Workshop applications happen in the spring and will only take into account your first three semesters. I know quite a few people who packed their spring sophomore semester with the more difficult I-core prerequisites in order to keep them off their applications. </p>
<p>Firm’s summer leadership programs will be recruiting during the spring as well. GPA is a big factor in this, and participating in them will be huge for getting a summer internship after junior year. </p>
<p>So many of the great opportunities Kelley offers rely on having a very strong GPA during your first three semesters which is why I think people are smart to be so protective of it. After sophomore year, firms seem to have a GPA range they want, but seem to focus more on other factors as long as you are in that range. </p>
<p>I’ll add though that I do think only taking 12-13 credit hours per semester freshman year is a bit too conservative, but I’m sure it works for some students. </p>
<p>raquetdad - I have “lurked” on this site for a while and only recently posted. I love that this forum provides the benefit of experienced students’ and parents’ opinions so my daughter and I can decide what is best for her. You might be surprised but I felt similar to you when I first started reading this forum two years ago - “Why the strong push to take community college classes?” My daughter was a direct admit/honors student so we didn’t think the advice was relevant (much of the Kelley advice on here is targeted to standard admits hoping to get into Kelley). So, she did not take CC classes the summer before her freshman year. However, last summer after her freshman year she did take two classes to free up room in her sophomore schedule for coursework outside of Business. The cost was minimal (we are OOO and the CC courses were accepted by Kelley), it reduced potential stress, and freed up room to potentially study abroad. Her regret - not taking a class the summer BEFORE freshman year. 
Please don’t take this response as defensive - in my opinion there is not a right or a wrong way. Take what you learn here so you and your daughter can plan/decide what is best in her particular situation. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Good info in this thread that confirms other data I have seen.</p>
<p>On the advice of others my son will be taking Finite and English Comp this summer at the local CC. He will likely be taking the Econ weed-outs next summer. </p>
<p>Since he will be coming in as a Direct Admit with other college credit and several AP credits including Calculus, we saw no reason to waste time in giant weed-out courses at IU. Why IU places kids in Finite when they’re coming in with AP Calculus credits is a mystery to me. The Finite syllabus looks like the math my kid took in Junior year.</p>
<p>He’ll start at IU this fall already having 26 credit hours, so he’ll almost be a Sophomore walking in the door. Hopefully this will allow him to take a lighter schedule, participate in more EC’s and focus on graduating in 4 years with a stellar GPA. :-)</p>
<p>While I heartily agree that OOS students like my son paying 40k a year should get their money’s worth at IU, there is no meaningful difference in these 100-level courses at IU vs a decent community college. Maintaining the freshman GPA is paramount given everything I have read here and elsewhere, so why not take advantage of every opportunity to lighten the initial load?</p>
<p>It’s a pity, but gone are the days when picking challenging courses was respected above raw GPA numbers. Since every single presentation at Kelley is focused on employment and career development, it’s painfully obvious that undergrads are getting fewer and fewer chances to stumble. With the crazy big incoming class size at Kelley, staying above the curve is more important than ever. Kelley needs to stop admitting so many kids as they are diluting their brand IMHO, but that’s a bit off the topic.</p>
<p>I see employers playing the same selection games. Recruiters could care less that you took a tougher schedule, challenged and enriched yourself, they just want to pick a number and establish a cutoff. This is the same elsewhere.</p>
<p>I personally know a HS valedictorian who attended Notre Dame for Finance, graduated as class president, and still barely made the cut to interview with top companies because he let his GPA slip a bit. When companies recruit at top schools like Kelley, they don’t have time to interview all 1000+ grads, they just want to talk to the cream. Of course, after that first job, nobody cares about your undergrad GPA again until you try to get into an MBA program.</p>
<p>I wish the world our kids are preparing for was a bit more holistic and equitable, but it’s not. Play time is over.</p>
<p>These are great discussion. Your CC/local IU classes will provide some relief for students who need to go through the standard admission. They can also help direct Kelley admitted students to get into the classes they like. As I posted here before, Kelley added quite a few courses such as T175, D270/271, T275, and T375. It could be a struggle if your student would like to fit a double major or double minor, rush three fraternities/sororities, join three clubs, etc. Keeping a GPA of 3.8 in the 1st three semesters is not necessarily easy especially if we include the 300 level of math, econ, and business courses. But, I do think that the workshop professors would take these courses into consideration in the application. </p>
<p>While looking for the best courses for DS3, I have compiled a list of classes with the best professors over the past year (below). Some of them may be tough. But, I believe that these professors may change your student’s life. You can search on ratemyprofessor.com and IU’s grade distribution.</p>
<p>1) REL-A 210 INTR OLD TESTAMNT/HEBREW BIBLE (3 CR)
CLSD 25122 09:30A-10:45A MW WH 003 Mroczek E<br>
2) CLAS-C 205 CLASSICAL MYTHOLOGY (3 CR)
1766 RSTR 01:25P-02:15P MWF MO 007 Regan A<br>
3) FRIT-M 222 TOPICS IN ITALIAN CULTURE (3 CR)
VT: CULTURES OF ITAL RENAISSANCE
CLSD 20420 11:15A-12:30P TR BH 247 Scalabrini M
4) HON-BI 300 BI:HON-H 300/FINA-A 341 (4 CR)
32421 RSTR 02:30P-03:45P TR FA 010 Facos M
5) HON-BN 299 BN:HON-H 299/POLS-Y 200 (4 CR)
9440 RSTR 04:00P-05:15P MW HD TBA Barbour D<br>
6) HON-H 235 RELIG IN LIT, MUS, ART, & PERF (3 CR)
VT: MONKS, NUNS AND MEDIEVAL ART
30395 RSTR 11:15A-12:30P TR HU 217 Reilly D<br>
7) HON H233 32736 Storytelling in Film, Fiction, and Photography
Prof. Hedin TuTh 9:30-10:45 a.m. EO B01
8) HON-H 211 IDEAS AND EXPERIENCE I (3 CR)
3338 RSTR 01:00P-02:15P MW HU 108 Cecil R<br>
9) BUS G345 - 14511 02:30P-03:45P TR HH 3000 Hauskrecht A<br>
10) Econ E321 - CLSD 17840 02:30P-03:45P MW WY 015 Williams A (It is amazing that many students are willing to take this class with only 5% getting A.)</p>
<p>These professors, and others like them, make learning at IU even better than at many top 20 schools. I was very disappointed that DS3 couldn’t take more of these due to the new Kelley required courses. But, I am pleased that he enjoys reading New Yorker now. </p>
<p>Econ E-321 is where Kelley student’s econ minor dreams go to die. It’s required for econ minors and it’s when many Kelley students give up on that. </p>
<p>IU/Kelley is two track system freshman year, with direct admits experiencing absolutely no stress freshman year about retaining their place in Kelley and UD students trying to get into Kelley probably being overwhelmed with the stress of whether will they get accepted. Most of the advice I give is directed toward the latter group. It really isn’t that tough to get accepted if you just do the minimum, so I preach the minimum to the point of banality, because most people can’t resist trying to do more than is required. Community college plays a big role in this approach because, if you are doing the minimum your freshman year at IUB in order to not slip up in trying to get accepted into Kelley, then you will need to catch up through cc courses the summer before and/or after your freshman year. You probably won’t be losing many internship opportunities those two summers anyway. It isn’t gaming the system. It is doing everything you can to increase your chances of getting accepted to Kelley. That is usually the only reason you are at IUB to begin with. After getting accepted, that leaves you three years at one of the best business schools in the country to extend yourself, grow intellectually, take chances, and see where you fit in with and against a lot of the extremely bright students who were directly admitted to the program. </p>
<p>I steer people away from E201, M211, and to a lesser degree finite (I think calculus is way less quirky, and far easier to prepare for on your own before you start the class). You don’t need E201, M211, and finite to get accpeted to Kelley. E201, finite, and M211 are high risk “double-down” classes for those seeking admission to Kelley, in the sense that you don’t need to take them in the first place, and when you do take them and wind up with a C average after the mid-term, the tempation is to double-down and try for an A on the final in order to get your solid B for Kelley admissions purposes. The odds of getting a D or F on the final after getting a C on the mid term are way higher than getting an A on the final (especially for M211). So a very high percentage of students that are trying to get into Kelley leave E201, finite, and M211 with a C- or lower (for M211: 500 out of 1100 in fall 2013!; probably 800 of the 975 students who took the class were in their first semester of college), which pretty much ends any Kelley hopefuls’ chances of getting into Kelley. Compare the grade distribution for E201, M118, and M211 and you will find a much higher percentage D’s and F’s than most classes as, rather than take a “W” (also very bad for Kelley standard admission chances), students who got low grades on the mid-term doubled down trying to get an A on the final and wound up with a grade that was almost guaranteed to keep them out of Kelley. Most of these students should not have enrolled in these classes until after getting accepted into Kelley (when they could have got by with a solid C), or have taken equivalent classes elsewhere.</p>
<p><a href=“Grade Distribution Reports: Reporting & Security: Office of the Registrar: Indiana University Bloomington”>Grade Distribution Reports: Reporting & Security: Office of the Registrar: Indiana University Bloomington;
<p><a href=“Grade Distribution Reports: Reporting & Security: Office of the Registrar: Indiana University Bloomington”>Grade Distribution Reports: Reporting & Security: Office of the Registrar: Indiana University Bloomington;
<p>I would argue that there is no difference between AP and community college credit. Quantitatively, they are the same. The credit either transfers to IU or it doesn’t. Neither type affects your gpa, and both help with major program and graduation requirements. Qualitatively, the cc credit may be more useful, since AP courses can generally be taken two or three years earlier than cc courses in most cases, and you will therefore be more likely to remember the cc content when you draw on it for Kelley upper-level classes. I doubt that any of the Icore prerequisites taught at IUB are significantly more valuable than their AP and cc equivalents. K201 and X201 are the most important Icore prereqs, and you can only get credit for them at IUB anyway. </p>
<p>CC classes are a great way to get the benefits of AP credit for students that did not have the opportunity to take AP classes or did not take them for some other reason. The biggest benefit of both types of credit is that they can lessen stress and create time to explore opportunities during fall and spring semesters at IUB through smaller course loads and by creating many more possibilities with the extra free time for EC’s and networking, which are crucial these days for getting accepted to special programs and workshops at Kelley and forming relationships with recruiters. The extra credit hours earned prior to Icore can also be very valuable in getting the classes you need at decent times after Icore, since registration order is determined by credits earned. There is almost always a most desired professor (Parry for A312, for example) for courses taught by one or more professors, and the students with the most credit hours are the only ones that have a chance of getting that professor.</p>
<p>Ace, isn’t ironic with all the hype about IUB’s new “gen ed” requirements that Kelley requires so few liberal arts courses now, compared to the “27 credit hour core” days, which was only a few years ago? I always thought that B.A./B.S. business programs required half liberal arts courses and half business courses. My son took an honors Italian lit course with Scalabrini and really enjoyed it. He probably wouldn’t take that course today, given current Kelley graduation requirements.</p>
<p>Take advantage of online classes offered through Ivy Tech. Classes that you can take through there are:
ECON-E 201, ECON-E 202, MATH-M 118, MATH-M 119, BUS-L 201, and ENG-W 131. Those are the way they are listed at IU so to lookup on Ivy Tech you may have to look at the IU transfer credit website.</p>
<p>Thanks for the good debate and info here. </p>
<p>hkem123 you mention “workshop applications happen in the spring and will only take into account your first three semesters” and “firm’s summer leadership programs will be recruiting in the spring as well”. Can you or someone familiar with these programs briefly explain what these workshops and leadership programs are. My D want to be a corporate finance major ( not accounting or investment banking). Would these workshops and/or leadership programs apply to her sophomore year?</p>