<p>You do know that you actually do not have equal rights under the Constitution at this point, right? My D2 learned this year that the ERA never passed, and could not figure out what was wrong with our generation. I had no good explanation…</p>
<p>And studies like this one indicate that there is still work do to for the feminist movement in this country. You may not like feminism “in your face”… but do you want your daughter to be paid less than a male student coming out of college into exactly the same job with the same qualifications?</p>
<p>I wrote out an entire response to this but as I said I don’t need to justify my opinions to you. I know what I believe in and nothing you say could change it. I cannot change your view points. I don’t want to post a counter argument because I don’t want a response from you or to continue this. Just know what you’re saying isn’t half as clear cut as you think. Goodbye.</p>
<p>Well… that probably says it all. Reminds me of one of D2’s classmates who was certain in his beliefs and went to tremendous lengths to only listen to and read things that reinforced those beliefs. He started with a belief and went hunting for the facts to support them. All facts that did not suit his original belief were irrelevant in his mind. And he would nitpick a tiny thing (tampon earrings?) to offset larger and concrete evidence that maybe he was missing the bigger picture. This conversation is sort of like that.</p>
<p>Oh my god. Could you actually just stop? I don’t want to continue a petty argument over a college forum, if this makes you feel like a smarter, better, more educated person over dumb little wants to be paid less, wants less rights me than I’m sorry to end it for you. </p>
<p>I had responses to your argument in the last post, I don’t want to continue fighting with you because I’ve heard your argument from countless others. I’ve read articles, editorials, and blogs that agree with what you’ve said and I’ve still found justification for my opinion. I don’t shut out other sources, I know my responses. I just don’t feel like typing them out to you who is never going to agree with them and is going to condescendingly criticize me.</p>
<p>I find it funny that you found my statement that I know where I stand and nothing you could say could change my opinion as a bad one. You clearly have your opinions on both feminism and the OP’s opinions that will never be changed, yet this is somehow appropriate because you have what you to believe to be the tolerant, right ones. That is so hypocritical.</p>
<p>Are you really that intolerant that I can’t have my own opinion without being a narrow minded uneducated fool? Wow. Nice to see a parent picking on another 17 year old girl.</p>
<p>Yup… she will know better than to come gay-bashing out here. I have a gay kid, and think it would be a pretty horrible experience for her to end up with someone as close-minded as the OP as a roommate. Let’s talk about what my kid should do if that happens… to make her roommate happy, should try to she hide the fact that she is gay? Should she not live in the dorms because delicate little snowflakes like the OP might be offended if they realize she is dating another girl? Should she only attend the top 25 Campus Pride colleges so the OP can be more comfy?</p>
<p>And no… I won’t stop on the OP’s comment about “not being a feminist”. There are no legitimate studies that show that somehow women magically DO make the same amount as men do with exactly the same credentials in exactly the same jobs coming out of college. When you believe is false, you need to really examine whether you do have all the facts. Maybe a 17 year old is still young enough to consider some facts instead of settling into what she “knows” without actually studying or considering the facts. It would probably be really, really good for the OP to attend a college where everyone does not conform to what she already thinks she knows.</p>
<p>Stop the hatefest. The OP asked a legitimate question about her concerns. Isn’t FIT important anymore? Is she not supposed to think about how well she will fit into these colleges? </p>
<p>The OP has already written that she is not a homophobe; who are we to judge her? I sometimes find some gays (and their advocates) to be the most intolerant group; how ironic.</p>
<p>Begin? Thought we had already been doing that… but regardless of all the opinions of conservative parents out here, I would like to see the OP answer the question of what she would expect if she ends up with a gay roommate. Which definitely could happen even if she does not attend one of the schools on her list. Does she have a specific list of what “in your face” behaviors would be?</p>
<p>And… as people keep pointing out, you can’t say “I’m not a homophobe, BUT…” and then make homophobic statements. At least not with any credibility. The OP is judging a whole group of people in the original post. She really hasn’t listed the specifics of where her tolerance borders lie. Would like to see her get more granular in the distinction of what “in your face” gay behavior actually is.</p>
<p>Intparent, I’m sure the OP will never return to CC again. If you were trying to show her her behavior was wrong, you failed. I can guarantee she’s feel bullied, belittled, and harassed. </p>
<p>I’m sorry your daughter had a negative experience in college due to people being uncomfortable with her sexuality but that doesn’t excuse this behavior. This thread has degenerated into you continually attacking someone who isn’t here because they feel so attacked and disrespected they left, while bystanders just beg you to relax and let it go.</p>
<p>So please, everyone here understands your perspective on all issues discussed , but you’re not winning anyone over by continuing this. Let. It. Go.</p>
<p>kickmeoff, you aren’t listening very well. My D will be a freshman this fall. So will be meeting a new roommate in a week. Hoping very, very hard that her roommate does not have (uninformed) attitudes like the OP’s. Hoping the OP at least gives some consideration to the fact that her attitudes are very offensive to gay students and their friends & families. Sorry to say that I suspect parents like those who have made the past several posts probably encourage their kids in this type of behavior.</p>
Perhaps. But my point is that the OP didn’t sound like she felt like arguing or debating anyone. I feel like y’all could have let her know your POVs (“no, a high LGBTQ population at a school will not affect you in any way, and stereotypes about them are untrue and can be offensive”) without attacking her, and she would have listened.</p>
<p>
So I’m not allowed to believe that women should vote without believing that men holding doors open is sexist?
kickmeoff was clear that the feminism associated with radical, modern day feminism is the one that she opposed. That shouldn’t be taken to mean that she doesn’t appreciate voting rights.</p>
<p>
You keep harping on this when I’ve already addressed that when OP said she wasn’t a feminist she may not have meant this at all. There are many women who believe that men and women deserve equal pay who don’t call themselves feminist.
You can say that those women don’t know the real definition of “feminist” (though, as I mentioned before, definitions depend on how people use words, not the other way around; but, either way, a definition isn’t horribly significant). But you need to stop accusing everyone who doesn’t call themselves a feminist of being against, or not caring for, women’s rights. The fact of the matter is that that’s not true.</p>
<p>Y’all just keep wanting to make up your own definitions and facts. You can’t have it both ways. “I am not homophobic, but”… don’t want to be around gay people. “I am not a feminist”… but you say you support and care about women’s rights. The OED (which I consider to be pretty much the most reliable source in the English language) says feminism is “the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.”. So… you are trying to make up your own definitions and facts. You can do so as noisily and often as you like, but it doesn’t make them right. And then falling back on what you “believe” (without any facts I have seen to back them up) doesn’t improve your case.</p>
<p>Kickmeoff keeps saying she doesn’t want to talk about this any more. Then… she keeps posting. I am happy to talk about it all day, but really would prefer to talk to the OP vs. you guys. Still want to know what the OP would want in behavior from a gay roommate – this is actually a topic of personal interest to me, and I assume to the OP as well.</p>
<p>intparent… hope your daughter has a wonderful college experience…but you had a great opportunity with the op and imo you lost it… it would have been wonderful to let the op know that your daughter is about to go to college and that she is gay and has concerns about how people will view her too. that part of going to college is to learn new things, experience new things, open your mind to ideas, that there is more to college than classrooms and text books, that roommates or fellow students may be different but all should be respected., explain that your daughter and gay people arent trying to “convert” anyone. they are just like the op, as the op had concerns about how gay people will act, so your daughter has concerns about how straight people will act towards her (or at least you have concerns). many would appreciate another’s view of a situation, rather than being ridiculed because her concerns seem ridiculous to you</p>
<p>And the first few posts were trying to (including my first post). But the OP has not really made a coherent post since then… no response to any of the questions or comments. Just conservative parents jumping to assure the rest of us of what the OP meant to say. </p>
<p>And the OP still has a great opportunity to engage in a discussion of what she would expect in a situation where she has to interact with gay students. She is free to post, and in my experience no one starts a thread like this and stops reading it. She is still reading…</p>
<p>Ahhh…so much discussion. Too much info to absorb to make a insightful comment. But I’m with inparent 100%. Honestly, how can anyone not see the underlying bigotry going on when someone says “I don’t want <em>insert group of people</em> in my face”, yet claiming that you are not bothered by those people.</p>
<p>No one has ‘attacked’ OP- it’s called being tough and direct, which is needed in a conversation like this.</p>
<p>Intparent, I have PMed her so I believe I have a better opinion on what she believes than the person continuously attacking her. She thanked me for defending her and I have sent her two messages since and she has not responded, presumably because she’s sick of you and of being attacked. </p>
<p>I respond not because I want to continue this but because I refuse to let you slander me and the OP and present your completely hateful viewpoints and speak down to everyone in this thread, which you consider as combatting hate. You may notice I stopped arguing with you about feminism, etc., just your ethics as a person. </p>
<p>All I ask is you stop pointing fingers at all the “intolerant” people in this thread and look a little at what you’ve said.</p>
<p>No matter what Pbunny’s intention nay have been, the phrasing of the original post was objectionable. Confronted about that, Pbunny could have said, “You’re right. I said that badly, and I’m sorry for any offense I gave,” or even, “I don’t understand what I said that was offensive. Could somebody explain?” Instead, she defended the offensive wording and told people to back off.</p>
<p>She’s still a kid, and I’m sorry she’s unhappy. But I’d be a lot sorrier if I could recall any sign of regret that she’d offended people.</p>
<p>Ok, none of this is productive at all. OPs post, whether intentional or not, made it sound like my very existence was inconveniencing her in some manner. Attempts by others and me to show how this was offensive were met with cries that we were attacking her and not tolerating her beliefs. This lead to escalation, and here we are.</p>
<p>I am sorry for my involvement in this controversy, and extend my apologies to those I offended. I still maintain that at nowhere OP attends will gays be in her face, as that is a ridiculous assertion, but I will refrain from further comment.</p>