<p>No one is saying they’re mutually exclusive, just not necessarily great indicators of success unless you have a very narrow definition of success.</p>
<p>To me, success is for me to be happy each day of my life. What that requires is unique to me, and it happens to not include MIT as a grad school, more ambition to compete against fellow classmates for prestigious scholarships, and even further attempts to separate myself out from the top 1-2%. I’ve shown that already, now it’s my turn to explore academically, take chances, learn what I really want to learn, etc etc. For me, that doesn’t always mean getting an A, it means taking harder courses that are further from my natural abilities and pushing my ass to get a B rather than taking the easy route, or taking a route through which I bust my ass to get all As to end up somewhere that I don’t need or want to be.</p>
<p>Parents think that great grad schools, great scholarship, constant competition and differentiating oneself from the herd is a great thing-- it’s not always, and it’s sometimes the unhealthy choice. Students who are motivated to learn for themselves and not to beat other students on the curve end up with different life and career ambitions. It’s not a lost opportunity if that so-called “opportunity” is not one for that student, and most of the time that is teh case.</p>
<p>MIT grad school, for instance, is notorious for it’s cut throat, dog eats dog nature. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to ace my concentration taking easier courses in my concentration and studying my ass off to live in that situation, etc etc.</p>
<p>I’m just saying that not “applying” oneself to do some of these things is far from the wrong decision from many, and that these expectations are unfair, unwarranted, and unrealistic.</p>
<p>You make some very good points, modestmelody. College is a time for finding your own path. If you succeed in that, and meet your own expectations, good for you! That’s good enough for me.</p>
<p>This is from another perspective. My brother and sister went to Cornell and Dartmouth many years ago. Both of them graduated with very high GPAs (it’s an Asian thing). Both of them gave an exact same advise to my daughter - try to socialize and network more, it will serve you better latter in life than getting straight As. My brother especially wished he had spent more time to get to know his Cornell classmates better. He said that once you are out of school no one will ask about your GPA, but they will remember a party or EC you did together. Of course, to get the first job it’s important to get a decent grade in your major. My brother is an expat in HKG. When he meets a Cornellian, there is always an immediate bond. I think if your son is doing enough to meet his scholarship requirement, it should be fine. There is a lot more to college than just academic.</p>
<p>FWIW-- if my posts seem delirious and rant-y it’s because I haven’t gone to sleep from yesterday so I’ve slept about 6hrs in the last 48. I was out of my apartment from 830am-5pm in class/meetings an I’m about to head out again…</p>
<p>I agree with oldfort. I think we forget that these are only 18-22 year old kids. They don’t have the same life experiences that we do and it is hard for them to recognize what things are important. That being said, I think the OP said be pleased that her son is doing reasonably well in school and still having fun. It is all about finding a balance. I worry about my own S who is a sophomore. He has very, very high standards for himself in everything he does. He is so worried about trying to be perfect that he doesn’t have time to have fun. I’m afraid he’s going to wake up some day after graduation and realize that he’s missed out. College is the last time in your life when you’re around people your own age and don’t have the responsibilities of an adult. You need to enjoy that too.</p>
<p>Nobody - me or the school - expects him to do things he is not interested in. He is being given the opportunity to explore. I guess I am also afraid that one day he will look back and wish he’d taken more advantage of the things he was given. But I guess that’s part of life, and that’s his life, not mine. That won’t keep me from silently wishing he could see what he is wasting. As adults, we all know what a rare respite college is from the working life.</p>
<p>Inthebiz, I’m sorry to hear you have such disappointing results with your merit scholarship students. I think you are right to feel that the funds are being misused. I say that as the parent of a student attending a top private university on a very generous merit scholarship. In my opinion, son should be treating this award more as a responsibility than as a gift, and it is not asking too much of him to be a leader both in and out of class. Anything less means he is ripping off the generous donor who is funding the merit award program.</p>
<p>I’m wondering if you need to make a careful review of your selection method. My son’s record is that of a talented, hard-working, involved and enthusiastic student and member of the school community. I don’t think his university has made a mistake. I will admit, though, that his dad and I both gave him a mini-lecture before he left for school about living up to the promise that led to this award.</p>
<p>modestmelody, my son’s annual merit award amounts to more than the annual salary of many hard-working people. I think he can find ways to simultaneously serve the interests of his university and make good friends, engage in self-discovery and self-improvement, and have a great all-round experience. I don’t see them as mutually exclusive at all. (Oops, just saw that same phrase in Inthebiz’s post.)</p>
<p>I was aware that there would be responses from parents whose students got a great scholarship and were taking full advantage thereof, thank-you-very-much.
But that is not the point. I am sure there is an abundance of those out there. However, despite the “mini-lectures”, there are some who choose not to follow that path that we so carefully laid out for them. </p>
<p>I don’t feel necessarily that the university made a mistake. I think that they recognized an asset to the intellectual atmosphere of their school. But I did wonder how they felt and have received some good insight into that. I have also received some perspective into how my S must be feeling. I know that he will not conceive of a project to be funded without some sort of passion and that is just being honest. I also know that he feels pressure to do so.</p>
<p>If a university is using scholarships as incentive to do well while in college, they’re sadly mistaken as to why they need to offer merit scholarship.</p>
<p>Schools offering merit scholarship really are doing so to maintain competitive with more prestigious schools and to buy whom they think are the best students. Being the best student though does not mean they’re getting straight As and are going to go to Stanford Law and become Chief Justice.</p>
<p>preironic, I did not mean to be critical of your child. I certainly apologize that it came out that way. Since my son just arrived on his campus, I have no idea whether or not he will live up to what I think he should do. What I meant to convey with the note about the mini-lecture was the fact that I’m nervous that he might not live up to what I think are his responsibilities! </p>
<p>My response was meant for Inthebiz, not for parents pondering whether or not their children are making the most of their opportunities. You and your son have my best wishes. Again, sorry the tone came out all wrong.</p>
<p>modestmelody, I’m not sure what your point is. Part of being a good student, from the point of view of a university, is doing well in the classes, part is getting involved in research, part is participating in university initiatives within the larger community, and part is being able to report back after graduation that one has become a success in some fashion or other. Often this does indeed mean studying at a top graduate or professional program, and certainly becoming Chief Justice would be considered a feather in a university’s cap.</p>
<p>He’s only turning 20. Third year is still a growing year for the average male university student. If he gets to senior year without having sunk his teeth into any larger intellectual matter, then you can wring your hands.</p>
<p>This is the start of third year. He’s just finished up those (dull) core courses.</p>
<p>Midmo - no offense taken. I didn’t know that your S was just beginning. In 2 years you will probably be able to write the same thing, but if not, take Cheers’ advice and chill.</p>
<p>Cheers, I think my S is grabbing hold intellectually and I know from my experience that there is night and day between sophomore and junior attitudes. So although his grades won’t get him into a great grad program, he has finally been able to stretch his intellect. And his social life has been a tremendous learning experience. </p>
<p>What has been a little hard to chill about are all those great visiting lecturers missed, the offers of special projects to be funded, the groups and clubs to be joined, etc. And as his college path comes to the halfway mark, I can’t help but think how most people never have these opportunities and how the working world will rein him in so quickly. </p>
<p>I never convey these thoughts to him, but I have them and I appreciate the sharing of experiences and advice.</p>
<p>I have reread the post and I want to thank everyone for such great perspectives - especially ebeeeee, modestmelody, chedva, and marian.</p>
<p>NorthstarMom - getting the scholarship students together is a great idea. I think for a long time my son felt isolated as most of the top scholarship students did not know who each other were and most were embarrassed to tell their new-found friends for fear of alienating them or being seen as arrogant.</p>
<p>For my major scholarship (thank you very much!), each year students resubmit an application with GPA, major, honors courses taken (a minnimium of 7 are required), a resume, a letter of rec. from a professor, an essay, and a resume of award, activities, and honors. I think they tend to renew fairly easily with satisfactoryacademic progress is being made, butit does provide a good way to “check up” on the students they’re funding so kindly. I must say, it’s very stressful for applicants, though!</p>
<p>pre-ironic,
What field is your son in? What range is his GPA, if you feel comfortable posting?</p>
<p>My D has an alumni merit scholarship and must reapply every year presenting both a GPA (not a publisehd minimum per se, but a factor in the overall picture) as well as academic and/or EC achievements.</p>
<p>Wow. This would seem to me to be attainable by only the most mature or driven undergrads, especially as a first- or second-year student. (possibly not even attainable by males younger than 21. :)</p>
<p>I’m usually the first one to say “live up to your responsibilities,” and I do know what everyone means when they think of all the opportunities some of our kids are passing up in college. I’ve stopped going to S’s university website, because it a) makes me jealous that I can’t go see the visiting lecturers or performers, and b) discouraged because he chooses not to avail himself of the opportunity. </p>
<p>But…</p>
<p>Remember that the vast majority of high-achieving high school students who earn big college merit scholarships were able to earn them because they had the support of parents. Parents, who ensured they were fed, rested, organized and otherwise supported while the kids crammed their days and nights with all of their interests. Remember what a full time job it was to do that for our kids? (I still have a D at home who is not even a high achiever and I’m exhausted helping her keep track of her responsibilities, holding her accountable, reminding her to do things, not to mention organizing meals for her, attending her events and otherwise supporting her). At college, a lot of energy and time must go into learning when to eat, sleep, socialize, study, go to class, take care of health, compromise with roommates, etc… Mistakes are made. Some mistakes snowball over time. Opportunities to let loose are granted; these take a toll, too. It’s exhausting, especially the first two years. </p>
<p>I agree there might be some entitlement attitudes going on, but consider the possibility that these kids are trying to survive their newfound independence, to find their footing. Possibly they have awoken to the fact that some of the college experience is about finding yourself, pleasing yourself, discovering yourself and being beholden to nobody (or at least feeling that way, we all know that is a farce – though we learned that later on). This process might occur well off the beaten path of university initiatives and committee expectations, tied to generous merit aid or not. </p>
<p>We don’t want merit scholarship winners to become indentured servants, right?</p>
<p>On a personal note:</p>
<p>While not a big-scholarship winner, my NMS, high-achieving son tried to ramp up his first-year activities beyond even what he did in high school. The wheels came off the train in his second year as he came to grips with the fact that even 19-year-olds need to sleep, eat and study regularly. He’d overcommitted to too many ECs, promised too many things to people, partied too much, studied too little and just generally lost his balance – tipping the boat over, as Cheers would say – in an ugly and scary way (for him and us). We picked up the pieces, brought him home for a semester, got him counseling, nursed his health, and now he is back at university for his 3rd year. He’s doing well so far, balancing classes, a job and a new EC interest. We don’t ask about his grades. We don’t ask about grad school. These are his to own – as long as he is passing his courses and with the understanding he gets four years on our bill and that’s it. </p>
<p>My attitude about his performance in college has changed dramatically over the past two years and I’ve had to let go of whether or not he is “maximizing” opportunities or his own potential. In my mind, he is not. But he is making progress in growing up and is making some decisions that are healthy for him. I’m looking forward to the day when someone unrelated to me says “He’s all grown up. You did a good job.” Part of that job has been letting go of my expectations for his performance, giving him the room to screw up royally and holding my tongue as he went about reconstructing a meaningful life (a work in progress, to be sure). It has been more difficult in some ways than the sum of the parenting I did in the first 18 years.</p>
<p>Mom of 2 Incas (Sorry, I just <em>had</em> to do that!),</p>
<p>There is a lot of wisdom in what you wrote. I just wanted to elaborate on the highlighted portion of your post to point out that I don’t mean first-semester freshman should be jumping into everything possible as soon as they land on campus. I realize it takes time to get adjusted, get one’s footing, and get a realistic idea of one’s limits.</p>
<p>Speaking as a former college instructor and researcher, and spouse to a long-time professor who has mentored many students, it is not unrealistic to expect top students to perform decently in class, do some research, and get involved in non-academic activities by the time they are juniors (assuming they are not working a lot of hours at a paying job). The post you highlighted was actually a response to a student poster who seemed to be saying that students could be “good” students even if they didn’t care much about their studies or participating in academic activities. I don’t agree with that, sorry. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Obviously, I don’t think any student, scholarship or no, should be pressured to the point of breakdown or dysfunction. Geez, I am a mom.</p>
<p>Momof2inca - you have expressed yourself well. I think it is impossible for us to put ourselves into our student’s shoes from such a distance both geographically and age-wise. You have helped. </p>
<p>I thought that I “knew” that my son had plenty of time for other things, especially since he does not work during the school year and could probably be making a little better grades. But now I am understanding that there are a lot of other factors. He has moved into an apartment for the first time and there has been some social drama to deal with also. </p>
<p>My S’s guidance counselor once said that when you tell your children that they are capable of doing anything, it is exciting to a 10 year old but can be a burden to anyone over 16.</p>
<p>Wolfpiper - He is an English major and and does not shy away from a challenge or a chance to explore academically. The only requirements for his scholarship to renew are a 3.0 GPA and help selecting succeeding candidates. They like to keep a modest GPA requirement for their scholarship kids to encourage them to take chances, which I think is great.</p>