Lying about club position

Applying to College
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<p>
[quote]
I was wondering, for leadership positions, could you pretty much get away with saying you are president or vice president of diversity clubs such as Black Student Coalition or something like Yoga Club. Its not as risky as saying you are captain of the math team or lead editor of the newspaper

[/quote]

... If you weren't in the bsc, then that's pretty stupid to try and get away with "president of bsc" There really is no point in lying. Now, stretching the truth is a little different. ;D</p>

<p>But seriously, if the school you're applying too is a reach, lying about your leadership positions probably will not help. And if the school is a match, there is no need to lie and risk getting in trouble. You will probably get in. There's nothing wrong with fixing up your essay, too which can be a major deciding factor.</p>

<p>T_college, that's really elaborate. Especially if you didn't actually DO anything in the club. Such bragging on a lie isn't the wisest move.</p>

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<p>how do high schools verify things such as Sci Olympiad medals, or math "first team"? Couldnt you easily get by with a few added years of participation?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
how do high schools verify things such as Sci Olympiad medals, or math "first team"? Couldnt you easily get by with a few added years of participation?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now, if only you could use those powers for good. </p>

<p>It amazes me that if a candidate would put a thumbnail of the effort they use to find a way to circumvent the process into actually putting their application together, well you know the rest.</p>

<p>What is that saying...
You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Is something that you feel is so important to lie about now really worth risking your future for? IF something sounds to good to be true it usually is. If you have done what you siad you have done for all of these years you are going to be proud of it and will want to get collaboration from number of sources and there would be some consistencies in your application. You sign your application stating that the information on it is true. Not too many people are going to stand by you and risk their credibility because you want to be wrong and strong.</p>

<p>I will leave you with Dartmouth's policy since that is the one which I am most familar. Other selective schools operate on pretty much the same premise.</p>

<p>*Misrepresentation in Admissions Material *</p>

<p>If a candidate for admission to Dartmouth makes a false statement or submits falsified material in connection with his or her application, and the misrepresentation is discovered after the candidate has been admitted, the offer of admission ordinarily will be withdrawn. If the misrepresentation is discovered after a student has matriculated, the offer of admission normally will be rescinded and the student will be required to leave Dartmouth. If the discovery occurs after a degree has been awarded, the degree normally will be rescinded.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Edeancoll/documents/handbook/rules-regs/adm-misrep.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~deancoll/documents/handbook/rules-regs/adm-misrep.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Regarding the SO medals - there will likely be other kids applying to the same colleges form your SO region. A few too many firsts in, say, experimental design would start to stand out.</p>

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<p>"ow do high schools verify things such as Sci Olympiad medals, or math "first team"? Couldnt you easily get by with a few added years of participation?"</p>

<p>For most colleges, those kind of awards are not going to make the difference between admission or rejection. The ECs that do make a difference are major ECs: being national president of an organization, participating in RSI or some other major program. </p>

<p>Virtually no college is going to be impressed by an extra membership, a few extra years in an EC, being a yoga club president (even if you lie about what you did) or some relatively minor award such as those you are mentioning. </p>

<p>For the extremely competitive colleges for which ECs can make a difference, it's major ECs -- such as being national president of an organization, playing solo concerts at Carnegie Hall, being an Olympic athlete -- that make a difference. Lie about things like that and you're likely to get caught.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, if you lie about absolutely anything and happen to get caught, then you're either going to be reject or many schools will rescind your acceptance or even rescind your degree. No matter how slick you are, you can get caught in lies.</p>

<p>I've caught students in lies when I have interviewed them for my alma mater, and such students did not get in. This included a student who lied about reading a book that I happened to be very familiar with, and it included a student who greatly exaggerated their participation in a club that I was very familiar with because my son (who went to a different school than did the student) was an officer.</p>

<p>I also heard about a student who lied about a club office and after their interview ran into the student from their school who actually did hold the office. The lying student was with the adcom when they ran into the student, and the subject happened to come up. So much for that potential acceptance....</p>

<p>It simply isn't worth it. Even if you didn't get caught, if you have any conscience, you'd always wonder if you were as deserving a student as are those students who didn't lie about their accomplishments. You'd also wonder if you'd get caught.</p>

<p>It would be much smarter to simply tell the truth on your application while taking the time to edit and revise so that you highlight your real accomplishments.</p>

46

<p>Seriously, just don't lie. Even if you do not get caught, you'd end up with a crappy conscience and might think for the rest of your life: "What if I didn't lie? Will I still have gotten in?"</p>

<p>Not to mention, if you're willing to risk so much to lie, why not just join the club in the first place?</p>

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<p>NSM -
"For most colleges, those kind of awards are not going to make the difference between admission or rejection. The ECs that do make a difference are major ECs: being national president of an organization, participating in RSI or some other major program. "</p>

<p>I beg to differ. In my son's case, at least, I am sure that his SO regional/state/national awards did matter, for merit aid as well as admissions. Not an admissions ticket, but certainly part of the package. </p>

<p>The admissions officers that we spoke with were pretty well aware of what was going on with the various sorts of competitions, and which schools were competitive. I would expect that a 'fishy' list of EC's would be looked into - with a call to the GC if nothing else.</p>

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<p>Some schools post online all kinds of club memberships and school activities. An interviewer could smoke you out by googling.</p>

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<p>"I beg to differ. In my son's case, at least, I am sure that his SO regional/state/national awards did matter, for merit aid as well as admissions. Not an admissions ticket, but certainly part of the package. "</p>

<p>We are in agreement. What I'm saying is that being president of a h.s. yoga club or a member of NHS is not likely to gain a student merit money (though there are some second tier and lower colleges that do give small scholarships for NHS membership) or admissions from highly competitive colleges. </p>

<p>What impresses colleges -- particularly highly competitive places like HPYS, which are flooded with applicants who are class presidents, are positions and awards that are major. I would categorize being a state or regional officer of an organization as being "major" depending on what the organization is.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, there are some national awards that mean less than many students think they mean. If one lives in an area in which many schools compete in, for instance, Mu Alpha Theta, most of the HPYS applicants from that area will probably be national or regional award winners for that club. Those awards won't make them stand out in the application pools for the highly select colleges. The awards, though, might be impressive for lesser ranked schools.</p>

<p>BTW, I mentioned "yoga club" because on another thread, I saw a student who was planning to create such a club and become president in order to look good to colleges. I've seen students who did things like that. Such bogus clubs stick out like sore thumbs, particularly when one asks the students what they accomplished in their leadership role, and they simply stare blankly or say something that's so trivial that it's clear that the club had no substance.</p>

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<p>Almost ALL must ecs are outside of school. For instance, i was heavilly involved in the World Peace Treaty Campaign, and the Chairman of this organization knows me well for my serious efforts. Can I send in an extra rec letter from him for verification? Thanks. (btw I changed schools so my new school has no knowledge of my ecs)</p>

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<p>Some colleges accept extra recommendation letters, some don't. Check with adcoms at colleges you're considering. If the colleges will accept such a letter, it sounds like the perfect example of the kind of extra recommendation that would enhance an application. </p>

<p>The extra recc wouldn't be for verification, but for the person to describe a perspective about you and your interests/character that it is unlikely that your teachers or GC could describe from first-hand experience.</p>

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<p>If you are lucky, one of your teachers will also be your club advisor - my son had two teacher rec's like that - one for robotics (comp sci teacher), another for drama (AP english teacher). The GC mentioned his participation and leadership in SO - he followed up on the application with a detailed listing of the medals. All of this information, taken together, provides a pretty good picture of prospect, that was consistant with the interviews and essays and such. </p>

<p>IMO, it is better to take what you legitamately have and present it well and honestly. You will do a better job on the presentation if its true - whether you are trying to stay in the hunt at the elites, or garner some merit aid at a second tier LAC. I'll bet Brownie wishes he hadn't padded his resume about now.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1103003,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1103003,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>FEMA Brown</p>

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<p>Let me put it this way:</p>

<p>If you lie, for your entire career you run the risk of being caught and exposed. </p>

<p>You may think it's forgotten, but the fear will always linger in the back of your mind.</p>

<p>If even one person finds out you lied and reports even a suspicion to the college, it will probably sink any chance you have of admission</p>

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<p>I don't think clubs mean anything anyway. People usually aren't passionate about being part of a club, but if it's their hobby that they absolutely can't live without, it matters a whole lot more. Besides, it's usually the same clubs every year. Chess/math/student council/etc., very original! Clubs are there just to fill out your brag list.</p>

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<p>One of my friends was at an interview where the interviewer mentioned he had just interviewed the captain of his track team. My friend asked who?, then when he heard the name, said nothing further. Later on it was determined that the faux track team captain had also cheated on his SATs and had his elite school admittance rescinded.</p>

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<p>What I've gathered from these responses is that you can exaggerate a bit on your extracurriculars to make it sound better, but stay away from outright lies. If your EC's doesn't vary greatly from those of other people, colleges are unlikely to check (especially something like vice-presidency or president vs co-president).</p>

<p>By the way, I don't think beying a treasurer or historian counts for much</p>

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<p>Lying in general gets on my nerves. For his ECs, one of my friends listed that he had 40+ hours of community service for shoveling snow at a local food shelter. In reality, they paid him to shovel the damn snow. I've mentioned it to him that its considered lying but he really doesn't care. What people will do to get into college.</p>

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<p>A kid from my school lied about a part time job on his app. It was just a filler because his stats and EC's were great. Somehow the guy they said he worked for found out and called the U. The school had an honor code and the kid lost his scholarship. SO not worth it just to look a little bit better on an app.</p>

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<p>what about putting things you haven't done yet but are definitely going to do? for example, last year i went w/ my church on a habitat for humanity service trip that totaled about 40 hours (of actual service, even though it was a weeklong thing in NC). this year i already know i'm going to go on the service trip again (i think its going to be in the dominican republic). Can i put that on my application? Is there anywhere or any way to say "already signed up to spend my senior spring break doing community service w/ my church?" </p>

<p>also, about awards.. my junior year honors english class did an awards thing, just within the class, pretty much everyone got one (different ones) so they werent like "A Huge Deal" or anything, but one of the ones i got was "most likely to be an english teacher", which is not necessarily an extraordinary honor but just something kind of quirky that sort of says something about me as a person... can i include something like this? should i just say english teacher award?</p>