<p>Anyone else coming tomorrow? I’m doing piano, and I’m nervous becuse some people are telling me so many different things about it. Some people (who go there and have auditioned) tell me that the program is not selective at all and that 99% of people who audition get in and others are telling me it is rather competitive. Anyone have any ideas?</p>
<p>There’s a prior thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/663338-manhattan-school-music-precollege.html?highlight=manhattan[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/663338-manhattan-school-music-precollege.html?highlight=manhattan</a> and an additional link within.</p>
<p>It is a strong, competitive program.</p>
<p>Yeah, the thing is, everyone at my school says that it’s pretty much a joke.</p>
<p>You asked for information, and I linked you to two pertinent threads. In the event that you were unaware, a good number of those posters responding that have had experiences with MSM precollege have or are students now in conservatory, conservatory level programs. </p>
<p>From what I recall, most considered it an integral part of their music experience and training. </p>
<p>It appears that there is a differing consensus between the majority of posters that responded and the “well informed” at your school. You might be wise to seek a third set of opinions.</p>
<p>Smarts-</p>
<p>I suspect one of several things about the kids who claimed to ‘know’ MSM at your school, they either didn’t go to it and heard from kids they knew who went to Juilliard pre college about how ‘easy’ MSM was, or they themselves go to Julliard pre college (both based in the idea of establishing the ‘cred’ that MSM ‘wasn’t as good’ as Julliard. That is a big thing around Juilliard pre college I hear, a lot of the kids went to Julliard pre college because in their minds it is ‘number 1’, ‘the only place’ and so forth, and do everything they can to pump up its prestige…meanwhile the kids who do that are generally as musical as a brick, but I diverge…), or they may simply be saying that to try and denigrate the fact that you are talented enough to even apply there in the first place (could also be the dim possibility that they are telling you that so you won’t be freaked out, there are still nice kids out there:).</p>
<p>Here is my take on MSM, based on talking to kids who are actually there and from talking to ‘pros’ around and about. MSM is a competitive program, it takes highly developed musical skills generally to get in there and based on the kids I have seen/met in the program, that jibes. One thing I suspect about MSM (hard to prove this) is that sometimes they will take a young musician who may be a bit less polished technically but shows a lot of musicality and love for the music , which gets translated by certain people as being ‘less competitive’ (personally, give me the kid who loves the music but isn’t as sharp technically, you can teach technique, you can’t teach love of music, presence or musicality to a technically impressive robot musician). I think that if it is easier to get into MSM then Juilliard, it isn’t because of the program, it is because Juilliard pre college program has an international reputation as being ‘the best’ , so you have a lot more kids trying to get into Juilliard, which may make it easier to get into MSM (and there I am speculating, folks, simply based on what I hear around and about). Kind of like trying to go to Harvard versus going to let’s say a really good program at a state school. The program at the state school may be first rate,maybe even equal or better then Harvard’s, but because of the name Harvard draws the most applicants and thus is more highly selective since their pool is so huge…</p>
<p>From insiders,even people who love MSM and swear by it, the one criticism is that the facilities are not necessarily as good as Juilliards (especially now that they are redoing Juilliard’s space).</p>
<p>I think you are going to find that it won’t be easy and that if you go there you will find a pretty high level…</p>
<p>I wish you luck, knock 'em dead:)</p>
<p>good luck with your audish!
it’s definitely true that a lot of people at juilliard prep think that it’s better than msm prep, and maybe it is in some ways, but maybe it isn’t… the only people who could make that comparison would be people who have been in both programs. i know someone who was and she did tell me that juilliard was tougher academically, but msm is no joke. it’s a great program.</p>
<p>I can’t give any “facts” about the comparison between Juilliard and MSM. I heard from my D numerous times on this subject. She liked the kids and the culture at MSM and thought the Juilliard kids were unjustifiably stuck up and made having fun with music into some sort of stressful experience. Again, I have no facts to back up these impressions, but there did seem to be a substantial difference in the school cultures.</p>
<p>Edad-
I Can’t talk that much about the MSM culture, but what you wrote about Juilliard is what I have heard from a wide range of people, from parents with kids there, teachers who teach there and from musicians with ties to the place. Basically, it is hypercompetitive, and in certain programs (strings and piano come to mind) it borders on almost being a war zone in a sense, it is that competitive and non collegial. A lot of the kids in the string program see themselves as being the next hotshot soloist and they think that going to Juilliard, the ‘top’ program, is going to automatically make them a superstar, which is kind of ironic because the person most responsible for that reputation (at least in strings world) was Dorothy Delay, and her philosophy was the exact opposite of that (I also suspect you won’t see the next great soloist coming out of Juilliard PC anytime soon, I think the nature of the program works against that, for a number of reasons). Some kids do have fun in the JPC, of course, and it isn’t uniformly crazy like that, but in a large swath of it is seems more like a hyper competitive prep school then ‘fun’.</p>
<p>WHOA - Maybe it’s because I don’t play a ‘solo’ instrument, but I did not find Juilliard Prep to be that hypercompetitive and insane. There were definitely some aspects of Juilliard that I didn’t like, but most aspects I really did like.</p>
<p>Cosmos-
That could very well be. For example, I suspect the music composition program isn’t like that, or more then a few other areas, it was why I was careful to quantify it.I can tell you it is like that in the strings world and piano, and most especially on the violin and it probably is because those are the predominate soloists instruments out there (yes, winds and brasses and percussion solo, of course). I would write some of this off as jealousy of people who didn’t get in, but I am getting this from people who teach there as well people who went there and still have close ties and some kids who go there as well. I also know kids who have gone there in other areas, like on brass instruments, woodwinds, percussion and some others, and they told me that it wasn’t the same in their area, and I can believe that. There is a very weird culture around the violin, cello and piano that drives this, it is a combination of seeing these instruments as ‘prestige’ instruments, of kids that are being trained from a very young age to get into programs like JCP and the like, and of course of seeing JCP as a ticket either to a high level music career or as a nice hashmark when applying to top level colleges…</p>
<p>And as always, it is also a matter of perspective, mine is pretty much all second hand, not first hand. I also want to note that the original poster was on the piano, one of the programs that at Juilliard PC is reputed to be very intensely competitive and cutthroat, so my thought that he was being told by people who think Juilliard is #1 that MSM was “easy” fits the pattern.</p>
<p>When my son started at MSM precollege all the parents gossiped to me about the warm and fuzzy feeling at MSM as compared to Julliard. I did not experience Julliard for myself, but I know one girl left MSM because she was “serious” and thought Julliard would better prepare her for stardom. Yes, that’s right! I think, though, that this is another place where coming from a jazz department makes the difference in impressions. Jazz just doesn’t seem to be competitive in the same way. Even still, MSM has its own pretensions–even in the jazz department! But, it’s such a great place for a young musician to start to get serious and play with other serious peers.</p>
<p>Jazzz-</p>
<p>Yep, that is the mystique, that somehow if you get into Juilliard Pre C you are on your way to stardom, etc…they believe the name alone guarantees that. In the violin world, to a large extent it is because the list of notable soloists who have come out of there (From Perlman and Zukerman, to Midori, Sarah Chang, Nigel Kennedy, James Ehnes, kyung wha chung, Nadia Salerno Sonnenberg, et al). What they don’t realize is that most of them were the result of one person, not necessarily the program (All of the ones above, except Ehnes, came from Delay, who died in 2001 or 2002). Whether that was Delay herself (which I think did play a big role) or simply that so many kids wanted to be her student that the odds favored having some successes as some say, it was a unique situation, but that is what a lot believe (of the kids going to Julliard pre C, at least 50% never intend to study music or don’t go into it…and the rest that do, only a small fraction end up making it at all, let allone the high level they crave). </p>
<p>And from what I have been told by people who have attended there, the school doesn’t exactly dissuade people from believing that,for obvious reasons (if you can have a mystique, like Harvard or Yale, etc, that puts at your doorstep a lot of kids wanting to get in, who would fight that?). Doesn’t mean Juilliard isn’t a high level program, it is, or that kids don’t benefit from it, they do, I am just saying that nothing lives up to that hype, and in a sense I personally believe that that hype is hurting them, I suspect more then a few of their faculty feels that (I know a couple directly who feel that, but also know that the head of the program and most of the faculty still think it is a good thing).</p>
<p>Oh and has anyone heard for a call back yet? Apparently, last year, they emailed call backs in one week.</p>
<p>i dunno…son is a vp…but he was accepted with lots of $. it could be the tenor thing??? who knows!! lol…if we knew the formula…there wouldn’t be any forums!!</p>
<p>My daughter auditioned for MSM precollege in voice. She is a soprano. She gave a fantastic audition and although she received a very favorable email a couple of days later from one of the faculty members there whom she had met prior to the audition, she has not received a callback. So, I guess MSM precollege is very competative despite what the Julliard fans may have to say. To be honest, the faculty member she wanted to study with said she was a “stand-out” among very talented vocalists they heard on the 16th, so we were really surprised that she didn’t get called back. </p>
<p>Best of luck to those who did!</p>
<p>The words “she is a soprano” probably explains it.</p>
<p>Actually, she just received an email inviting her to callbacks. So, we’re very excited here. Despite her soprano status, we still have hope. :)</p>
<p>njmom-</p>
<p>Have you received a definite reject yet? Unless vocal is very different, could it be that maybe your daughter got in but they are still deciding other slots? Or are callbacks automatic? In the instrumental side of things (least based on our experience with our son and Juilliards pre c program) it takes a while to hear back yes or no, so perhaps not hearing is not necessarily a sign of rejection. I would recommend e-mailing the faculty member and asking him/her if they know anything about her status. Take it from me, the offices at those places are trying to herd cats, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out okay.</p>
<p>Plus,one other suggestion, you may want to talk to the teacher who gave her the e-mail, about possibly studying privately with him. One of the things I have learned about programs like this is that it can be very difficult to get in unless you are studying with a teacher in the program. I know for certain with certain instrumental programs that admittance is not based only upon how well the person does on the audition, but also on whether there is a teacher willing to take them as a student and that has an opening for a new student. By having a teacher in the program, that takes the willingness out of the equation, and secondly, teachers in the program know the kind of things that the panelists will be looking for, the kinds of technical and/or stylistic things they rate highly.</p>
<p>FYI- I heard from a teacher at Juilliard pre-college this week that there were significantly less kids auditioning there this year than in previous years. don’t know if that was his perception or reality.</p>
<p>Team mom-</p>
<p>What I have heard that I am pretty certain of is that the Juiilliard pre college program had a lot of kids graduating (I have heard around 90 kids)…not sure of the ratios, but this is a fairly large number. I have also heard rumblings that there were less kids trying out, that because of the bad economy a lot of people are figuring they can’t afford the 9k+ tuition (and given that Julliard’s overall endowment took a major hit, as did many place’s endowments, even kids who would normally receive aid (from what I understand, not all that many and not all that much in the pre college), it wouldn’t suprise me. </p>
<p>Not sure how that all plays out, but what you are saying gybes with what I know and have heard rumors about.</p>