<p>Agh, still going through stuff. My question is: I'm still getting the freaked out middle of the night (2 a.m.) phone calls, almost every night. (Two nights without them is the record.) I've encouraged her to use school resources, and even set some of them up for her, and she refuses, with some disdain. Yet I get the freaked out calls and end up awake most of the night with anxiety. Maybe these are "venting" calls, and she often is better the next day (during the day), but she sounds pretty bad in some of them, thus my urging help and setting up help. But she gets angry when I do, and refuses. One example: She's had an infection for days, saw the doctor once, and needs to go again today. They don't know what's wrong with her, and we need to find out. She says she can't go today. She says she can't go tomorrow. Can MAYBE go Monday. I had to tell her that either she goes today or I fly down there and make her go. That's the degree of resistance, and that's just a physical example, emotional even worse. But then I get the night phone calls. Should I not take the calls? Should I put a cap on how late she can call me? I've talked with the school and they will call her in, but if she doesn't ask for help, they can't make her take it. The bind is, I am trying to help her get through this, but on the other hand I may just be enabling her. I feel really angry about it at this point, and feel guilty about feeling angry. She'll transfer out at the end of the semester, but the problem is getting her through until then without her totally losing it. She feels that way too. I'm okay with her leaving now, but she doesn't want to do that, either. Suggestions/support welcome.</p>
<p>I'm so sorry to hear that you and your daughter are going through this. You must be physically and emotionally exhausted. </p>
<p>My inclincation would be to speak to her during the daytime and calmly express your concern and acknowledge her distress; reiterate your love and your desire to lend support; and explain that the nighttime calls are so disruptive that they are making it difficult for you to sleep -- or to be effective during the day. I would point out to your D that the nighttime calls are disruptive for her as well, and emphasize the need to establish regular sleep routines that will make it easier for her to cope with her academic and personal lives. I would ask her to help you decide upon "no call" hours that, barring an emergency, she will agree to respect, for both your sakes. And I'd present this negotiation as one small mechanism to help her get through this semester, and suggest that other incremental steps/strategies can help her get control of her situation. Of course, this is easy for me to say, and may not be a helpful approach.</p>
<p>Hi Heron. I think I've told you my story (fka kpalmal on these boards). When my D was having similar issues (eventually resulting in mild bipolar II diagnosis), we went through every approach (calmness, reasoning, anger, limits, threats). To this day she harbors resentment that we were not supportive of her when she needed it. Talk about guilt trip. Still not sure what she wanted us to do or what we could have done. Hence, I have a difficult time answering your specific questions - although I think your anxiety might increase exponentially if you told her NOT to call in the night . . . At least she is still reaching out and in some way it is making her feel better! Seems she isn't sleeping very well herself? Is she studying/working at getting decent grades to facilitate later transfer? (My D did not.....)</p>
<p>Also glad the school is at least willing to "call her in." Hopefully she will "click" with the person they have talk with her and she will feel less afraid of seeking help through the school - and it does sound likes she's fearful of taking that step.</p>
<p>It sounds like this long-distance situation for you is definitely time-limited (till end of the semester). What is she doing at T'giving? Is there a parent's weekend coming up soon? Will she move home when she transfers? Each of these things may give you a better assessment of her state. </p>
<p>When she calls, maybe instead of "urging help" try to get her to come to that conclusion herself (e.g., the ol' therapist's trick: "You sound very upset. I am here to listen but it is hard for me to do something from a distance. What ways can you think of to resolve the situation? Why don't you pick one and see how it works and let me know"</p>
<p>The anger and guilt come from our lack of control over the situation I think. Wish I could say it ends...... but in our case it lessened with better understanding of the underlying problem. Hang on!</p>
<p>Heron --
This college application, admission and entry experience has been so rough for you and your daughter..and it's clearly not getting better. </p>
<p>From the perspective of a non professional observer, it appears there is enabling behavior going on...even just telling her you're going to fly down. As when our children were younger, realistic limits and expectations need to be clearly stated and met. </p>
<p>It's so hard not to be enabling.....you want your daughter to be happy. I'm sure you worry that one of those 2am calls will be a really serious physical or emotional problem, and you'd never forgive yourself if you didn't answer the phone.</p>
<p>You've both expended so much time and energy that doesn't seem to be achieving a positive result. I know that you have suggested counseling for your daughter. I can't remember if anyone has suggested it for you, too. It might help you deal more easily with how you're feeling about her issues. And, it might help you deal more easily with her.</p>
<p>I don't know any of the back story here and I don't know what led up to the phone calls. But I think I would be on a plane, and I'd do it soon. Something doesn't seem right.</p>
<p>I agree with everything 2boys stated and believe individual counseling would help you both see things clearer. </p>
<p>Everything your D has done in the last year (not being able to come up with a list, not wanting to visit, choosing a school she said she knew she wouldn't like then immediately regretting her decision and trying to switch only to then decide to stay with her original choice, vascillating between going and not going right up until drop-off day, then immediately deciding to transfer) all with associated tears and drama, screams of a kid who is just not ready. It's no big deal, she's just not ready now. Life is not a race and wanting something is very different from being ready for the experience. This is not a case of the wrong school, it's a case of the wrong time. I think she would have had issues no matter which school she chose.</p>
<p>Together, hopefully with a good counselor, you can figure out if it is worth staying the semester, but there is no way I would allow her to transfer into another school for the spring. She needs time off to figure out who she is and what she wants. Starting fresh next fall may allow her the time to mature and gain the self confidence she needs to be successful. Good luck.</p>
<p>Thank you for some good ideas (and well-wishes).</p>
<p>I do think that I am enabling her to a certain extent. It's hard to know if my "being there" is making things better in the short run (during the call) but worse for her in the long run. If you pick the alcoholic up off the living room floor and put him to bed evey night, it deprives him of the chance to wake up on the floor one morning and say "Oh ****, I need help." So to speak.</p>
<p>The sleep thing is also an issue for her, as she gets worse as the week goes on and she is more and more sleep deprived. Her school is famous for overloading its students and the only way you can decrease your course load after the withdrawal deadline is to get a recommendation from the counseling center. (Which of course she won't do.) Because of the way their freshman year is set up, they are discouraged from withdrawing from any courses, which is why she didn't do try to do it in the first place. (Also pure obstinance.)</p>
<p>And though I've set up a therapist for her, I haven't done so for myself! Another sign of enabling.</p>
<p>I agree with you completely, my-3-sons, about the inadvisability of her starting at another school mid-year. She desperately needs the time, and I worry about her jumping from one frying pan into another (as someone on this board said). She's determined to do it. How would you put your foot down about that? My advice is not exactly going over well, these days. I did recommend it to her, and she did hear me and agree that it wasn't a bad idea, but her own desire to do it is strong (because her boyfriend is there). Not sure how to handle it.</p>
<p>I'm sorry your D is still having problems. I agree with a previous poster, she's just not ready (for whatever reason) and I'd be tempted to say "either you get into counseling NOW or you're coming home (ie. withdrawing from school) to deal with whatever is bothering you." </p>
<p>
[quote]
I agree with you completely, my-3-sons, about the inadvisability of her starting at another school mid-year. She desperately needs the time, and I worry about her jumping from one frying pan into another (as someone on this board said). She's determined to do it. How would you put your foot down about that? My advice is not exactly going over well, these days. I did recommend it to her, and she did hear me and agree that it wasn't a bad idea, but her own desire to do it is strong (because her boyfriend is there). Not sure how to handle it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To me, the answer is fairly simple. Assuming you hold the purse strings, you prevent her from transferring by refusing to pay her tuition etc. at the transfer institution until such time as she's dealt with her issues and is ready to go to school (wherever).</p>
<p>None of this is easy, but if she deals with whatever it is now, the better things will be for her in the future.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I have not followed your Ds situation but based on the summary in my-3-sons post, I agree your D is just not ready. You both are probably physically and emotionally exhausted. Would you consider going to the school, having her withdraw and bringing her home? You can get her professional help while she is living at home. She can get a job, &/or volunteer, &/or take an on-line course or two - anything to fill her time. I would not have her make plans for spring semester or next fall until after she has received professional help.</p>
<p>Thanks. She is seeing someone there, but not afiliated with the college. As to the transfer, I've been so focused on not rocking the emotional boat, I haven't even thought of cutting that option off totally. Definitely enabling: walking on eggshells.</p>
<p>It is too bad that she refuses to seek help locally. I bet you there are hot lines that she can call that can direct her what to do/ who to call/ or even just listen to her and make her feel better. My D. is a volunteer at such a hotline. They are 24 hours and people go thru very extensive training helping all sorts of people in desparate situations.
Switching into another school will make hr to go thru adjustment all over agian when most people around her will be somewhat settled. That might be even tougher.</p>
<p>ITB in post #8 expressed my perspective perfectly. </p>
<p>until she has dealt with her issues, she will not be happy or successful at any school. Being in the center of all this drama really just lets her camoflage the real problems and postpone doing the hard work of actually looking at her real problems and finding solutions to them.</p>
<p>You are there to support her and love her and listen to her and to help her reach out for the help she needs...and the schools will be there when she is ready for them</p>
<p>I would also frame the issue with her like this: She is obviously in a lot of pain, and these late-night phone calls to you (and everything else she is putting you through) are not making the situation better for her. Tell her she has convinced you that something is WRONG, and as the bill-payer, you will not cough up another set of deposits, more tuition, etc. until she has taken the steps necessary to assure you the underlying issues troubling her have been dealt with. And her whole-hearted participation in counseling at her current school is what it is going to take to assure you.</p>
<p>I have been following some of ups and down of Heron's daughter. I feel bad, but at the same time I can't help but get the sense that everything seems to be hard (or full of drama) for the daughter. The fact she would call at 2am every night does not portray a very mature young lady. Part of being an adult is to know the boundary, even between parent/child. They have no right to be calling parents or anyone in the middle of night unless it's a life or death situation. We are there to support them when necessary, but we also have our own things we need to deal with (like able to to get enough sleep so we could get to work on time).</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I think both of you probably need to go to counseloring. There is a lot of dependency between you and your daughter(or her sense of entitlement to dump on you). This didn't come about over night, and I think you have given her permission to do so. It seems like you are always worried about her emotional state - you tried to give her space to choose her school, you tried to make sure she's positive about the school she finally decided on(even right up to when she was going to school), and now you are trying to keep her stable so she could finish the semester.</p>
<p>Heron - I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think you are also wondering if you are being an enabler. I don't get the sense she is ready to be away from home, therefore I am not sure if transfering to another school would solve the problem. I would feel angry too if I were in your shoes.</p>
<p>I think this is one of those times when it is clear that our "adult" children are not really adults. They act like the children they still sometimes are, and we expect that to respond like the "adults" they almost are. When kids are having trouble, they want their mom. Often then don't really know why, and can't tell you what they want you to do because they don't really know. Like when you a kid and sick, and you just felt better if your mom was holding your hand. </p>
<p>Barring a medical issue, serious depression, or some other emergency, I think you are perfectly within your rights to tell her not to call you between midnight and 6 a.m. unless it's a life or death situation, and then she should call 911 first. You are there for her and want to help in any way you can that she will accept, but you can't function and will end up making yourself sick because of interrupted sleep/worry. Make sure she is aware of how upset you are by the nighttime calls.</p>
<p>Since she's going to transfer soon, help her find milestones to tick off until that time. 1) get through mid-terms, 2) make it to Halloween, 3) make it to Thanksgiving break, 4) make it through finals and then she's done, maybe with a visit thrown in. This very much reminds me of the advice on another thead when students need to call and vent to their parents about their troubles, and then forget about it, while parents proceed to worry and fret until the next call. The wait-24-hours advice seems really helpful. However, it is obvious your daughter's issues are more serious and need to be dealt with, but there's no reason you can't institute an 8-hour rule so you can get some sleep. </p>
<p>You might tell her that if she feels the need to talk to you in the middle of the night, she should compose an e-mail and you will check it first thing in the morning. Or she should text you, and you will call her back as soon as you wake up. You might suggest strategies for her to take her mind off issues that trouble her in the middle of the night--do a puzzle, take a hot shower, listen to soothing music, watch a video (tearjerker or comedy depending on her personality--would a good cry help or does she need to laugh?). </p>
<p>Good luck to you and to her.</p>
<p>Sometimes we do get caught up walking on eggshells, trying to to tip the boat, etc. It is tough when one is reacting to the fear of unstable emotions.</p>
<p>You are "saving" your DD from hitting the wall, from hitting bottom in this situation. Maybe she cannot make the adjustments she needs to make until she hits bottom.......can you contact the advisor in her major and find out about a complete withdrawal from all classes with approval of the department? </p>
<p>My DD had some issues in her senior year, I did not know what was going on, but I knew it was something. I was trying to support her, but she was really no longer in control and even with my support she ended up hitting bottom herself. I tried for several months to intervene and it still went to a mini-crisis.</p>
<p>In our case we learned she was being stalked and threatened. She did not want to tell us she was scared of this guy because she felt like an idiot for ever allowing him access to her life. She and I went together to her major dept, there was a really knowledgeable woman who had worked there for years, who knew all the rules, who has seen it all, and she advised us. </p>
<p>Neither DD nor I wanted to follow her advice, Withdraw from campus in the middle of senior year and deal with the stalker, then return to class without that distraction. We did not take that advice day one, we had to think about it. We eventually followed her advice, it was the right advice, she had a clearer perspective than we did. We were caught up in the "almost done" issue and could not see that the break would be better.</p>
<p>Find some one on your Ds campus who could allow her to W from campus with permission, not failing, and that same person can allow DD back in when she is ready.</p>
<p>You need to talk to that person about bringing this to a head. The adviser should be the one who has seen kids in all sorts of messes and should be able to discern the issues and help you decide how to do this.</p>
<p>Essentially you need your DD to stop calling and hit bottom without physical harm and without horribly nasty emotional harm- just enough emotional anguish to allow her to buy into a change.</p>
<p>Because you are caught up in it, it is difficult to be discerning, can you find some one like I suggested or if not that, perhaps a counselor who works with college kids? Maybe you could see the person your DD sees, that person cannot talk about your DD but would have a real understanding of the situation and may be able to advise you on the best path???</p>
<p>How much of the problem is due to wanting to be with her boyfriend? How is the boyfriend settling into college? Is he as attached to her and she is to him? Is it that she hates the school or is it that she's mad that she's away from her boyfriend? What do you mean when you say that the school is known to overwork their students? A typical freshman schedule is about 15 credits. If a science and/or foreign language is part of the schedule, the schedule may include a science lab and a language lab but that is very common. </p>
<p>You know your daughter best. Is she dramatic? Is she manipulative? Is she prone to exaggeration? Or, is she just so completely overwhelmed that she isn't ready to handle being away from home? How has she handled stressful situations in the past? </p>
<p>Try to encourage her to hang in there and complete the semester. I would think it would be difficult to get over the feeling of failure if she quit so soon after starting the semester. Keep encouraging her and try not to get sucked into any telephone "pity parties." Stay positive, help her set short term goals, and remind her not to sabotage her future because of a boy.</p>
<p>She can reach a hotline such as MiamiDAP described at 1-800-273-TALK.</p>
<p>Heron- another thought, if your DD is a drama queen and you have guided her growing up, you may be in the habit of trying to avoid drama.</p>
<p>My DD always seemed to have drama around her and a lot of that stems out of her personality and her choices that allow her to allow drama people in her life- like the guy who became a stalker. In my Ds case she is not Dx with an mental issues, but she has gone through a real epiphany of self-knowledge and learned that her joy has to come from her. Life since her mini-crisis has improved dramatically over life pre-crisis, in part because she is taking so much more responsibility for her decisions and endeavoring to stay away from drama forming situations.</p>
<p>I know I used to try to avoid DDs going to the drama, because it hurts to see them hurting and because too much drama is not healthy. I could clean up all the drama I wanted to, but only DD can avoid bringing drama home and she had to learn that the hard way, but I want to encourage you- my DD did learn that and it is good.</p>
<p>Sometimes kids need to learn by doing not by hearing or seeing, even the hard lessons, so don't fear her facing the consequences. Look at this as as chance to learn the lessons sooner rather than later and the opportunity to make good changes in her perspective for the future!</p>
<p>I can't add to the superb insight and advice already given. So I'm just wanting to say listen to this great advice. My very close friend is going through an amazingly similar experience except she's been going through this for years. Day schools, boarding schools and colleges --looking for the right one because her son had extreme issues everywhere he went. He also wanted to go to the college his girl friend attended and the transfer there resulted in the disaster that finally got them all in family therapy where they found their solution. In this case it was to take him out of school to address the underlying issues causing so much trauma for the entire family including younger children.</p>
<p>She consulted numerous psychologists and psychiatrists and it took several of each and 3 years before she got the advice that's been given here. It will all work out so focus on getting all of you the help you need to find your solution. My heart goes out to you.</p>