Middle of the night phone calls

<p>Those two am phone calls nearly every night suggest depression and sleep deprivation... and both of those individually can bring on the other one so the situation has to be dealt with asap. Sleep deprivation alone can lead to metabolic changes in the body that bring about serious, chronic diseases. Add in depression, and more stuff just keeps happening. The longer it continues, the less likely your daughter is to have a successful semester. I second counseling for you Heron because, no matter how much you disclose here, it takes a therapist to see someone in person to get a good picture of how they can help you. Once you feel comfortable with your own course of action, then you can make a decision for your daughter, who is not thinking clearly right now and sounds like she is unable to run her daily life. I've gotten those two am calls... you cannot be dealing with that all of the time- they will lead to emotional and physical exhaustion and threaten to impair your good health and judgment. When faced with tough situations, sometimes I ask myself, "What's the worst that can happen?" Once you face that down, usually the alternatives are acceptable. If you end up pulling her out of school and bringing her home, probably the worst that can happen is that she will be ticked off at you for awhile. If you leave her there and the situation worsens, she could become seriously depressed and suffer worse consequences. Talk to the school about a medical withdrawal. Once a student takes a MW, there are established guidelines on coming back at every university. I know more than a few kids who have taken a MW for physical ailments, depression, stress, you name it. Every one of them ended up going back within the year and continuing their education, usually at the same school and all with good results. One thing is for sure: something has to change as she has been unhappy for quite some time now. Good luck. Like they say on the airlines, "Put your own mask on first, so you can help your kids." Take care of yourself first so you are in a position of strength and can help her through this very difficult situation. My heart truly goes out to your family.</p>

<p>Once a year there's a thread that compels me to comment, even though every sinew cries "None of your business!!!" For 2008, this thread is the one. </p>

<p>I got a few of these calls from D, and they fell into one of two categories: (a) some things were temporally frustrating her, and she just needed a sympathetic ear; or (2) there was something desperately wrong that she couldn't address on her own. Even in retrospect, telling the difference between these calls (at the time they were made) was very difficult.</p>

<p>Heron, I can't tell from information provided which category your D's calls might fall into. But the fact that the calls have continued for a period beyond what most people would deem "temporal" suggests it worthwhile to, as hmom5 suggests, expend some resources to identify and address the underlying issues. JMHO -- feel free to ignore it.</p>

<p>Heron, please get a counselor for YOU. I have done that and have found that it really helps to discuss the issues with someone who is experienced in this area and not emotionally involved. It really puts another perspective on the situation. It is difficult to tell when I am enabling, when I am being a normal mom, when I am coddling, when I am being irrational. The emotions too often cloud the issue.</p>

<p>I can tell you that with me there came a point with one of my boys and his issues, I had to have a talk that maybe college is not the thing for him right now, and let's discuss some alternatives. I think that was a first step to get him to realize that maybe mom won't do anything in the world to make this work. THere is a point where it is not worth the pain of staying in a place a person cannot stand, cannot cope.</p>

<p>Thank you all. You have given me much to think about. I appreciate the support and the suggestions and the honesty, and oldfort I don't think you were harsh at all. Too many good ideas (and caring pushes towards getting help for myself) to thank you each personally, but I do thank you, every one.</p>

<p>Heron, I have been following your various threads and am so sorry for your troubles! You really do need to reconsider sending her to school next semester to be with the boy. I know in a prior thread you said while she was crashing, he was thriving. Is she over-romanticizing what life would be like with him at that college? Is he just as serious about her? If she should go there and then, heaven forbid, they break up, she is back to square one. No one's happiness should depend so heavily on another person. She needs to step back and learn how to make herself happy, because ultimately, that is the only person who can make her happy. I keep you in my prayers!</p>

<p>This is such a difficult situaion, Heron, and I really do feel for you. I am concerned that even if your D should get exactly what she wants, it could be a major problem because things do change and are not ever going to be exactly the way one wants them to be. Those who cannot swing with these changes have a problem and if severe enough can cause some heavy duty issues. I am hoping that this is a mood thing, a maturity phase, for your daughter, but if she is getting stuck to long in this rut, it needs to be worked out before you start scampering and spending your time, life, money, happiness trying to give her exactly what she wants which can just feed this entitlement feeling more. I don't have the answers for you. I am struggling ever so hard with my older ones who are having a rough road to independence and adulthood. I made and am probably making a lot of mistakes with them. They are just so different from me that I just don't know what the right way is to handle their situations. Not at all what I expected. So I am trying to learn how to do the least harm to them, to others and to myself. Sometimes that is the best we can strive to do. Much hope, many prayers, and cyberhugs to you.</p>

<p>Heron- hugs to you. This has been a rotten way for you to begin your empty-nesting.</p>

<p>I have three practical suggestions: </p>

<p>1- you need a counselor/therapist as the others have suggested. It's often worth the $125 or whatever the session costs just to have a brief period where the topic is you and not all the other people you're holding up. The therapist may or may not help you solve your parenting issues, but just getting someone who listens to your piece of this puzzle will be worth every penny.</p>

<p>2-Try to find a time of day when your D is not frazzled and exhausted, and explain the following:
We love you. We support you. We want you to be happy and to make a good transition to the next step in your life whatever that is going to be. It doesn't need to be college or this college but it will be a next step since HS is over and you need to find out what the next step is.</p>

<p>In our opinion, you should finish out the semester, as miserable as you are, so that when you evalute your options at least you've got one completed semester of college under your belt.</p>

<p>However, we respect the fact that you may decide that you're too miserable to do that- in which case, you need to withdraw, discuss the financial ramifications with the bursar, financial aid office, etc. and then pick a date that works for our work schedules and have us come pick you up and move you home.</p>

<p>3- if you choose to come home, you will be living here under our roof as an adult... not a post grad HS kid. So you will need to get a job, figure out whether you're still covered under our health insurance or get your own either from work or a private policy, and we will agree on a reasonable rent payment. If you will have time and the cash to visit the BF then great- but we will not be funding your travel or recreational activities or what not- adults pay for those things out of their disposable income.</p>

<p>We respect that you may see your situation differently than we do and we will always be here for you. So your choice is to tough it out at college until you figure out Plan B, or to come home and work while you figure out Plan B. We will not be funding your next college experience until you've identified the reasons why Plan A didn't work and have come up with a good solution to those issues either with a counselor's help or on your own.</p>

<p>And then I'd shut up and let her adult brain start to kick in. If she's decided that moving to be close to the BF is the answer to her problems, then she needs a serious reality check. And you need outside support to let you know that you are not a bad parent by refusing to bail her out every time she decides she's made a mistake and needs a do-over.</p>

<p>There are lots of emotionally healthy and successful people who had rocky transitions to college or work or military or whatever they did at age 18 or 19.... she has lots of company. But don't help foster the illusion that there's a perfect college or perfect man or perfect anything out there and if she can only find it her life will be perfect as well.</p>

<p>Blossom, what a great post. I would have liked to have written it.</p>

<p>
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My advice is not exactly going over well, these days.

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</p>

<p>Remember how you resisted giving advice about whether or not to go to this college? That's the better approach imo. Listen, restate her feelings nonjudgmentally to show her that you understand, but avoid specific advice whenever possible. help her to see what her choices are, what the ramifications of each choice might be, and then allow and expect her to make her own decision whenever possible.</p>

<p>If she comes home on your instructions, then she might say that every bad thing that happens at home is your responsibility--and she's missing another chance to begin to take more responsibility for herself.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No one's happiness should depend so heavily on another person. She needs to step back and learn how to make herself happy, because ultimately, that is the only person who can make her happy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Great wisdom from mizzou-mom. What about asking D how she proposes to make herself happy (without relying on bf), or at least make herself better able to cope when unhappy? It would be perfectly reasonable imo to expect to see progress in this area before agreeing to finance further college education.</p>

<p>I agree with the others who say that a good counselor can be a great help to you.</p>

<p>I believe the D skipped a grade(s) and is on the young side, all the more reason not to rush into another college.</p>

<p>Heron-I hope you had a restful night.</p>

<p>I, too, love blossom's post. My DD also had a rocky start her freshman year. She was at her first choice school, but that didn't seem to matter. She was constantly complaining about her roommate and how she "had no friends." When I went to Parents Weekend she had lost 15 lbs. She seemed determined to transfer at the end of the first semester. The informational packets from schools started to arrive at home. I listened for awhile, and suggested she see a counselor at school. I stopped engaging her and gave her a few of blossom's suggestions. " She could come home, but....she would have to handle this on her own....these are her options if she is not going to attend college." By Thanksgiving(and down what looked like another 10 lbs) she seemed to turn the corner. She still remembers what a tremendous adjustment this was. She is now in her 2nd post college job. She is always saying, "If I made it through my first semester freshman year, I can make it through this!!" This is a time of tremendous change and it is not easy for some of our children. I found that my first child going off to college had the most difficulty, the second had some minor issues and the last just turned said, "See ya!"</p>

<p>I have only one thing to add to Blossom's post. In addition to the conversation outlined, give DD, and keep one yourself, a written copy of those points.</p>

<p>After reading Mizzou-mom's post, I thought I'd tell more of my friend's story for what it's worth.</p>

<p>Her son had ongoing issues for years--very needy, lot's of drama-- and when it was time to apply to college needed to be dragged kicking and screaming because none that anyone suggested was going to meet all of his needs. His parents and counselor made his list and I'm fairly certain his father all but wrote the application. They were going to put down deposits at 3 schools because son could not make up his mind until learning that was not allowed. It was touch and go each and every day as the start of freshmen year approached and he even wanted to return home on drop off day. </p>

<p>The miserable phone calls were never ending and my friend, an incredibly intelligent woman, got worn down and wasn't functioning. Her son is also very intelligent and knows how to pull every string. Against everyone's advice including her husband's, she let him come home about a month into his first term. </p>

<p>Things were no better at home. He hated the jobs he qualified for and felt awful about lagging behind his friends. He decided he would be happy if he could just go to the college his high school girlfriend was attending. </p>

<p>Long story short, HS girlfriend had spent a year at the college and had friends and activities. He was distraught when the way he thought life would be with her at this college was not as he had imagined. She was horrified at his neediness and tried to break up with him. He fell apart, threatened suicide and stalked her. </p>

<p>In hindsight my friend can't believe that she went along with what her son wanted but sees now that she was so warn down she was in a mode where she could do nothing but try to put out every fire instead of addressing the cause of the ongoing inferno.</p>

<p>There is often a pathology involved when a young person has so much difficulty with every decision and are certain that other choice would have been the one that made them happy. All we want as parents is for them to be happy so we are prone to going along with anything they suggest rather than pulling back far enough to see what's really going on.</p>

<p>Been there done that.... I remember a book my d found MOST helpful in addition to instruction on how to Relax and reducethe anxiety attacks she woul d have.... Feeling Good , don't remember the author. but it is well known. She carried it with her for a year and loved it....helped her get over the hump.</p>

<p>Hmom5, that is exactly what I envisioned might happen when the D got to the boyfriend's school! Well, not the stalking part, but him not understanding her neediness and breaking up over it. I am sorry for everyone's sleeplessness over these things.....I also found it interesting she graduated earlier than usual....there is a thread on here wondering if this is a good idea....I am sure each child is different, but a girl on my D's floor skipped her senior year and she was emotionally not ready for college and got into a lot of bad behaviors including anorexia, depression and partying...and before anyone bites my head off, I am sure this is just one side and many are well adapted...</p>

<p>I knew a young lady who went to a great private college that seemed like a great fit for her. ALL of her friends went to State U instead, and that was just something she could not get over. She visited friends at State U and all she did was belly ache about how much better it was there and how loved she was there and no one like her at her school. She was able to transfer to State U mid year after making her parents miserable all first semester with tearful phone calls, depression, you name it. She was on special student status that term and did not have university housing as she was coming into the system mid year. </p>

<p>She was every bit as miserable and upset there. She blamed everything on the facts that she transferred mid year and missed out on first term, and that she was not in the freshmen dorms. It was pretty clear where the problem was. She simply could not cope with anything being outside of expectations. She had selected the first college her self which was expensive, selective and was sure that was going to be the right choice and when things did not turn out as expected, she blamed the environment. She was so sure everyone was so happy and all was so perfect at State U and horrible at her school. Turned out not so. </p>

<p>Well, her friends quickly got tired of her. As a weekend guest, she was ok , but was very tiresome with complaining and the sad face all of the time and they had grown whereas she had not. She did not make it through her second term, came home and is now going through counseling and taking a course or two at a local school and working. Just heard that after 2 years she is contemplating returning to her initial college and to give it a true try. It has been a tough road for her and her family as she has had some severe mood disorders and depression that needed to be heavily addressed.</p>

<p>In HS, your day is laid out for you, every one has breaks together- nutrition/snack, lunch, etc. Every one shares ECs, football games, etc Most kids find some one to hang with, even if your kid is high maintenance, they are surrounded by others and have group fun.</p>

<p>It seems like going off to college really brings issues to the fore, kids have all different schedules, no one nesc lunches together, you choose your ECs, people choose who to be with. A needy person is too much of a burden for any other student who may be adjusting well and doing well, but is still going through tons of adjustment.</p>

<p>Needy people also tend to think it is going great for every one else, every one else is happy, it is only them who miss the mark. All kids are adjusting, all kids have struggles, the needy kids sometimes have very unrealistic expectations and do not know how to deal with the disappointment that is reality.</p>

<p>Might as well learn this now, life will continue to disappoint every one at times, learning that it is normal and learning to cope is helpful!</p>

<p>Feeling Good, the mood therapy book, is a cognitive therapy book and very good.
David Burns is the author.</p>

<p>I have followed this story from a distance. What a wringer you've gone through Heron!</p>

<p>My3Sons post on page one pretty much sums up my thoughts. Think back to the original presenting issue: she lost her excitement for the dream college. At least that's how you understood it at the time, and other posters as well. Looking back, SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE AT COLLEGE AT ALL!! You wrote at one point she wanted to take a year off, work, and spend time with her boyfriend. At some point in this process, unbeknownst to you, she and her boyfriend deepened their commitment, started making plans for a life together, and she realized that college doesn't fit into that picture! But she could not admit that to herself, or you, knowing what conflict and disappointment that would cause.</p>

<p>I think she's not open to enjoying her time at college right now... at least not enough of the time. She is sabbotaging herself so that she can get kicked out or drop out to go back to her original plan -- MOVE OUT, WORK, AND SPEND TIME WITH HER BOYFRIEND.</p>

<p>Well those are my thoughts. I think she needs a break from college. And I will pray for you Heron, because this is so much more than most parents go through with the new college experiece!</p>

<p>When I was at college, a young man we knew was suddenly visited by an old girlfriend that none of us knew about. She had quit college and moved in with the young man, and all of a sudden, he was out of circulation. They did marry in several years and she did finish college, some local college in the same area that she could do part time. She ended up going to law school and is now a successful attorney. The couple is going strong. So there are many routes to life.</p>